Player Discussion Evgeny Kuznetsov

[notDkristich]

Anyone have a theory of what sparked a turnaround... Did he decide to flip the switch?

I will share mine, yep the same one. I noticed about a month ago, a plethora of goals being scored in our super simple funnel offense. Barry changed the offense. And its not just on goals, I have seen a clear attempt to get pucks and players without the puck headed towards the net. And we are winning.

The exact same offense that kicked ass last year, before the blizzard. A President's grade offense. I think it's back. To hell with expecting Kuzy and Ovi to grind it out along the boards. A recipe for failure.

Hit the nail on the head. A large number of games this season there was a clear emphasis on board play with dump in chase to the corners. It clearly was not working, and was clearly not suited for the team.

Kuzzy's strength lies with his skating and he needs players driving to the net, not the boards to score.

 

[RandyHolt]

I think that's part of it but they're also executing at a faster pace and with more clear direction and understanding of what they're doing. They don't look like they're just going out and freelancing as much. The breakouts and passing are better and they seem more structured overall, which allows for things to be done up-tempo and without overthinking.

Based on some of what E4K said about the practice he attended I believe they may simply be practicing the right things and paying more attention to them.

Good post and likely all valid points. It may not be just one thing, but a combination of them.

But. Hockey is a simple enough sport, that a new coach can come in and in one day, implement a change so simple that it has an immediate and unmistakable positive effect. Can't Trotz? Coaches can change, it just seems they usually stay the course.

We know Trotz has drilled these guys on solid D to no end, and after missing the vaunted Jennings last year by one goal, we lead the league in goals against. Maybe he made his point, and decided to let them go have a little fun.

Time to go find that post by Hive about breakouts. George would be quick to tell us, offense starts on the backend with puck movers.

 

[g00n]

Good post and likely all valid points. It may not be just one thing, but a combination of them.

But. Hockey is a simple enough sport, that a new coach can come in and in one day, implement a change so simple that it has an immediate and unmistakable positive effect. Can't Trotz? Coaches can change, it just seems they usually stay the course.

We know Trotz has drilled these guys on solid D to no end, and after missing the vaunted Jennings last year by one goal, we lead the league in goals against. Maybe he made his point, and decided to let them go have a little fun.

Time to go find that post by Hive about breakouts. George would be quick to tell us, offense starts on the backend with puck movers.

IIRC e4k said they were working on breakouts, transition and I think 2 on 1s or something (2 man game at the least). These are all things we've seen improve recently.

All ships rise with the tide. The tighter they get as a group on these fundamental parts of the game the more they're all going to thrive. The plugger/grinder types are going to be more effective because they can support and be supported since players move their feet and get to the right spots. They also make the right TEAM decisions. Finesse guys benefit for some of the same reasons--especially knowing where guys are in order to make passes-- but also because it helps them find the space on the ice or the breakdowns in the defense.

Things go sideways when the freelancing starts or there's no system to play off of. Kuzy is probably the poster child for this effect. When guys are floating around doing whatever then there's nobody there for the bang-bang play he likes to make, so he has to hesitate and decide instead of just rolling with his gut.

When the effort (yes effort) by others is inconsistent then he never knows what's happening and he'll sometimes make the "selfish" play (dangling through 4 guys) when he has support, or try to make an impossible pass to someone who isn't ready or not quite doing what it takes to create that play.

Kuz needs everyone else to be following the script so he can riff off of it. The more consistent this team plays as a whole the better Kuznetsov will perform and produce.

 

[marcel snapshot]

Kuz needs everyone else to be following the script so he can riff off of it. The more consistent this team plays as a whole the better Kuznetsov will perform and produce.

That's a really nice point and it dovetails with RH and E4K's earlier posts about tweaking the system a bit to move away from putting pucks deep to corners and winning board battles versus crisper breakout, more puck possession into zone, and funneling pucks to net. When the "programmed loop" - i.e., the system - is more conservative and focuses more on putting the puck in good spots (i.e., surrendering the puck), Kuz can't be as effective.

And it feels like that's how Trotz decided to deal with the Penguins tempo advantage in last year's series: we can't match their pace, so put pucks deep and pound their supposedly suspect D. But the Pens D moved the puck better than we thought they could, and the Pens forwards were very responsible, very efficient and very quick about helping their D break the puck out. And the end result was we didn't have much possession, couldn't slow them down, and kind of neutered some of our high-end skill guys (like Kuz) by playing a style that requires winning 50/50 board battles to succeed.

The irony here is that Kuz got himself going with that 4-point game against Toronto, where we got down 2 goals on two occasions and had to move to a higher-risk, more attacking style. But then we played the BJs two nights later and played one of our best shut-down games of the year. But to me that was because of how aggressive we were on the puck. And then we played a pure Dale-like, Trotzky-type passive game against the Sens on Saturday, and then played a BJ's-like game against the Habs Monday.

My view is that it's great we can play these different styles - but my strong hope is that Trotz does not getting married to any one of them (like he did vs. Pens), but instead sees the virtue of this group's ability to play different ways.

One thing we do seem to be doing of late is playing aggressively to get the first goal - rather than playing conservatively not to give it up. Holtby's play is giving us the luxury to do this, but you also hope this is Trotz evolving a bit.

 

[g00n]

That's a really nice point and it dovetails with RH and E4K's earlier posts about tweaking the system a bit to move away from putting pucks deep to corners and winning board battles versus crisper breakout, more puck possession into zone, and funneling pucks to net. When the "programmed loop" - i.e., the system - is more conservative and focuses more on putting the puck in good spots (i.e., surrendering the puck), Kuz can't be as effective.

And it feels like that's how Trotz decided to deal with the Penguins tempo advantage in last year's series: we can't match their pace, so put pucks deep and pound their supposedly suspect D. But the Pens D moved the puck better than we thought they could, and the Pens forwards were very responsible, very efficient and very quick about helping their D break the puck out. And the end result was we didn't have much possession, couldn't slow them down, and kind of neutered some of our high-end skill guys (like Kuz) by playing a style that requires winning 50/50 board battles to succeed.

The irony here is that Kuz got himself going with that 4-point game against Toronto, where we got down 2 goals on two occasions and had to move to a higher-risk, more attacking style. But then we played the BJs two nights later and played one of our best shut-down games of the year. But to me that was because of how aggressive we were on the puck. And then we played a pure Dale-like, Trotzky-type passive game against the Sens on Saturday, and then played a BJ's-like game against the Habs Monday.

My view is that it's great we can play these different styles - but my strong hope is that Trotz does not getting married to any one of them (like he did vs. Pens), but instead sees the virtue of this group's ability to play different ways.

One thing we do seem to be doing of late is playing aggressively to get the first goal - rather than playing conservatively not to give it up. Holtby's play is giving us the luxury to do this, but you also hope this is Trotz evolving a bit.

I think the bold above along with what I said puts together the puzzle pieces regarding "what happened to Kuznetsov". In the regular season our system more or less turned to mush and in the playoffs he was made ineffective by what you describe.

Let's hope Trotz continues to evolve his approach and uses players to their strenghts as much as possible.

 

[twabby]

All of the above seems true specifically regarding an increased emphasis on transition play, but his deployment has also seemingly been optimized recently.

Given Kuznetsov's skills (transition, speed, odd-man rushes) it makes intuitive sense to deploy him with a defensive pairing that accentuates Kuznetsov's positives. He was mainly deployed with the Orlov-Carlson pairing when they were together earlier in the year to somewhat mixed to poor results, probably because the Orlov-Carlson pairing didn't really ever gel. Now he is being deployed mainly with Orlov-Niskanen and the results have been great. The eye test says they work as a functional whole and the numbers say the same thing:

Link to Kuznetsov's spider chart and a short explanation

When on the ice together, Kuznetsov and the Orlov/Niskanen pairing take about 64% of the score-adjusted shot-attempts. It's no surprise Kuznetsov has looked and produced better since the defensive pairings were changed back in the beginning of December. Prior to that, he was deployed mainly with Orlov and Carlson who had some mixed results and I think that impacted Kuznetsov's play (and vice-versa).

I'd continue deploying him primarily with Orlov/Niskanen since Kuznetsov's game isn't based on grinding it out in cycles, it's mainly based on transition IMO and that combination works well in the transition game.

 

[g00n]

All of the above seems true specifically regarding an increased emphasis on transition play, but his deployment has also seemingly been optimized recently.

Given Kuznetsov's skills (transition, speed, odd-man rushes) it makes intuitive sense to deploy him with a defensive pairing that accentuates Kuznetsov's positives. He was mainly deployed with the Orlov-Carlson pairing when they were together earlier in the year to somewhat mixed to poor results, probably because the Orlov-Carlson pairing didn't really ever gel. Now he is being deployed mainly with Orlov-Niskanen and the results have been great. The eye test says they work as a functional whole and the numbers say the same thing:

Link to Kuznetsov's spider chart and a short explanation

When on the ice together, Kuznetsov and the Orlov/Niskanen pairing take about 64% of the score-adjusted shot-attempts. It's no surprise Kuznetsov has looked and produced better since the defensive pairings were changed back in the beginning of December. Prior to that, he was deployed mainly with Orlov and Carlson who had some mixed results and I think that impacted Kuznetsov's play (and vice-versa).

I'd continue deploying him primarily with Orlov/Niskanen since Kuznetsov's game isn't based on grinding it out in cycles, it's mainly based on transition IMO and that combination works well in the transition game.

I don't think it's any surprise that 92 does better with players who look to shoot and/or go to the net compared to guys who play on the perimeter or defer. I also see 2 and 14 as savvy players who usually make good decisions and can probably be counted on to be in the right place at the right time while 9 is frequently pressing the play. Guys who hang back or may get pulled off for defensive responsibilities aren't going to mesh as well with Kuz.

 

[RandyHolt]

OK so I did some research on myself. I searched this forum for the word 'funnel', as I started posting that in GDTs when I saw a sign of our same presidents runaway kick ass offense from last fall. See for yourself, December 5th.

Now look at Kuzy's game logs before and after December 5th. Outside of 11/23 - its been crickets on the score sheet. Suddenly, the points came. And no, its not power play padded points.

I have been arguing Kuzy didn't forget how to score, that he didn't get figured out by all teams league wide, over night. Burned out, physically. No, I argued and will continue to argue, that Barry changed what was asked of him. All system stuff with an eye on everything else before scoring.

The timing is there, that this brand of offense suits Kuzy better / best.

I am glad to see Barry caved, if indeed the funnel offense is back.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

These aren't the droids you're looking for.


This just in, hockey teams make system tweeks pretty much weekly, maybe more often depending on their given opponent that day.


Kuzy is performing better. Confidence makes all the difference in the world. Whatever the reasons (yes they're likely multiple things), I'm just happy he's playing well. This team is sunk with him playing at the level of last years playoffs.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That's a really nice point and it dovetails with RH and E4K's earlier posts about tweaking the system a bit to move away from putting pucks deep to corners and winning board battles versus crisper breakout, more puck possession into zone, and funneling pucks to net. When the "programmed loop" - i.e., the system - is more conservative and focuses more on putting the puck in good spots (i.e., surrendering the puck), Kuz can't be as effective.

And it feels like that's how Trotz decided to deal with the Penguins tempo advantage in last year's series: we can't match their pace, so put pucks deep and pound their supposedly suspect D. But the Pens D moved the puck better than we thought they could, and the Pens forwards were very responsible, very efficient and very quick about helping their D break the puck out. And the end result was we didn't have much possession, couldn't slow them down, and kind of neutered some of our high-end skill guys (like Kuz) by playing a style that requires winning 50/50 board battles to succeed.

The irony here is that Kuz got himself going with that 4-point game against Toronto, where we got down 2 goals on two occasions and had to move to a higher-risk, more attacking style. But then we played the BJs two nights later and played one of our best shut-down games of the year. But to me that was because of how aggressive we were on the puck. And then we played a pure Dale-like, Trotzky-type passive game against the Sens on Saturday, and then played a BJ's-like game against the Habs Monday.

My view is that it's great we can play these different styles - but my strong hope is that Trotz does not getting married to any one of them (like he did vs. Pens), but instead sees the virtue of this group's ability to play different ways.

One thing we do seem to be doing of late is playing aggressively to get the first goal - rather than playing conservatively not to give it up. Holtby's play is giving us the luxury to do this, but you also hope this is Trotz evolving a bit.

Great post. They play somewhat differently based upon the opponent often times. As for your concerns, I think Trotz by design is changing it up a lot. In part to keep the players engaged and UNcomfortable, in part to adjust to the incoming opponent's play style and own system and in part to know they can pull these strings in the playoffs with success.

 

[RandyHolt]

This just in, hockey teams make system tweeks pretty much weekly, maybe more often depending on their given opponent that day.

...

Kuzy is performing better.... at what specifically... Barry's grind'em down system?

IIRC you implied he just needed to play better, that the problems were his own doing, and he had to resolve it himself.

This just in. A tweak is a fine adjustment. Employing a completely different approach on how to score/win games, is not a tweak. I saw last years offense suddenly re-appear. And since then, we are on a near presidents pace, exactly like we were the last time Barry ran that same offense. And Kuzy picked up right where he left off

Finally, after 11 months, we are back!

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

At hockey! Pucks are finally going in for he and his linemates.

I just feel like proclamations about this being largely related to some magical system tweak are largely exaggerated. Game plans, tweaks, strategies, whatever you want to call them changes happen ALL THE TIME. And yes, imo the problem was largely between the ears.

As you said nobody suddenly figured out how to neutralize him, nobody suddenly taught him to start making bad passes, over passing or refusing to shoot. That's certainly not a system change. I see a player growing in confidence and finally executing. If this wasn't a problem that lasted across 2 seasons I might buy a downtick in performance due to his role in the system. Unless you're saying a player of that caliber isn't smart enough and talented enough to adjust and eventually do what he's good at? I'm not buying that. Did Trotz design the one uber talent killing system that an elite player can't have success in? I'm not buying that either.

I feel like you're working hard to create something to pat yourself on the back about though that's for sure lol....if so, well good job little buddy.

 

[Stewie G]

Perhaps all of the earlier "game plans, tweaks, strategies, whatever you want to call them changes" were ineffective. Perhaps they finally hit on a "magical" one that disproportionately affected Kuzy's game. Just like Nylander fell off a cliff once the team moved from an east-west to a north-south game, one player can't just find success by "eventually doing what he's good at" when no one else on the team is on the same page.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah maybe...it's not like he was skating left when everyone else was skating north! Nylander was an aging guy. Not the same thing IMO as a guy just playing well below par for his talent. Reeks of confidence issues and when you combine that with comments we've read from people around the Caps saying he came down on himself exceptionally hard, you have a guy wilting under the pressure. Good things happen and that pressure is gone immediately. If this comes down to the Caps having to play a certain way for one guy to be successful, it's not going to last long IMO, because changes will need to happen, strategies will change based upon matchups and players have to learn to adjust to these things. That's why I suspect and also hope it was mostly confidence and pressure. If a world class player can't adapt to a system or strategy, I'm concerned.

 

[RandyHolt]

Instead of trying to win games late by tiring out the opposition D, we are trying to score early in games. I think I read that Barry said we are trying to score first... more. Am I the only one seeing more passes and shots toward goal early in shifts?

Regardless, the changes I am seeing are bigger than Kuz. Kuz doesn't pitch shutouts. Kuz doesn't stop Pizza's. Orlov is good again. Williams woke up, Bura too. Even Schmidt scored a goal. Lady Byng too. Those guys bust their humps, they aren't a part of the loafer brigade. They are storming the net. The players didn't change.

The system did.

Watch for us driving the net aggressively against Pitt. Lord knows we can't hit their Dmen and grind away. Its better to man up and drive them and the puck into their net.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I bet if you asked Trotz, they're always trying to score first. As with any good streak, things start going your way. Alan May after a bad period is almost always harping on them not shooting. That's been going on for years with this core. Get pucks on net and good things happen. It's about as old of a concept as you can find in Hockey. Execution is occurring at a better rate now as a team. Things will cool off and it won't be because they changed back.

 

[Jags]

Instead of trying to win games late by tiring out the opposition D, we are trying to score early in games.

Everyone on the ice is trying to score all the time, start to finish. Having success early is simply great execution while everyone's fresh.

Regardless, the changes I am seeing are bigger than Kuz. Kuz doesn't pitch shutouts. Kuz doesn't stop Pizza's. Orlov is good again. Williams woke up, Bura too. Even Schmidt scored a goal. Lady Byng too. Those guys bust their humps, they aren't a part of the loafer brigade. They are storming the net. The players didn't change.

The system did.

Here I agree 100%.

CCF has a point that if adjusting pieces ever-so-slightly can be the difference between Kuznetsov soaring or sucking, people will catch on and he'll be easy to disrupt for long stretches of time.

But you're right. It's way more than just Kuznetsov playing better lately. Damn near everyone is. MoJo's been quieter, but still playing well. The D pairs, outlets, overall transition play, and especially passing in general have all been better lately. WAY more pace and one-touch accuracy, creating space and much higher quality scoring chances. More and better shots from the point, D jumping up effectively.

As you said, it's system-wide.

The notion that it's just confidence or "puck luck" or attitude or other spooky nonsense folks like to point to when they can't explain something is just lack of interest in the conversation. Yeah, a guy does just need to play better, but there's no question that it's easier for him when everyone else is where they're supposed to be, doing what they're supposed to do.

Figuring out those "wheres" and "whats" is coaching and accountability. Preferring the armchair eye test to analysis is fine, but saying "he's just been better at hockey lately" is just demonstrating that you don't really care why or how. It doesn't mean there is no why or how...

 

[LastWordArmy]

During the 2015-16 season, Capitals forward Evgeny Kuznetsov had an outstanding year. In all 82 games played, Kuznetsov tallied 20 goals and 77 points. He had a total of 193 shots on net and an average shooting percentage of 10.4 percent. The season was a special one for the Chelyabinsk native and proved that the his future in the NHL was bright.

Fast forward to this season. Washington has played 40 games, just one shy of marking the halfway point of the season. Kuznetsov has scored five goals and 22 helpers, for a total 27 points. He has 79 shots and a shooting percentage of 6.4 percent. He is projected to finish at about 55 points this season, 22 shy of last year, a year when he led the entire Capitals team in points. The problem? He’s not shooting the puck as much as he would like. Last season, he averaged 2.35 shots per game, whereas this year he is averaging 1.95 shots per game. It is obvious that he likes to pass the puck and set up teammates for goals, his assist count established that. However, he needs to start being more selfish.

Read More

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/01/10/evgeny-kuznetsov-offensive-spark/

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

They're executing. They're playing well as a team. If you don't think success breeds confidence, not much more reason to carry on reasonable discussions. If you don't see the swagger that has returned with his confidence, you're blinded by stats based logic.

What's more likely malarkey or spooky nonsense is suggesting some largely unnoticeable system change magically made him/them great again. I mean if you could show they completely overhauled their entire system and suddenly boom, yeah fine, but it feels like they would be discussing this on Comcast, we would be hearing of these incredible fortune changing systems changes, and unless I missed it, we're hearing very little suggesting that from the people who cover the team. I think sure some changes may have occurred as they do any large number of times during the season, but more so, guys are playing better as individuals. Lines and defensive pairs are gelling. When they fall off, maybe even struggle, and they likely will some, I doubt it will be because Trotz screwed up and broke the system again. There are lot of things imo contributing to the team success right now.

 

[g00n]

Trotz has been telling Kuz to shoot more and he's been listening

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...z-encouraging-evgeny-kuznetsov-to-shoot-more/


Some talk with Trotz and Kuz about being too risky and complex vs simplifying and getting everyone on the same page

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-balance-creativity-and-good-decision-making/


Didn't even realize these quotes were out there so yeah, backs up the eye test.

 

[Jags]

They're executing. They're playing well as a team. If you don't think success breeds confidence, not much more reason to carry on reasonable discussions. If you don't see the swagger that has returned with his confidence, you're blinded by stats based logic.

What's success? Wins, shots, goals, points, and so on, right? There's stats for that. I'm not a stat nut, but yeah, all of those things are quantifiable. Unless you want to argue that the swagger and confidence comes from having his Wheaties or a hair toussle and an "Attaboy!" from the coach, the actual causes are things you can measure, point to, and talk about.

And discussion is kind of why we're here. So again, if you have no interest in that conversation, great. Don't participate. Mocking analysis of that success with empty statements -- "He's better at hockey lately! He's been bucked up! He's just got more swagger because better hockey!" -- is just inviting people to not post.

And boy won't that make for a fun discussion forum?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Pierre "Kuznetsov has really elevated his game".

Thanks for the validation Pierre...lol.

 

[RandyHolt]

Am I taking crazy pills and the only one seeing cycling nearly totally abandoned? I saw hardly any dumps, nor any armPitt dmen lined up last night.

All lines now try to score off the rush like professional hockey players should. If nothing is there, they go back up top to the D man, looking to.... you guessed it, funnel pucks to the net.

Kuz has had a heavy piano lifted off his back. Heavy being a key word there. No more board work mandated before trying to score.

 

[g00n]

Am I taking crazy pills and the only one seeing cycling nearly totally abandoned? I saw hardly any dumps, nor any armPitt dmen lined up last night.

All lines now try to score off the rush like professional hockey players should. If nothing is there, they go back up top to the D man, looking to.... you guessed it, funnel pucks to the net.

Kuz has had a heavy piano lifted off his back. Heavy being a key word there. No more board work mandated before trying to score.

They're weaving instead of cycling, as if they were in 3 on 3 OT. Get it off the boards asap and get it moving in a weave and look for opportunities.

Which fits Kuz perfectly.

 

[Calicaps]

They're weaving instead of cycling, as if they were in 3 on 3 OT. Get it off the boards asap and get it moving in a weave and look for opportunities.

Which fits Kuz perfectly.

This, but they also had a more conventional but high-zone cycle going against... one of MTL or OTT. They are... dare I say it... adjusting.