wow, he came 27th in the QMJHL in scoring. The most offensive junoir league in North America...yet ppl are praising him like he's Crosby on here
right, cuz the penguins are going to be a dynasty and all
Let the homers be homers lol he has talent, top notch speed, he DOESNT have will, toughness, creativity, or any hockey sense. he dropped that far for a reason.
Yep, that's it exactly. We're all homers for being happy that we drafted a guy @20 that was a top 10 pick in all the major scouting services. Then again, I'm sure you know more about his projections than the professional scouts that do this kind of guesswork for a living.
Corban
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Allright here is your full sentance from before...
Well I'm happy you think his demeanor sux, apparently our coaching staff along with our scouting staff thought otherwise.
Now to the other point. Yes playing with Sid can make just about anyone look pretty good, but if we can find a highly skilled winger to play along side him...we have hit the jackpot, they will be electric. Give me a player with more skill to play along side Sid, rather than some jabroni anyday.
What you might not be understanding is that the Penguins have "gritty" young guys in our system, and that is not one of our presing needs. But skilled forwards to play along side Sid/Evgeni/Jordan....thats what we need. Like I said before if Espo does not bust his a*s and as you say turns into a "soft" player in the playoffs, I will worry about that when we get there, we have some grit, the kid does not have to be a freaking Avery. Eitherway this was a GREAT pick for OUR team!
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
I'm actually going to come to Espo's defense for a second.
I don't think he DROPPED at all. By the end of the year, he was ranked in the middle of the 1st round. He only went 20th. It's not like he dropped to the 2nd round or even after like a guy like Mayorov. He was passed over by better players throughout the course of the year. Espo was not as good as he was once hyped and I think it's clear that there were a lot of players better than him in the draft this year.
Espo was picked in the latter half of the 1st round because he doesn't project to be anything more than a complimentary player. That's all. As far as I'm concerned, he went around right where he should have and the only reason we talk about how far he's somehow dropped is because of how hyped up it was on the TSN braodcast of the draft.
I don't think he DROPPED at all. By the end of the year, he was ranked in the middle of the 1st round. He only went 20th. It's not like he dropped to the 2nd round or even after like a guy like Mayorov. He was passed over by better players throughout the course of the year. Espo was not as good as he was once hyped and I think it's clear that there were a lot of players better than him in the draft this year.
Espo was picked in the latter half of the 1st round because he doesn't project to be anything more than a complimentary player. That's all. As far as I'm concerned, he went around right where he should have and the only reason we talk about how far he's somehow dropped is because of how hyped up it was on the TSN braodcast of the draft.
SteelCitySaviour
Registered User
I disagree with this statement...he doesnt project to be complimentary in the sense that most guys picked in the 20's project to be- ie second or third line type guys, players that chip in occassionally and compliment the stars of your team. Esposito fell because he's a boom or bust type player- he's either going to be a first line caliber guy, or hes not going to hack it at all...not much inbetween, because of his lack of "complimentary" skills. He doesn't backcheck with any enthusiasm, he can hit (was top two or third in the Q when you compared the ratio of points to ratio of hits given, and he had something like 11 hits in the playoffs..even though hits stats are subjective, he does throw the body around on occasion) but he's not a grinder, doesnt win battles in the corners, doesnt really do the little things that guys not on the top line must do to survive in the pros.
What he does do well is skate, shoot, and score. Playmaking is really a non-issue with this team, because hes going to be on Crosby's wing, Malkin's wing, or not at all. Those two are premier playmakers who love dishing the puck (Crosby) and lugging it up ice (Malkin), so Espo's relative lack of playmaking, even though its nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be, is really not a hinderance on this team since hes got amazing talent feeding him the puck in primo spots, which will play right to his strenghts.
He's a complimentary player in the way that Cheech is to Thornton, the way Kevin Stevens was to Mario back in the 90's...on this team, Espo is a complimentary piece because hes not going to be asked to be the focal point. I think his chances of being the "boom" player are much much much higher on the Penguins because theyve got players to compliment his strengths, and vice versa. The majority of the teams picking before 20 would have had much higher "bust" potential because he would have had the pressure to be THE guy on them. That doesnt mean that he projects as a complimentary piece, or that he'll be an all-star with pittsburgh, or that he wouldnt be a star somewhere else...the fit here was much better than any team picking before 20, hence the drop in my opinion.
But, long story short
, hes not projected as complimentary- hes either going to be a star, or hes not going to be at all.IMO, of course.
He has skills i'm not denying that but when i've watched him play he didn't seem all that willing to win battles. We all know he's talented but imo there is obviously something that turned so many teams off about him, sometimes the most talented player isn't always the best. I rather have a player with B skill but with good character and determination than a player with A skill but questionable character and little grit.
SteelCitySaviour
Registered User
I agree with you 100%...most of the time. However, with the way the Penguins are set up, especially for the foreseeable future, we're chock-full of high character, high intensity, super determination guys. Players like Crosby, Staal, Talbot, Armstrong, Recchi, Roberts, Ruutu...these are all guys who bust their tails every shift. So for the Pens, it made sense to draft a very skilled "floater", because we've go so many other guys that make up for that. Outside of Crosby, Staal, Malkin, and Christensen, there is no one approximately a legitimate scoring threat, one which a talent player like Esposito would provide.
For this team, he's perfect. For a lot of others, and pretty much all of the teams in front of us, he wasnt a good one. Which I guess is the crux of this discussion.
Yep, that's it exactly. We're all homers for being happy that we drafted a guy @20 that was a top 10 pick in all the major scouting services. Then again, I'm sure you know more about his projections than the professional scouts that do this kind of guesswork for a living.
The professional scouts who actually work for professional hockey teams don't count? Only the guys who have nothing to lose when making rankings for what amounts to a magazine?
le_sean
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2006
- 40,217
- 40,629
Dying Alive
Phil = 2x Champ
Apparently someone forgot to tell that to Ryan Malone.
The bottom line is this - if Esposito's attitude sucks, he will get it adjusted very quickly once he starts sharing the ice with Roberts, Recchi, Crosby, Armstrong, Orpik, Talbot, etc. And I promise you, Therrien will never put up with any crap, especially from a rookie. If he can't be a team guy, they'll trade him to someone who needs the scoring potential badly enough to overlook his character flaws. I don't think Pens fans are too concerned about it. It's not like we've got all of our hopes riding on this guy to be our franchise player. He was the most talented guy left on the board, so they took him.
WVP
Registered User
- Mar 22, 2004
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hototogisu
Poked the bear!!!!!
octopi
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2004
- 31,547
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Yep, legs and hands never seem too be working in conjunction, but he could sure move. Which goes to show speed=greatness not always.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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- 21,129
Say what you will about his determination and grit this season, but I think that if Hockey Canada deemed him worthy of captaining both the u17 and u18 teams the last couple of years (both to gold, btw), his character is fine.
If any team was able to take the risk it's the Pens I will say that. I just don't think it's a giant steal, it's not like Cherepanov where there are transfer issues.
Sometimes those things are popularity moves(I know this has happened in the NHL many times), if his character is fine then why did he drop so far? If he had + skill and + character then he should have went higher(and if that turns out to be the case there will be many teams with egg on their face)
Cherepanov has more than just transfer issues. There were just as many as Espo, if not more, reports of attitude problems.
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2004
- 34,321
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Why did Dan Marino drop all the way to the Dolphins the year after they where in the Super Bowl, and he was projected to be a top 5 pick?
Because someone made rumors about him being on coke, and having character issues.
He did ok in the NFL. Hung around for a few years.
There are tons of examples like this in all major sports of a player who dropped for no real reason, and became very good, and sometimes great player.
Either way I'm just going to wait and see how he does, instead of worrying why he fell and why he can't do this or that.
Scouts can't predict the future.
How many 18 year olds have the character to be in the NHL that young (except in a few rare cases)?
We are talking about teenagers here... I'd like anyone on here who was fully mature at 18 to cast the first stone.
Character is something that comes with age and experience.
Because someone made rumors about him being on coke, and having character issues.
He did ok in the NFL. Hung around for a few years.
There are tons of examples like this in all major sports of a player who dropped for no real reason, and became very good, and sometimes great player.
Either way I'm just going to wait and see how he does, instead of worrying why he fell and why he can't do this or that.
Scouts can't predict the future.
How many 18 year olds have the character to be in the NHL that young (except in a few rare cases)?
We are talking about teenagers here... I'd like anyone on here who was fully mature at 18 to cast the first stone.
Character is something that comes with age and experience.
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Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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It wasn't the NHL, it was Hockey Canada, and they're not known for popularity moves. More often than not, character is even more important than skill when it comes to picking a Hockey Canada team, let alone a captain.
The gold medals won under Espo's captaincy speak for themselves.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
You even say from watching him that players with lesser God given skills were picked over him. Look, I am not saying that Esposito is not taking a chance. But at 20? Name me a player in a weak draft in the bottom third of the draft who does not have question marks. It really does become a no brainer to take the kid with talent. It is not like this kid has character issues like Pac man Jones. To be honest most seem to be nit-picking. He went from a loaded team to one that sucked and his production fell and people said that he did not 'step up' as projected. Really? How shocking. He was not in the final analysis the latest version of 'better than Crosby' as advertised. Oh really? Shocking. An eighteen year old felt the pressure of number one and did not handle it as well as he could have. Oh really? Shocking.
What I am not hearing, from any of his detractors, is that the kid does not have world class skills. The Pens, a team with crosby, malkin, Fleury, Staal, Whitney, Letang and on and on got a kid with at number 20 with world class skills that could [otentially keep up with the above star players. Oh really? Shocking.
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