Prospect Info: Everything Swedish Part 2

[Pavels Dog]

How does that disagree with anything I just said?!?!

I said his shot is weak and not NHL level, and people jumped all over me as usual. He's gonna be fun to watch but if you expect him to light the lamp, you'll be disappointed.

He's not supposed to be a goalscorer. That's a bonus, like Lidström laying a big hit.

Seider's greatest assets are his intelligence, physicality, and passing.

 

[Gniwder]

His slap shot is his weak point. His wrist shot is fine. 7 goals in the SHL this year in 40 games is pretty solid. I think he should be able to consistently find the 8-12 goal range in the NHL if he can get his volume up.

That's actually part of my point....

I'm thrilled with what all of the prospects are doing in the SHL, but that may or many not translate to the NHL. How many points did Brome have last season? Or even this season?

Now look at his NHL stats.

I'll be happy if none of the prospects suck that bad, it is the most extreme example of things not translating.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

That's actually part of my point....

I'm thrilled with what all of the prospects are doing in the SHL, but that may or many not translate to the NHL. How many points did Brome have last season? Or even this season?

Now look at his NHL stats.

I'll be happy if none of the prospects suck that bad, it is the most extreme example of things not translating.

How old is brome and how long has he played there? Come on man.

brome’s rookie shl season he had like 20 points in 50 games. AND he was 22 brome was barely there when he was the age these kids are.

 

[Gniwder]

How old is brome and how long has he played there? Come on man.

The fact that he's prime hockey age (26), doesn't that mean he should be scoring more, not less? Age becomes a factor as far as if he's worth the time and effort to develop into an NHL player. It looks like Stevie has decided he's not worth it.

The prospects are young so they're bound to improve, but the game may not translate in the first season or two. That is what I said earlier. It's a big jump from the SHL to NHL.

 

[Pavels Dog]

How old is brome and how long has he played there? Come on man.

brome’s rookie shl season he had like 20 points in 50 games. AND he was 22 brome was barely there when he was the age these kids are.

Actually watching the games, I didn't find Bromé very impressive either. Definitely nowhere near Berggren/Seider.
I was actually surprised how good he looked when he went over to NHL. Looked faster on small ice. Hasn't been effective but I don't think he's a good example. He could also get into a groove if he keeps getting chances. I hope people don't give up on Bergy/Seider/etc. if they don't tear the league up in the first 20 games.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

The fact that he's prime hockey age (26), doesn't that mean he should be scoring more, not less? Age becomes a factor as far as if he's worth the time and effort to develop into an NHL player. It looks like Stevie has decided he's not worth it.

The prospects are young so they're bound to improve, but the game may not translate in the first season or two. That is what I said earlier. It's a big jump from the SHL to NHL.

The point of my comment was it took brome until he was 22 to make the shl and 26 to put up in his 4th season. How is that comparable to kids at 18-19 wrecking that league as rookies?

 

[ShippinItDaily]

That's actually part of my point....

I'm thrilled with what all of the prospects are doing in the SHL, but that may or many not translate to the NHL. How many points did Brome have last season? Or even this season?

Now look at his NHL stats.

I'll be happy if none of the prospects suck that bad, it is the most extreme example of things not translating.

I expect negative regression to the scoring rate of all the SHL standouts when they first start in the NHL. Seider would take a few seasons to become the goal threat that I'm hopeful of in my projection.

As far as Brome is concerned, I don't know how much to look at his case in a vacuum. Certainly his scoring rate has been putrid, but that is also the case for almost all the players on this team in comparison to their historical NHL rates.

 

[Gniwder]

The point of my comment was it took brome until he was 22 to make the shl and 26 to put up in his 4th season. How is that comparable to kids at 18-19 wrecking that league as rookies?

The fact that scoring in the SHL doesn't always correlate to scoring in the NHL isn't based on age.

Vrana spent 1.5 seasons in the AHL after 3 SHL seasons then managed 6 pts in 21 games his first NHL season. He started putting up points in his 3rd NHL season.

I'm hoping all of the prospects wind up being NHL players, but it's gonna take time.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

The fact that scoring in the SHL doesn't always correlate to scoring in the NHL isn't based on age.

Vrana spent 1.5 seasons in the AHL after 3 SHL seasons then managed 6 pts in 21 games his first NHL season. He started putting up points in his 3rd NHL season.

I'm hoping all of the prospects wind up being NHL players, but it's gonna take time.

Vrana barely scored in the SHL. His season high was 24 points in 44 games

I don’t expect these guys to walk into the nhl as top players, but these comparable are terrible. None of these guys have had the success we are seeing.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Vrana barely scored in the SHL. His season high was 24 points in 44 games

I don’t expect these guys to walk into the nhl as top players, but these comparable are terrible. None of these guys have had the success we are seeing.

Vrana scored at a decent rate for his age, and has become a good NHL player. So it's not a bad comparable; doing well in the SHL often means a good chance of doing well in the NHL.

 

[Gniwder]

Vrana barely scored in the SHL. His season high was 24 points in 44 games

I don’t expect these guys to walk into the nhl as top players, but these comparable are terrible. None of these guys have had the success we are seeing.

I compiled a list of SHL players in the NHL a few pages back, I'm not gonna bother to do it again.

You're looking at numbers, not skill level and it's obvious. I would be elated if Berggren's numbers translated to the NHL, but I'm not sure if his game does or not. What I do know is that he can think and pass while skating full speed.

Time will tell, so there's no point in arguing anyways.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

He's not supposed to be a goalscorer. That's a bonus, like Lidström laying a big hit.

Seider's greatest assets are his intelligence, physicality, and passing.

He actually has a great shot. Most of you are just stuck in the fact that he only scored 2 goals for the Griffs last year. I remember people saying that he is good defensively and a great physical presence but he won't provide any offense for a few months after we drafted him mostly based on his stats in Germany
Even the best goal scoring d-men rarely score more than 1 goal every 5 games. All goal scorers go through stretches where they score a lot more and a lot less than they average over a course of a season. That is why it not uncommon to see d-men score more than twice as many or half as many goals that they scored the previous year.
Cholowski scored his first 7 goals as a pro in his less than 50 games with the Wings but he didn't score his first goal with the Griffs until his 43rd game with them which is only 6 more games than Seider played with them. Seider was much younger though.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I compiled a list of SHL players in the NHL a few pages back, I'm not gonna bother to do it again.

You're looking at numbers, not skill level and it's obvious. I would be elated if Berggren's numbers translated to the NHL, but I'm not sure if his game does or not. What I do know is that he can think and pass while skating full speed.

Time will tell, so there's no point in arguing anyways.

He is tenacious and gritty as well. He has scored at a similar ppg pace to Brome's before coming to Detroit but of course he is younger and still developing. The Wings really need a playmaking puck distributor.

 

[Gniwder]

He actually has a great shot.

Show me a video and change my mind. His hardest shot that you can find.

He is tenacious and gritty as well. He has scored at a similar ppg pace to Brome's before coming to Detroit but of course he is younger and still developing. The Wings really need a playmaking puck distributor.

Puck distributor is of no use when nobody knows how to shoot. Robby Fabbri leads this team in goals now at 9. This team needs a goal scorer and defense of course.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Berggren is now tied for 2nd most assists in a season by an SHL player aged 20 or younger.

1. Henrik Sedin (37)
2. Elias Pettersson (32)
2. Jonatan Berggren (32)
3. Henrik Zetterberg (31)

He's still got a game left against Farjestad in 3 days. 6 assist night incoming!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Show me a video and change my mind. His hardest shot that you can find.



Puck distributor is of no use when nobody knows how to shoot. Robby Fabbri leads this team in goals now at 9. This team needs a goal scorer and defense of course.

That's a pretty good one.

Oh, and here's a goal he scored on a slapshot.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Puck distributor is of no use when nobody knows how to shoot. Robby Fabbri leads this team in goals now at 9. This team needs a goal scorer and defense of course.

We have better goalscorers than playmakers. We have zero players that are good at running a powerplay for example. Team is in desperate need of guys that can distribute the puck.

 

[Gniwder]

That's a pretty good one.

Oh, and here's a goal he scored on a slapshot.

Short backswing and quick release but neither of those are NHL level shots.

Zadina's not scoring because his shot isn't good enough, and you think Seider is gonna score with that? SuperStaal and Nemeth have much harder shots, and of course Hronek, but I don't think murdering shin pads count for much.

We have better goalscorers than playmakers. We have zero players that are good at running a powerplay for example. Team is in desperate need of guys that can distribute the puck.

They need both. The team sucks.

At least the team will have one D capable of moving the puck soon.

I'm very curious to see how well Berggren and Johansson do.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

We have better goalscorers than playmakers. We have zero players that are good at running a powerplay for example. Team is in desperate need of guys that can distribute the puck.

Agreed. Mantha is shoot-first, Zadina is shoot-first, Fabbri is more of a shoot first guy, Larkin is shoot first (or should be, honestly...), Bertuzzi is an underrated playmaker IMO, but that isn't the role he plays on the top line, so he shoots. Hronek is more of a passer, but dmen generally are.

And then broad swathes of the roster don't even qualify as shoot first or pass first, because they do neither.

But, in terms of up and coming guys, we do have some: Veleno doesn't pass as much as he used to, but I'd still call him pass first. Raymond is pass-first, Berggren is definitely pass-first, Soderblom is shoot-first, Rasmussen is not just shoot-first but shoot-only, Neiderbach is pass-first, Seider, Johansson and Wallinder are pass-first for the most part, and Tuomisto is probably the only real shooter there. But maybe half of those guys are going to make an impact in the NHL, so we shouldn't bank on it.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Swedish Aftonbladet (biggest evening newspaper) experts selected their picks for various SHL awards, some notables:

Wennerholm:
- Jonatan Berggren 5th for league MVP

Abrahamsson:
- Seider #1 for Best D-man in the league
"He came in as a hurricane and has left a mark in the SHL that will be talked about when the german defender is an NHL-star. Reliable passer, tough, and a delicious skater"

Ros:
- Seider 5th for league MVP
"Rögle's Zaar [#2] and Seider. Check them out. Soon it's too late when they're in the NHL."

- Seider #1 for best D-man in the league
"Remember the first game I saw with Moritz last fall. He hadn't played a game in a long time, might have been jet-lagged and was new to the SHL with all that entails. Still he stood out. Not because of mistakes or anything. But because of maturity and skill. I'm happy to have seen him a year in the SHL. There's those who think he will be a new Captain for Detroit and maybe makes 60-70% of a Lidström and dominates the Red Wings defense the next 15 years."

Karlsson:
- Seider as 4th for League MVP
- Seider as #1 for best D-man in the league

Nilsson:
- Seider #1 for Best D-man in the league
"Most has been said about 19-year old Seider. I'll settle with: wow, feels like a complete big-time defender already."


Summary: 4/5 rank Seider as the best d-man in the league. 2/5 have him top 5 for overall league MVP.

(sidenote: Wennerholm is clueless, always has been.)

 

[lhsgolf19]

Seider and Johansson get started in their games in about 25 minutes

Also, Gelinas is back from his suspension so the dynamic duo is back together

 

[FabricDetails]

Man, really? I heard all the "arguably the best prospect not in the NHL" stuff but the #1 defenseman outside the NHL? That's quite lofty.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Man, really? I heard all the "arguably the best prospect not in the NHL" stuff but the #1 defenseman outside the NHL? That's quite lofty.

For most of the season save for a short 4 game stretch midway through and the first 3 or so games after coming back from injury Seider was dominating possession on the ice. 2nd most points by an under 20 defender in the SHL and 12th in defense scoring (despite playing 6 to 10 games fewer than those above him and would have likely finished between 3rd and 7th had he not missed those games with a shoulder injury), top 10 D in +/- and had amongst the best corsi/fenwick for much of the season.

The kid would be the best defenseman on Detroit right now.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Man, really? I heard all the "arguably the best prospect not in the NHL" stuff but the #1 defenseman outside the NHL? That's quite lofty.

It’s not that lofty. Seider would be a good defenseman in the nhl right now, the only reason he’s not is because he’s a prospect. So if he’s the number 1 D prospect outside the nhl wouldnt a non prospect D that’s better than him already be in the league?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Insane game by Seider.. ~26 minutes played, physical and defensive monster, against the best team in the league.