Player Discussion Evander Kane - Part 4

[La Cosa Nostra]

37 goals his last 73 games. When was the last time the Sabres had a 30 goal scorer?5 years ago?

Considering this team pays Matt Moulson, Kyle Noshowso, and Zach Bogosian all 5 mil or more per season then Kane must be re-signed, at 6 even 6.5 per long term. Kane has been so much better then Sam Reinhart it isn't even funny. Reinhart should be the one to go not Kane. Kane is playing like a 6+ mil player. Reinhart is playing like a 2 mil per player and will expect to get paid 5+ mil per. No f***ing way. Move Reinhart, he isn't worth what he will want and has been a massive underachieving disappointment.

 

[Jim Bob]

37 goals his last 73 games. When was the last time the Sabres had a 30 goal scorer?5 years ago?

Considering this team pays Matt Moulson, Kyle Noshowso, and Zach Bogosian all 5 mil or more per season then Kane must be re-signed, at 6 even 6.5 per long term. Kane has been so much better then Sam Reinhart it isn't even funny. Reinhart should be the one to go not Kane. Kane is playing like a 6+ mil player. Reinhart is playing like a 2 mil per player and will expect to get paid 5+ mil per. No ****ing way. Move Reinhart, he isn't worth what he will want and has been a massive underachieving disappointment.

If Kane ends up top 10 in the NHL in goals this season, he's going to want a heck of a lot more than $6.5M per.

And Vegas might be willing to give it to him if Neal walks.

 

[sabrebuild]

37 goals his last 73 games. When was the last time the Sabres had a 30 goal scorer?5 years ago?

Considering this team pays Matt Moulson, Kyle Noshowso, and Zach Bogosian all 5 mil or more per season then Kane must be re-signed, at 6 even 6.5 per long term. Kane has been so much better then Sam Reinhart it isn't even funny. Reinhart should be the one to go not Kane. Kane is playing like a 6+ mil player. Reinhart is playing like a 2 mil per player and will expect to get paid 5+ mil per. No ****ing way. Move Reinhart, he isn't worth what he will want and has been a massive underachieving disappointment.

Spot on!

 

[Aladyyn]

Kane scored 30 goals once, 6 years ago. That was also the last time he had more than 43 points in a season.

 

[brian_griffin]

Kane reminds me a lot of Drew Stafford 7-8 years ago.

He is not a difference maker. Use the money on defense. Stay the course. Trade him for the highest offer. Preferably anything that can improve our defense.

If you're talking about Stafford's 40-goal pace injury-shortened pending-RFA season, then yes, I get your point. Otherwise, I think you're undervaluing Kane or "mis-remembering" (to use the Roger Clemens lexicon) Stafford. Love him, hate him, or lukewarm toward him, Kane's on-ice effort has always been WAY more consistent than Stafford's.

Yes, problem? 10% of Jack's contract is 1.1m. 10 for Jack is fair. 11.1 for Jack is far too much.

... oh also 10% of the cap is 7.5m. Is that nothing to you?

10% of a small number remains a small number. Regardless of whether it's metric or English.

37 goals his last 73 games. When was the last time the Sabres had a 30 goal scorer?5 years ago?

Considering this team pays Matt Moulson, Kyle Noshowso, and Zach Bogosian all 5 mil or more per season then Kane must be re-signed, at 6 even 6.5 per long term. Kane has been so much better then Sam Reinhart it isn't even funny. Reinhart should be the one to go not Kane. Kane is playing like a 6+ mil player. Reinhart is playing like a 2 mil per player and will expect to get paid 5+ mil per. No ****ing way. Move Reinhart, he isn't worth what he will want and has been a massive underachieving disappointment.

Put Kane with Reinhart. Best of both worlds.

 

[Jame]

37 goals his last 73 games. When was the last time the Sabres had a 30 goal scorer?5 years ago?

Considering this team pays Matt Moulson, Kyle Noshowso, and Zach Bogosian all 5 mil or more per season then Kane must be re-signed, at 6 even 6.5 per long term. Kane has been so much better then Sam Reinhart it isn't even funny. Reinhart should be the one to go not Kane. Kane is playing like a 6+ mil player. Reinhart is playing like a 2 mil per player and will expect to get paid 5+ mil per. No ****ing way. Move Reinhart, he isn't worth what he will want and has been a massive underachieving disappointment.

Reinhart's qualifying offer is 895k
He does not have arbitration rights

Are you worried about an offersheet for a player "playing like a 2 mil per player"?

Reinhart and Kane have nothing to do with one another (with regards to contract extensions). I'm amazed that the crowd was able to so quickly invent this narrative and pretend it's existed all along.

 

[brian_griffin]

Kane scored 30 goals once, 6 years ago. That was also the last time he had more than 43 points in a season.

Thank goodness most NHL GMs can pro-rate to 82 game seasons. And if they can't, the equipment manager's kids can do it for them.

 

[Jame]

Thank goodness most NHL GMs can pro-rate to 82 game seasons. And if they can't, the equipment manager's kids can do it for them.

Do the prorated goals help win games?

A player with a proven injury history, doesn't deserve the prorated treatment.

 

[Aladyyn]

Thank goodness most NHL GMs can pro-rate to 82 game seasons. And if they can't, the equipment manager's kids can do it for them.

With how much emphasis this fanbase puts on "actual production," I think it's important. Or are we doing double standards again?

 

[sabrebuild]

The history matters less to me than the play style. If you play like Kane in the nhl, you will get hurt.

 

[brian_griffin]

Do the prorated goals help win games?

A player with a proven injury history, doesn't deserve the prorated treatment.

With how much emphasis this fanbase puts on "actual production," I think it's important. Or are we doing double standards again?

That's what's going to make a high-end return in a trade difficult IMO. Maybe a GM will pro-rate the extension money, putting a hard line at say, $6M per, which I think is his current actual annual salary. I know SPCs beyond ELC can't have performance bonuses until age 35, so the carrot can't be there, but the stick, in terms of a lower AAV offer due to injury history, rationally could be used.

I don't think Kane is with BUF next year, regardless. It was mentioned last night game he's the longest-tenured NHL'er never to have played in the playoffs. Which is why it's a shame BUF is off to such a lackluster start because I think he'd run through a brick wall if the Sabres made the playoffs (and he wasn't injured in April).

 

[Gabrielor]

Indeed, all signs point to trading him, and it’s the best option. I just hope the return is good.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

The history matters less to me than the play style. If you play like Kane in the nhl, you will get hurt.

His hits per game have gone down significantly, he's learned I think that throwing his body everywhere will get him hurt often. This is good, we may actually start getting some healthy seasons from him:

hits per game:
13-14 2.74
14-15 3.21
15-16 2.63
16-17 1.55
17-18 2.06 (so far)

Obvious it's not just hits that lead to injuries, but hits reflect to some extend his slight change of style. Here's hoping that leads to him being healthier overall. For me injuries and his shooting rate are by far the biggest issues with him, anything else I either like or I am OK with.

 

[sabrebuild]

His hits per game have gone down significantly, he's learned I think that throwing his body everywhere will get him hurt often. This is good, we may actually start getting some healthy seasons from him:

hits per game:
13-14 2.74
14-15 3.21
15-16 2.63
16-17 1.55
17-18 2.06 (so far)

Obvious it's not just hits that lead to injuries, but hits reflect to some extend his slight change of style. Here's hoping that leads to him being healthier overall. For me injuries and his shooting rate are by far the biggest issues with him, anything else I either like or I am OK with.

As you said it’s more than hits, but perhaps as he ages that sense of recklessness will dim.

But the speed he skates with, without a bail out plan is in that same vein. The rib injury from last year is that type, and he has had a couple of similar plays this year that fortunately didn’t result in injury.

If we could lock him in for 6 million and had a coach that let him be the main guy on a line of his own, I’d be all for signing him, despite the warts. I just think with his current salary, age, etc, he is looking for at least 7 a year, most likely more if he gets to ufa.

 

[Team Cozens]

As you said it’s more than hits, but perhaps as he ages that sense of recklessness will dim.

But the speed he skates with, without a bail out plan is in that same vein. The rib injury from last year is that type, and he has had a couple of similar plays this year that fortunately didn’t result in injury.

If we could lock him in for 6 million and had a coach that let him be the main guy on a line of his own, I’d be all for signing him, despite the warts. I just think with his current salary, age, etc, he is looking for at least 7 a year, most likely more if he gets to ufa.

Kyle Turris - Center, just signed for 6 X 6.
I'd sign Kane for 5.5 x 6. MAX

 

[Aladyyn]

It's not just injuries. Signing a player completely reliant on his athletic ability long-term... Just not a good idea.

 

[sabrebuild]

Kyle Turris - Center, just signed for 6 X 6.
I'd sign Kane for 5.5 x 6. MAX

Is this a response based on your belief on the market and what he will get or based on just what you think he is worth to your team?

Cuz he ain’t taking a 250k raise based on his aav and a pay cut based on his actual salary this year.

 

[Jame]

Kyle Turris - Center, just signed for 6 X 6.
I'd sign Kane for 5.5 x 6. MAX

Players take discounts with contenders, not rebuilders

 

[Snippit]

Trading him and signing him are not two exclusive options, I hope everyone realizes.

Although I wouldn't be in favour of re-signing him in the off-season, there is legit zero reason not to trade him.

 

[dotcommunism]

Trading him and signing him are not two exclusive options, I hope everyone realizes.

Although I wouldn't be in favour of re-signing him in the off-season, there is legit zero reason not to trade him.

If they actually want to keep him long-term, they should just re-sign him rather than dick around with trading him and hoping to sign him in the off-season.

 

[valet]

Kane looked good last night. He was a lot more patient, and it looked to me like he was examining the ice from a higher cognitive position.

He still is what he is, but if he manages to add the wrinkle of calmness to his game that he did last night his value will increase, in the case of him re-signing or if he is traded.

 

[Snippit]

If they actually want to keep him long-term, they should just re-sign him rather than dick around with trading him and hoping to sign him in the off-season.

It's worth the risk for an extra first round pick

 

[cybresabre]

Kane looked good last night. He was a lot more patient, and it looked to me like he was examining the ice from a higher cognitive position.

You know, that does explain some things.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Reinhart's qualifying offer is 895k
He does not have arbitration rights

Are you worried about an offersheet for a player "playing like a 2 mil per player"?

Reinhart and Kane have nothing to do with one another (with regards to contract extensions). I'm amazed that the crowd was able to so quickly invent this narrative and pretend it's existed all along.

Ok Reinharts QO is 895k. Reinhart won't accept a QO, not a chance. So that only matters as far as securing his rights. He can still sign an offer sheet since he won't play for 895k.He will want at least 4 mil. Evander Kane is a better hockey player then Sam Reinhart. They aren't mutually tied together but it seems there is a new Ennis/Hodgson type debate where posters here are drawing sides in regards to Kane and Reinhart. Ennis sucks but at least Stokes and I were one of the only few to back the player still in the NHL not one who retired at 26.

Evander kane has scored 57 goals as a Sabre in 150 games. Matt Moulson has scored 35 goals his last 249 games as a Sabre. Considering this team has several 5+ mil per players who are garbage Evander Kane is easily worth 6.5 mil. The way Kane is treated around here is laughable. Absolutely zero respect for our leading goal scorer, point scorer, most physical player, best fighter and most consistent effort giving player. Evander Kane is not the problem. Sam Reinhart, Okposo, Moulson, Bogo, Risto, Girgs,Larsson etc are the problem right now. Kane, Eichel and Pominville are carrying this pathetic team. Without Kane, ya know the second best es goal scorer since Dec. 3 2015 this team would be even more atrocious and terrible then they already are.

But sure, lets trade Kane for a late first and a B prospect so we can hope guys like Fasching and Bailey and Baptiste become 10-15 goal scorers at best who needs a 25-30 goal legit power forward in his prime, let's get more picks and prospects. By the time we are contenders RoR will be in his 30s. And I'm sure that was definitely the plan right, acquire RoR and wait till his 7 year extension is almost up before we make the playoffs again.

 

[Jame]

Ok Reinharts QO is 895k. Reinhart won't accept a QO, not a chance. So that only matters as far as securing his rights. He can still sign an offer sheet since he won't play for 895k.He will want at least 4 mil.

You just told us he deserves no more than 2 million... so why is he asking for 4 million? Let's also note that you originally stated that Reinhart would ask for 5+.

On the one hand you say he's worth no more than 2 million, then in the other hand you make the argument that NHL GMs will offersheet him at 4 million (at the cost of a 1st and 3rd round pick).

Which is it? Make one argument. He's worth 2 or he's worth 4+.... not both

I'm not saying that Reinhart will accept 895k.... but he hardly has the leverage to get the 5+ million you originally suggested he would want.

Plenty of high 1st round players get bridged at 1.5-3.0

Sean Couturier got a 2 yr / 1.75 per bridge
hmmm speaking of Sean Couturier

Mika Zibanajed got a 2 yr / 2.65 bridge

There's been comparisons to Galchenyuk....
He got a 2 yr / 2.8 bridge

The only way Reinhart is getting in the 4.0 - 5.5 range is if he is signing a LONG term deal. And given how things have gone this year, what reason does Botts have to make that type of commitment?

Reinhart is going to get a 1 - 2 year bridge deal in the 2.0 - 3.0 range. Nothing more.

Evander Kane is a better hockey player then Sam Reinhart. They aren't mutually tied together but it seems there is a new Ennis/Hodgson type debate where posters here are drawing sides in regards to Kane and Reinhart. Ennis sucks but at least Stokes and I were one of the only few to back the player still in the NHL not one who retired at 26.

Yea, you and stokes nailed it on Hodgson's undiagnosed genetic disorder
How retired NHLer Cody Hodgson is giving back to the game he loves - Sportsnet.ca

Hey... let me know when you want to bust my balls again about Sean Couturier... you know, the guy I suggested trading the #2 (Reinhart) overall pick for (if we were to trade the pick).... he's now a 24 year old franchise center.

Evander kane has scored 57 goals as a Sabre in 150 games. Matt Moulson has scored 35 goals his last 249 games as a Sabre. Considering this team has several 5+ mil per players who are garbage Evander Kane is easily worth 6.5 mil.

Everyone here can look up basic stats, there's no need to regurgitate them. Everyone knows Kane scores goals.

Are you really using the argument of bad contracts to make the case for Kane?

The way Kane is treated around here is laughable. Absolutely zero respect for our leading goal scorer, point scorer, most physical player, best fighter and most consistent effort giving player. Evander Kane is not the problem. Sam Reinhart, Okposo, Moulson, Bogo, Risto, Girgs,Larsson etc are the problem right now. Kane, Eichel and Pominville are carrying this pathetic team. Without Kane, ya know the second best es goal scorer since Dec. 3 2015 this team would be even more atrocious and terrible then they already are.

It's less about Kane being part of the problem, and more about the basics of roster construction in a cap world.

But sure, lets trade Kane for a late first and a B prospect so we can hope guys like Fasching and Bailey and Baptiste become 10-15 goal scorers at best who needs a 25-30 goal legit power forward in his prime, let's get more picks and prospects. By the time we are contenders RoR will be in his 30s. And I'm sure that was definitely the plan right, acquire RoR and wait till his 7 year extension is almost up before we make the playoffs again.

Kane's played how many playoff games?