Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2020

[Cloned]

Because its not just a change of a sports team name. Its the oh it hurt, oh it causes me pain fractious minority beating of a drum that involves everything. Way of life, economy, dirty Oil, endless blockades, endless protests. A lot of people are getting that Canada as a nation is ceasing to function. No less than that. This country is so dysfunction its incapable of having a viable economy. Everything is offensive, everything is protested, everything is potentially cancelled.

Looking beyond just the name here what really is occurring as Canada has ceased to be a democracy. its run by specious minority interests now.

With Govt that WANTS this because every lily livered made up social justice issue distracts from a country 1 trillion in debt, and in financial disaster. The powers that be want us to be thinking of rainbows and conversion therapy, and name changes all day. Oddly the media want it too. The real news is this country is done.

And you don't even live in the US...

 

[Skolman]

Man I cant believe how many people here are upset. It's really not a big deal and I'm excited to see what they come up with for a new name. Rebranding isnt the worst thing for this team.

You know why we're upset, well me anyways?

It won't stop here. The more you give into them the more power they think they have over society when it comes to dictating what's appropriate.

A small portion of society shouldn't be the ones dictating what's offensive, especially when a heavy majority of these SJW's don't follow sports at all.

I personally know a family member of mine in her mid-20's, for the past 3-4 weeks has been extremely vocal about the Redskins and Eskimos changing their name. I guarantee you she has never watched a football game in her life. Now that these two are accomplished, she will move on to the next.

I'll never understand why people give into the mob.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Hahahaha, nope. The others, yes.

not yet
but somebody will find the glorification of Irish "Fighting" and the depiction of the Vikings...a people who raped, tortured and murdered...very offensive

 

[joestevens29]

The tradition and history of the Inuit matter infinitely, endlessly more than the "history and tradition" of a football team.

It's not the 99% against the 1%. It's f***ing white football fans who care more about a brand name than the 20+% of regional Inuit who want the name changed and the 70+% of non-regional Inuit that want the name changed.

How the f*** is this post even here? The f***ing white? Wow


And it's not just whites. I hang out with East Indians, blacks, white and asians, they all seem to think this is a waste of time.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Change it to the Dinosaurs. It’ll reflect most of the thinking in this thread.

 

[doulos]

Their rebranding will sadly result in even more financial losses than before. I've talked to several season ticket holders and they will not be renewing in the future.

I dont believe them

 

[bone]

I dont believe them

I believe it will happen, but the name change would be the last straw, not the primary reason.

There's been a growing frustration with a cross-section of the season ticket holder base and the organization dating back pretty much to the hiring of Eric Tillman (Macoccia sucked and pissed off fans, but at least he wasn't a despicable human being). The team almost saved that with the strong two year run of Hervey, Jones, Reilly culminating with a Grey Cup, but Rhodes blew that out the window within a year because of his gigantic ego.

Many were ready to jump two years ago. I even called to cancel but got talked out of it by them saying wait two weeks for a special announcement which was obviously the Grey Cup, so I waited one more year and the team completely blew it in a Grey Cup hosting year.

Then they moved on from Reilly shortly therafter scaring off more season ticket holders, but I stuck around because that seemed to be moreso on him than the team and Rhodes was announced to be leaving. I gave them another year and I actually saw some positives to last year that I was hoping would be improved with the new recruits having a year under their belts and I like the new coaching staff.

I also was satisfied with the early impressions of Presson, but I know some will see this as a bad sign of another bad President and could be the last straw, and a year without football due to COVID gives them a sample of what summer's without season ticket's could be like.

What I don't believe is that they'll just give up on the team entirely. I think they'll still watch if the league starts back up again. The best chance the Esks have to rebound from this is if they pull off a bubble season, Edmonton needs to win or at least appear in the Grey Cup. If they do, that could be the momentum needed to steer them through this.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yup. We used to be able to step away from all that bullshit to watch a football game. Can't even do that now without some SJW agenda being jammed down your throat.

I watched every single CFL game last season. Every one. And I plan on doing that again whenever the league restarts. But it is going to be damn hard to watch those first couple Edmonton games, just a massive kick in the nuts all over again.

Amen. Lets break it down. Sports and entertainment largely exist to give us distances and distraction from a however f***ed up world. We lost the season due to pandemic, which ironically occurred here to the extent it did due to virtue signalling and such advice as "don't distance from Wuhan travellers, its racist" and now, after A CFL season was cancelled, when many other sports, movies, entertainment have been cancelled we're now told that there will be no Edmonton Eskimos forever. Gone. Extinct. This programming is cancelled. Do not adjust your set..

I mean its bad enough all this occurs for the reasons it did. But lets just kick us all in the nuts at the worst time ever.

Who could have realized in Nov 2019 that the last Edmonton Eskimos game had been played. Who could realize the last time people could sang along to the eskimos fight song, wore their jerseys, paraphernalia. RIP everything soon enough in Cancel Culture. Better change the name of the country, racist cultural appropriation.

CFL to be renamed North Football League. NFL sues with everything they got.

 

[Arpeggio]

How the f*** is this post even here? The f***ing white? Wow


And it's not just whites. I hang out with East Indians, blacks, white and asians, they all seem to think this is a waste of time.

I know when I read f***ing white I was so shocked I nearly fell out of my ivory tower.

 

[Frank the Tank]

There's been numerous posts asking about how does a name impact a group of people. While I can't speak personally, I decided to read more on the topic in the manuscript referenced earlier:

Although the mascot debate continues, the psychological research is clear that the use of Native mascots is detrimental for Native people. These mascots decrease Native individuals’ self-esteem, community worth, and achievement-related aspirations (Fryberg, et al., 2008; Fryberg & Watts, 2010), and increase stress and depression (LaRocque, et al., 2011). The use of Native mascots also increases stereotyping of (e.g., Burkley et al., 2017) and discrimination against Native Americans (e.g., Chaney et al., 2011; Clark & Witko, in press). Despite these robust findings, media coverage of polls conducted by non-Native organizations often argue that Natives’ endorsement of these mascots is sufficient justification for their continued use (Cox, Clement & Vargas, 2016; The Washington Post, 2013; Vargas, 2019). Yet, our data suggest that these estimates are inflated. To more accurately understand Native Americans’ support for mascots and the psychological consequences of using Native mascots, we must move away from assuming that Natives are a monolithic group and that attitudes in isolation are sufficient to justify using imagery and logos that are harmful to a particular group. Defenders of Native mascots also argue that contemporary Native people have “more important” issues to worry about than Native mascots (Cox & Vargas, 2016). Indeed, Native Americans currently face an unprecedented epidemic of missing and murdered women (Lucchesi & Echo-Hawk, 2018), life-threatening contamination of drinking water (Boyles & Wyss, 2018), disproportionately high rates of death at the hands of police (Millet, 2015), and suicide rates that far exceed the national average (O’Keefe, Tucker, Cole, Hollingsworth & Wingate, 2018). Yet, at the heart of all of these issues is the question of what it means to be Native American in contemporary society. Far from trivial, mascots are one of the many ways in which society dehumanizes Native people and silences Native voices. These representations not only shape how non-Natives see Native people, but also how Native people understand themselves and what is possible for their communities (Fryberg & Watts, 2010). Solving the problems facing Native communities requires both acknowledging Native people’s existence and listening to their perspectives. As Native American activist Suzan Shown Harjo noted, “That non-Native folks think they get to measure or decide what offends us is adding insult to injury.”
​

Plenty of references to unpack, but there appears to be numerous publications supporting their claims.

 

[bone]

There's been numerous posts asking about how does a name impact a group of people. While I can't speak personally, I decided to read more on the topic in the manuscript referenced earlier:

Although the mascot debate continues, the psychological research is clear that the use of Native mascots is detrimental for Native people. These mascots decrease Native individuals’ self-esteem, community worth, and achievement-related aspirations (Fryberg, et al., 2008; Fryberg & Watts, 2010), and increase stress and depression (LaRocque, et al., 2011). The use of Native mascots also increases stereotyping of (e.g., Burkley et al., 2017) and discrimination against Native Americans (e.g., Chaney et al., 2011; Clark & Witko, in press). Despite these robust findings, media coverage of polls conducted by non-Native organizations often argue that Natives’ endorsement of these mascots is sufficient justification for their continued use (Cox, Clement & Vargas, 2016; The Washington Post, 2013; Vargas, 2019). Yet, our data suggest that these estimates are inflated. To more accurately understand Native Americans’ support for mascots and the psychological consequences of using Native mascots, we must move away from assuming that Natives are a monolithic group and that attitudes in isolation are sufficient to justify using imagery and logos that are harmful to a particular group. Defenders of Native mascots also argue that contemporary Native people have “more important” issues to worry about than Native mascots (Cox & Vargas, 2016). Indeed, Native Americans currently face an unprecedented epidemic of missing and murdered women (Lucchesi & Echo-Hawk, 2018), life-threatening contamination of drinking water (Boyles & Wyss, 2018), disproportionately high rates of death at the hands of police (Millet, 2015), and suicide rates that far exceed the national average (O’Keefe, Tucker, Cole, Hollingsworth & Wingate, 2018). Yet, at the heart of all of these issues is the question of what it means to be Native American in contemporary society. Far from trivial, mascots are one of the many ways in which society dehumanizes Native people and silences Native voices. These representations not only shape how non-Natives see Native people, but also how Native people understand themselves and what is possible for their communities (Fryberg & Watts, 2010). Solving the problems facing Native communities requires both acknowledging Native people’s existence and listening to their perspectives. As Native American activist Suzan Shown Harjo noted, “That non-Native folks think they get to measure or decide what offends us is adding insult to injury.”
​

Plenty of references to unpack, but there appears to be numerous publications supporting their claims.

I know they've existed earlier on in the teams existence, but I don't recall seeing a Native mascot or even imagery for the Edmonton Eskimos in my entire 43 year life (unless you consider an igloo or polar bear Native imagery or mascot).

I imagine a name is different than stereotypical imagery and mascots.

 

[Messrules11]

I hear the Padres are looking into a name change now. This shit never ends.

 

[Del Preston]

New thread up: Edmonton CFL Team 2020 v2

 

[joestevens29]

I hear the Padres are looking into a name change now. This shit never ends.

The Padres adopted their name from the Pacific Coast League team that arrived in San Diego in 1936. That minor league franchise won the PCL title in 1937, led by 18-year-old Ted Williams, the future Hall-of-Famer who was a native of San Diego. The team's name, Spanish for "fathers", refers to the Spanish Franciscan friars who founded San Diego in 1769.

So what exactly is the issue with their name?

 

[Drivesaitl]

There's been numerous posts asking about how does a name impact a group of people. While I can't speak personally, I decided to read more on the topic in the manuscript referenced earlier:

Although the mascot debate continues, the psychological research is clear that the use of Native mascots is detrimental for Native people. These mascots decrease Native individuals’ self-esteem, community worth, and achievement-related aspirations (Fryberg, et al., 2008; Fryberg & Watts, 2010), and increase stress and depression (LaRocque, et al., 2011). The use of Native mascots also increases stereotyping of (e.g., Burkley et al., 2017) and discrimination against Native Americans (e.g., Chaney et al., 2011; Clark & Witko, in press). Despite these robust findings, media coverage of polls conducted by non-Native organizations often argue that Natives’ endorsement of these mascots is sufficient justification for their continued use (Cox, Clement & Vargas, 2016; The Washington Post, 2013; Vargas, 2019). Yet, our data suggest that these estimates are inflated. To more accurately understand Native Americans’ support for mascots and the psychological consequences of using Native mascots, we must move away from assuming that Natives are a monolithic group and that attitudes in isolation are sufficient to justify using imagery and logos that are harmful to a particular group. Defenders of Native mascots also argue that contemporary Native people have “more important” issues to worry about than Native mascots (Cox & Vargas, 2016). Indeed, Native Americans currently face an unprecedented epidemic of missing and murdered women (Lucchesi & Echo-Hawk, 2018), life-threatening contamination of drinking water (Boyles & Wyss, 2018), disproportionately high rates of death at the hands of police (Millet, 2015), and suicide rates that far exceed the national average (O’Keefe, Tucker, Cole, Hollingsworth & Wingate, 2018). Yet, at the heart of all of these issues is the question of what it means to be Native American in contemporary society. Far from trivial, mascots are one of the many ways in which society dehumanizes Native people and silences Native voices. These representations not only shape how non-Natives see Native people, but also how Native people understand themselves and what is possible for their communities (Fryberg & Watts, 2010). Solving the problems facing Native communities requires both acknowledging Native people’s existence and listening to their perspectives. As Native American activist Suzan Shown Harjo noted, “That non-Native folks think they get to measure or decide what offends us is adding insult to injury.”
​

Plenty of references to unpack, but there appears to be numerous publications supporting their claims.

Do any of these studies go into any detail on the mechanism of how exactly that harm occurs?

Is it just self report or demonstrable findings? Otherwise harm isn't quantified in any way. Its just the perception of harm, which of course is entirely subjective.

What indication that something as spurious as changing names of sporting teams will bring about significant or even detectable change in any of what the studies cite above?

What indication is there in any of these of some sort of control. i.e. Native American groups not exposed to the names being any different than those exposed to the names.

Probably all the studies show is that a minority group told by certain influencers that they are all impacted and harmed by all these things start believing they are all impacted and harmed by these things. Which could raise a question whether the invocation of harm is due to the names, or due to the rancor about the names.

The prior point is not specious either. The local changing of the Eskimos name, had little to do with the Eskimos name itself. Activism was spurred by a combination of the mob Floyd protests followed by a Sexist comment by an Eskimo player who was promptly fired. Thats what brought about the recent protest and name change. Apparentlly some hot button issue overboiling on the burner was harming people more this time...


My own take would be that its blatantly unhealthy if not irresponsible to be telling groups of people that such innocuous influence is harming them. This harm narrative produces generations of eggshell individuals with no reslience, perseverence, self autonomy that are harmed by essentially anything. Like breathing air.

The narrative that people are harmed so easily, so readily, is damaging destructive influence and is the polar opposite of working on resilience.

I could write a book on how harmful it is to be telling people that the locus of their own life and self control lies external to them. Preach that all day and you are seeding massive failure and lack of individual autonomy. Why make positive self change when its possible to sit back and just be angry throughout life about whatever perceived external forces have done to you.

 

[Drugs Delaney]

Do any of these studies go into any detail on the mechanism of how exactly that harm occurs?

Is it just self report or demonstrable findings?

What indication that something as spurious as changing names of sporting teams will bring about significant or even detectable change in any of what the studies cite above?

What indication is there in any of these of some sort of control. i.e. Native American groups not exposed to the names being any different than those exposed to the names.

Probably all the studies show is that a minority group told by certain influencers that they are all impacted and harmed by all these things start believing they are all impacted and harmed by these things. Which could raise a question whether the invocation of harm is due to the names, or due to the rancor about the names.

The prior point is not specious either. The local changing of the Eskimos name, had little to do with the Eskimos name itself. Activism was spurred by a combination of the mob Floyd protests followed by a Sexist comment by an Eskimo player who was promptly fired. Thats what brought about the recent protest and name change. Apparentlly some hot button issue overboiling on the burner was harming people more this time...


My own take would be that its blatantly unhealthy if not irresponsible to be telling groups of people that such innocuous influence is harming them. This harm narrative produces generations of eggshell individuals with no reslience, perseverence, self autonomy that are harmed by essentially anything. Like breathing air.

The narrative that people are harmed so easily, so readily, is damaging destructive influence and is the polar opposite of working on resilience.

I could write a book on how harmful it is to be telling people that the locus of their own life and self control lies external to them. Preach that all day and you are seeding massive failure and lack of individual autonomy. Why make positive self change when its possible to sit back and just be angry throughout life about whatever perceived external forces have done to you.

Welcome to getting old and losing touch. It happened to our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and so on. The world is changing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Loving this thread today.

This cultural war is taking so many of our icons in society. Star Wars is gone to the other side. Comic books and comic book movies are gone to the other side. Now sports. It’s the fact that so much of our culture can’t be left alone it needs to be turned into a lecture instead of a discussion (or better yet - left alone!). In a discussion some of this nonsense can be silenced or ended almost immediately with stats or other facts. But these long tedious lectures self serving lectures just divide us.

I’m mad about the name change because many who have never had an interest in the CFL have insulted many older people by insinuating their hobby is racist. Older people don’t see it that way and some will be less inclined to go to games after this which will probably devastate this team and the CFL.

I mean, have you seen the prequels? They bent to the tree community by letting a piece of wood play as Anakin Skywalker.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Welcome to getting old and losing touch. It happened to our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers and so on. The world is changing.

The world is always changing and evolving. Its a misperception, and I realize you haven't stated this, that the change is necessarily always positive, productive, and progress.

We might actually find that we are entering into a dark ages pact of deconstruction. Certainly de-economy.

Times of book burnings and rewriting of everything including history rarely end well.

 

[Jetsfan79]

The thing that seems to be lost in this is did Bel air direct contact the Inuit (or vice versa)?

I'm just wondering if the talks between the Eskimos and Bel air direct went something like this:

Eskomos: " We asked the Inuit in the past and most do not find it offensive. " if you don't believe us maybe you should contact them or do your own study"

Bel air direct;. "We don't really care about the Inuit. Just our image. We want to follow NIKE and be like them" Perception is everything. Whether it's really racist is not the issue."

Eskomos: " well maybe we should do a new study and strengthen our ties with the Inuit. Let's not make a rash decision "

Bel air direct: " Nah. Twitter mob is telling us to ACT NOW" so just do it.

I'm not saying that's what happened at all. But it would be interesting to know if the pressure the sponsors were getting to dissociate themselves with the team was from the people getting offended or people speaking on behalf of those getting offended and being mind readers

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

Remember that belairdirect is a CFL sponsor, not just an Eskimos' sponsor.

Now that they're changing the name, belairdirect better now spend enough money to get the season going and have the belairdirect Grey Cup awarded some time in 2020.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The thing that seems to be lost in this is did Bel air direct contact the Inuit (or vice versa)?

I'm just wondering if the talks between the Eskimos and Bel air direct went something like this:

Eskomos: " We asked the Inuit in the past and most do not find it offensive. " if you don't believe us maybe you should contact them or do you own study"

Bel air direct;. "We don't really care about the Inuit. Just our image. We want to follow NIKE and be like them" Perception is everything. Whether it's really racist is not the issue."

Eskomos: " well maybe we should do a new study and strengthen our ties with the Inuit. Let's not make a rash decision "

Bel air direct: " Nah. Twitter mob is telling us to ACT NOW" so just do it.

I'm not saying that's what happened at all. But it would be interesting to know if the pressure the sponsors were getting to dissociate themselves with the team was from the people getting offended or people speaking on behalf of these getting offended and being mind readers

At the exact same time the City of Edmonton was fire bombed with 12K (mostly BLM by accounts) DEMANDS to defund the police. Its been nonstop whacamole activism here. The Esks got into the fray a month ago because a now fired Eskimos player made a sexist comment. That unleashed the firestorm in the direction of the Eskimos.

Most people here surmising that Belair direct were just virtue signalling and quick to jump on that bandwagon. I mean I'm not sure how they justify longterm funding of a football team with an "offensive" name, and a league with an appropriated country name...."Canadian"... how do they sleep at night?

 

[Pucklington]

pretty ignorant of you to assume everyone to disagrees with the name change are "boomers"

Interesting that's all you got from the post.

 

[Yeah15]

Man I cant believe how many people here are upset. It's really not a big deal and I'm excited to see what they come up with for a new name. Rebranding isnt the worst thing for this team.

I'd be somewhat excited to see what they're gonna have for a new name if it didn't seem fairly apparent that it's going to be Empire. Which is a hilariously embarrassing name.

My biggest worry is how this name change meshes with the E*****s cheer song.

Probably the highlight of the game on nights when the Eskimos are getting stomped. Now I suppose we'll copy Calgary and sing a Garth Brooks or George Strait song between the 3rd and 4th quarters.

I'm pretty disappointed the name is going to be changed, but I understand why the team had to. What frustrates me is people saying they're going to be dropping their season tickets. Do these people really think that the organization didn't try for as long as they could to keep the team history associated with the name? It's pretty obvious that the Esks did everything they could until you have this massive SJW uprising on social media. Stop threatening to hurt the organization, they obviously understood the season ticket base did not want a name change whatsoever.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Interesting that's all you got from the post.

perhaps next time you can keep the name-calling out if you want people to take your post seriously

 

[Drivesaitl]

How the f*** is this post even here? The f***ing white? Wow


And it's not just whites. I hang out with East Indians, blacks, white and asians, they all seem to think this is a waste of time.

Last week the same poster was commenting on braindead white people not being bothered to know the right names of indigenous peoples while genocidally murdering them..

Nothing should be surprising from that poster.