Great Britain: EPIHL and NIHL discussion thread

[Siamese Dream]

Very true but maybe it could be more viable to have it tied in with the best Sports University?

Loughborough, and play out of Nottingham, very possible.

There wouldn't be much point though really, it would only help the GB U20's with WJC preparation. Their development wouldn't be helped anymore than playing for a senior team since they play plenty of games and are on the ice often.

If development is the key you have to target younger players, a U18 development program wouldn't really work, they'd have nobody to play against and the players won't want to leave school or college, and where would the money for it come from.

 

[Shrimper]

Would you say though that the difference in the amount of ice time that players get in nations such as France, Latvia etc is greater than Great Britain?

 

[Siamese Dream]

Would you say though that the difference in the amount of ice time that players get in nations such as France, Latvia etc is greater than Great Britain?

Ice time and number of games is only an issue at the earlier ages. When the top players get old enough to start training with the senior team they're on the ice nearly every day, and the EPL play a 50+ game season. But even then, it's only not a problem for the top players and this is why we lack depth.

I'll take the perfect example of myself and James Griffin, both nearly the same age playing for the same club.

I was on the ice with the U18's once a week on a monday, occasionally twice a week on thursday or friday.
Griff trained with the U16's and the U18's on a monday, already he's getting double the ice time I did. He was on the ice with the Wildcats I think 2/3 times a week, and on the days off he sometimes had South West conference U17's and England U16's training. He also played for both the U16 and U18 teams.

The fact he was in the lower age group being able to play up while I wasn't is irrelevant because when I was a U16 I wasn't good enough to play up anyway.

He's now playing in the EIHL for Coventry blaze, and I'm paying to play in NIHL2. As you can see the system is very elitist towards the good players, now I'm not saying focus less on the good players but the worse players need to be given a lot more coaching and support. This becomes a problem because when you watch all levels of junior hockey it's obvious that each team has a couple of players running the show, and when these guys get to senior level they struggle because they're used to being the superstar.

The Guildford junior club does a very good job of this, if they actually had an NIHL team to give some young guys senior experience and if the Flames gave more kids a chance they would be pumping out the talent, but unfortunately all they can produce right now is a lot of mediocre players.

 

[ChaiTiefling]

Or at least that's the story their owner seems to be spinning.

Oh, I've got a fair few stories right there.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Manchester's Fone will have surgery, so they'll have to go with El Hage for the rest of the season including playoffs

 

[Siamese Dream]

Slough advance to the EPL cup final after beating Basingstoke in penalty shots, they will play the winner of Guildford v Manchester

Here's highlights from the game and you can see me in action

 

[ficohok*]

What is avarage salary for foreginers in EPIHL ?

 

[Siamese Dream]

What is avarage salary for foreginers in EPIHL ?

A few hundred pounds a week plus you are given accommodation

 

[Siamese Dream]

Absolutely filthy penalty shot by Bakrlik at 4:40

 

[Siamese Dream]

From Ice man EPL

"No Elite League for us, says Lightning chairman Vito Rausa after ridiculous rumours surround rink refurbishment. EIHL is detrimental to Brits, says Lightning's Chairman Rausa. 'I don't agree with teams having so many foreign players,' he added."

Pretty ironic, considering he himself is foreign

 

[Siamese Dream]

IHJUK EPL Player of the Year
Jonas HÖÖG

IHJUK EPL Coach of the Year
Paul DIXON


EPL All-Star Team 1 -
Stevie LYLE (Basingstoke Bison)
Luke BOOTHROYD (Manchester Phoenix)
Branislav KVETAN (Guildford Flames)
David LONGSTAFF (Guildford Flames)
Jonas HÖÖG (Swindon Wildcats)
Aaron NELL (Swindon Wildcats)

EPL All-Star Team 2 -
Stephen WALL (Milton Keynes Lightning)
Mindaugas KIERAS (Slough Jets)
Ben MORGAN (Sheffield Steeldogs)
Curtis HUPPE (Guildford Flames)
Lukas SMITAL (Bracknell Bees)
Roman PSURNY (Manchester Phoenix)

Can't say I agree with some of the 2nd all star team selections

 

[Siamese Dream]

EPL playoff match-ups for this weekend:

Guildford Flames v Peterborough Phantoms
Basingstoke Bison v Swindon Wildcats
Manchester Phoenix v Bracknell Bees
Milton Keynes Lightning v Slough Jets

Teams will play a home and home, with the winner decided by aggregate score. Winners will go to Coventry finals weekend on 6/7 April

 

[villevalo]

Imaginary Threats - Good game last night no?

 

[Siamese Dream]

Imaginary Threats - Good game last night no?

Best game of the year for me

 

[howeaboutthat]

Import levels in the EIHL need to be reduced, it's as simple as that (not having that debate in here though, take it to the EIHL thread).

I don't think it needs to be taken to the EIHL thread because a reduction in import levels in the EIHL would have a direct impact on the quality of Brits in the EPL. Even with import levels as they are there are comments leaking out of the Steelers organisation with regards to a 'crisis' with their Brits not being good enough and suggestions they may have to dip their toe into EPL water to fulfill their needs.

Lower the import levels and the EIHL is more appealing to clubs like Basingstoke and Manchester to come back up....

Whilst at the same time making the hockey less appealing to many fans of current EIHL teams.

Also it of course develops British players.

Does it? If the current 'need' for Brits in the EIHL is anything to go by an increased requirement will just push the wages up of even more mediocre British players who become 'valued' purely by grace of their nationality. This'll lead to an arms race such as we already have for the likes of Clarke, Myers, Meyers, Lachowitz, Murphy etc but for any Brit who can lace his own skates up, pricing out the smaller teams even more.

Its simple supply and demand.

- NA produces lots of hockey players, lots of supply.
-UK produces few hockey players, low supply.
- League imposes restrictions that mean high demand on low source of supply.
- Costs go up.

Not sure how much simpler the folly that is the belief 'reducing imports=cheaper' can be disproved.

Supply and demand, it makes the world go around.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I don't think it needs to be taken to the EIHL thread because a reduction in import levels in the EIHL would have a direct impact on the quality of Brits in the EPL. Even with import levels as they are there are comments leaking out of the Steelers organisation with regards to a 'crisis' with their Brits not being good enough and suggestions they may have to dip their toe into EPL water to fulfill their needs.



Whilst at the same time making the hockey less appealing to many fans of current EIHL teams.



Does it? If the current 'need' for Brits in the EIHL is anything to go by an increased requirement will just push the wages up of even more mediocre British players who become 'valued' purely by grace of their nationality. This'll lead to an arms race such as we already have for the likes of Clarke, Myers, Meyers, Lachowitz, Murphy etc but for any Brit who can lace his own skates up, pricing out the smaller teams even more.

Its simple supply and demand.

- NA produces lots of hockey players, lots of supply.
-UK produces few hockey players, low supply.
- League imposes restrictions that mean high demand on low source of supply.
- Costs go up.

Not sure how much simpler the folly that is the belief 'reducing imports=cheaper' can be disproved.

Supply and demand, it makes the world go around.

Yes that's all true if you decided tomorrow lets reduce EIHL imports to 7 or 8 but I want a gradual reduction not an immediate drastic reduction.

Reduce to 10 for next season or the year after, keep it as that for a few years then put it down to 9 etc.

Work on a proper development plan for juniors to increase the supply of British players and wages will not go up and the small teams will not be priced out. A gradual reduction opens up roster places for British players and gives some guys a chance they may not get with the current limit, therefore they get better. The less appealing to fans argument is nulled and void because the British players get better and there is no noticeable decline in standard of the league.

 

[Alpine]

You may not have to worry much about imports as there are many reports that some/many imports won't be returning because of bad reffing and not protecting players.
Not a reputation to get around me thinks.

 

[Siamese Dream]

You may not have to worry much about imports as there are many reports that some/many imports won't be returning because of bad reffing and not protecting players.
Not a reputation to get around me thinks.

I think when Theo Fleury left he said he would never return because of the officiating

 

[howeaboutthat]

The less appealing to fans argument is nulled and void because the British players get better and there is no noticeable decline in standard of the league.

The UK doesn't have the infrastructure to support this rise in standard you believe will happen over time.

Once again its very simple. Player development is a triangle, the wider the base at the bottom, the more players you'll find who are rightly good enough to occupy the pointy bit at the top.

Your approach is back to front, with you seemingly believing that if you force the bit at the top wider over time the base will swell and produce. If the UK was a country where ice time wasn't an issue and rinks were plentiful and cheap to use (rather than few and far between and expensive) then you might have a point but it isn't. The suburbs of my home town have more rinks than this entire country and no amount of fiddling about with import limits is going to convince people holding the purse strings to start building the infrastructure needed.

Hell, my rec team struggled to get ice time (four weeks without any) at the UK's premier twin-pad facility because ice hockey over here is deemed less worthy of it than short-track speed skaters, figure skaters and Disney on Ice!

As I said before and said in this thread, these things often have very simple issues. In this case , a narrow 'base' of grass roots players, as a consequence of poor access to the necessary facilities, means the quality at the top will always be restricted. Increasing demand will just necessitate dipping lower down the 'triangle' for players.

 

[Alpine]

I think when Theo Fleury left he said he would never return because of the officiating

Steelers Shawn Limpright tweeted "Good League with good fans and great players ruined by awfulll officiating" DeCaro will not return.
Flyers coach Duthiame wants some accountability for on ice officials.
Not the kinda stuff you want potential imports to read

 

[howeaboutthat]

You may not have to worry much about imports as there are many reports that some/many imports won't be returning because of bad reffing and not protecting players.
Not a reputation to get around me thinks.

Odd that most of the complaints regarding officiating come from players from teams such as Belfast, Sheffield etc, teams that under-performed compared to other teams.

I haven't seen many Panthers players whinging about on-ice officials on Twitter.....

The quality of officials isn't brilliant but 'also rans' in the NHL complain just as heartily about on-ice official performances. Its called sour grapes.

 

[Siamese Dream]

The UK doesn't have the infrastructure to support this rise in standard you believe will happen over time.

Once again its very simple. Player development is a triangle, the wider the base at the bottom, the more players you'll find who are rightly good enough to occupy the pointy bit at the top.

Your approach is back to front, with you seemingly believing that if you force the bit at the top wider over time the base will swell and produce. If the UK was a country where ice time wasn't an issue and rinks were plentiful and cheap to use (rather than few and far between and expensive) then you might have a point but it isn't. The suburbs of my home town have more rinks than this entire country and no amount of fiddling about with import limits is going to convince people holding the purse strings to start building the infrastructure needed.

Hell, my rec team struggled to get ice time at the UK's premier twin-pad facility because ice hockey over here is deemed less worthy of it than short-track speed skaters, figure skaters and Disney on Ice!

As I said before and said in this thread, these things often have very simple issues. In this case , a narrow 'base' of grass roots players, as a consequence of poor access to the necessary facilities, means the quality at the top will always be restricted. Increasing demand will just necessitate dipping lower down the 'triangle' for players.

no, I did quite clearly state "work on a proper junior development program"

Better junior development COMBINED with lower import limits will help. Lower import limits and more kids will see a future for themselves in the game and are more likely to start playing and existing players are less likely to quit or have work come first. So many good players do not reach their potential because there is no realistic career path for them, because of imports.

 

[howeaboutthat]

...no, I did quite clearly state "work on a proper junior development program...

Which requires infastructure does it not?

Back home I have 6 'hockey only' rinks within a 30 minute drive, plus many more multi-use facilities. You are an on-ice official aren't you? How much travelling do you have to do to get to various rinks, how easy is it for any 'junior development' system you've encounted (no matter how well run) to secure decent ice time?

I've yet to find an ice rink in the UK where ice hockey coaching of any level takes precedence over twirlers and zoomers.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Which requires infastructure does it not?

Back home I have 6 'hockey only' rinks within a 30 minute drive, plus many more multi-use facilities. You are an on-ice official aren't you? How much travelling do you have to do to get to various rinks, how easy is it for any 'junior development' system you've encounted (no matter how well run) to secure decent ice time?

I've yet to find an ice rink in the UK where ice hockey coaching of any level takes precedence over twirlers and zoomers.

Yes but the capacity utilisation of the current infrastructure is well below what it could be. Put competent people in charge of the governing body, proper development and guidance for coaches and officials and so forth. Infrastructure is not an excuse anymore, nations with less rinks and less players than us can produce NHL players but we cannot, so obviously we are doing something wrong.

Yes I'm an official based in Reading. I can get to Bracknell, Slough and Basingstoke in less than 30 minutes. I can get to Oxford, Swindon and Guildford in less than an hour. Brixton and Gosport would be pushing it, depending on traffic.

Hockey takes priority in Swindon. The GM Steve Nell buys the ice time for hockey from the council, he set up the Okanagan Hockey Academy there and basically said **** you to the figure skaters and bought all their ice time. Oh the irony when they were in the local paper complaining the hockey players took their ice... Just shows all it takes is someone with a vision to take the initiative and progress will be made. I am sure OHA will produce many good players over the next few years.

 

[Alpine]

Odd that most of the complaints regarding officiating come from players from teams such as Belfast, Sheffield etc, teams that under-performed compared to other teams.

I haven't seen many Panthers players whinging about on-ice officials on Twitter.....

The quality of officials isn't brilliant but 'also rans' in the NHL complain just as heartily about on-ice official performances. Its called sour grapes.

Well it would be pretty stupid to say anything bad about on ice officials when your team is still playing