Proposal: Edm - Tor: Let’s get wild

[CatchyTune]

Again that's fine if you prefer potential over immediate impact. But that's what the whole argument is based on here. Sandin being a first round pick who has massive potential because he's still only 19, and Bear not having that same leeway because he was drafted in the fifth round.

To me the age doesn't mean shit. If a kid was drafted in the late rounds and out of absolutely nowhere elevated his game as a rookie to be reliably used in a top 4 role (Bear was probably the Oilers best dman behind Klef last year) I think he should be granted the same potential to continue to develop as the 19 year old kid being sheltered.

Whatever round they were drafted in is completely irrelevant.

Age wasnt exactly my point, but one player being in his D+2 and the other being in his D+5 reflects their developmental curve. Sandin definitely has more room to grow.

Bear was playing with the Seattle Thunderbirds during his D+2. Not that that really matters for anything, but overcrediting Bear just because he "was a 5th round pick and came out of nowhere" doesnt affect his future potential.

Bear obviously has room to grow. But I think Sandin will definitely be the better player down the line. I dont think Bear has the elite tools to be a top 2 Dman unlike Sandin.

 

[Merrrlin]

In what world is this horrible for the leafs?

Marner is much better than RNH (granted RNH has been a PPG guy himself at wing).
Nurse is more valuable than Muzzin. Muzzin is better defensively but Nurse is better offensively and is 6 years younger. Both are physical.
Bear is currently better than Sandin, even if Sandin has potential, so does Bear. Not to mention both teams need RHD, not LHD.

Mikeyhev is whatever. Way to small of a sample size to know what going on here, I woukldnt be interested in trading assets for him.

So the Oilers give up their last year 8th overall dman (who projects to be a top pairing guy), their 2020 1st round pick, and AA who they just paid 2 2nd for, for what exactly? All that to bridge the gap between RNH and Marner?

I'd much rather give RNH an 8 x 5 contract than trade a ton of assets for Marner who costs over 10 million. If RNH maintains 70+ point play this isn't even close to worth it.


Funny that Toronto fans insist the they are the ones losing this trade, when it's not even close. Terms of pure assets they win, terms of team fit they win.
OP thought this was a good idea to find a running mate for McDavid. But not at the price of Draisaitl's running mate, 2 of their young top 4 defensemen, their top defensive prospect, a middle 6 winger and their 1st.

Interesting that everytime you mention a flaw in an Oilers asset, you must add in a positive qualifier with it.

For example, age seems to matter with Muzzin/Nurse but not Marner/RNH.

Marner is a career 81pt player, RNH is a 60pt player. Marner is 4 years younger. That's pretty significant, even with the salary obligations.

Nurse's value may be higher right now, but he's in a contract year, and if he nets 6+ million AAV, that value statement starts getting a little harder to defend.

Mikeyhev is whatever? Hey was on pace for 10pts less than RNH's career average, with no PP time and as a key PKer on the 1st unit. lol. He's not a top asset but if you don't value a 50pt 25 year old rookie winger who gets suboptimal usage you are being dense. Good player to keep around, a bit like your own Nishukin.

I don't have a problem with your overall statement that it's a bad deal, but your evaluations seem to be pretty bias.

 

[Blaine8797]

awful for the leafs

Leafs literally win the trade...

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

Horrible trade for the Leafs but I'd be stoked if Marner got traded.

 

[rent free]

Leafs literally win the trade...

they don't but thanks for playing

 

[GOilers88]

Whatever round they were drafted in is completely irrelevant.

Age wasnt exactly my point, but one player being in his D+2 and the other being in his D+5 reflects their developmental curve. Sandin definitely has more room to grow.

Bear was playing with the Seattle Thunderbirds during his D+2. Not that that really matters for anything, but overcrediting Bear just because he "was a 5th round pick and came out of nowhere" doesnt affect his future potential.

Bear obviously has room to grow. But I think Sandin will definitely be the better player down the line. I dont think Bear has the elite tools to be a top 2 Dman unlike Sandin.

How does current play not effect future potential? And I don't believe Bear has been overcredited.

The kid basically over one summer went from a hopeful top six defenseman to splitting the year with Nurse as the first and second pairing on the team and was only outplayed by Klefbom all season. As a rookie. Add in the fact he never got a look on the PP in favor of Nurse or Klef. I think it's safe to say his point totals would probably see an increase further rounding out his all around game. I really think he's being undervalued here and the only tangible reasons that have been given for that is that Sandin had a good WJC and is 19 instead of 22.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Interesting that everytime you mention a flaw in an Oilers asset, you must add in a positive qualifier with it.

For example, age seems to matter with Muzzin/Nurse but not Marner/RNH.

Marner is a career 81pt player, RNH is a 60pt player. Marner is 4 years younger. That's pretty significant, even with the salary obligations.

Nurse's value may be higher right now, but he's in a contract year, and if he nets 6+ million AAV, that value statement starts getting a little harder to defend.

Mikeyhev is whatever? Hey was on pace for 10pts less than RNH's career average, with no PP time and as a key PKer on the 1st unit. lol. He's not a top asset but if you don't value a 50pt 25 year old rookie winger who gets suboptimal usage you are being dense. Good player to keep around, a bit like your own Nishukin.

I don't have a problem with your overall statement that it's a bad deal, but your evaluations seem to be pretty bias.

The age qualifier is bigger with Nurse and Muzzin. RNH just turned 27 last week, he has more years of high end play left than Muzzin does.
Marner is quite a bit more valubale due to age and offense but the gap is not big enough to justify the additional adds from the OIlers POV.

Mikeyhev hasn't even scored 25 points yet so ease up on the "50 pt winger" stuff. He has a 39 game sample size, so no I wouldn't want my team to trade any significant assets for a guy that unproven. He has shown to be valuable over less than half a season, but I'd like to see him pay at least one full 82 game season before we make any declarations (which is a fair take imo).

 

[The Nuge]

Weird proposal.

Nurse vs Muzzin is pretty close, and I’m not sure either team wants that swap (Oilers certainly don’t)

Bear vs Sandin is the guy who’s easily better now (Bear) vs the guy who has a good shot to end up better (Sandin). Again, both teams probably don’t want that swap.

so you’re down to Marner and Mikheyev for Nuge, Broberg, AA, and a 1st. Toronto loves Marner, Broberg is a few years out so he doesn’t fix their d yet, and AA isn’t a big enough upgrade on Mikheyev to make them better right now. Edmonton meanwhile hurts our depth and capspace, as well as being asked to give up the first pick Holland made. Not to mention that Nuge is absolutely loved by coaches, and one of the go to guys in any situation.

Value is probably decent for both sides, but the fit is just so horrific for both.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs literally win the trade...

Impossible to win a trade when you give up by far the best player.

 

[Canada4Gold]

This is just all over the place. Bunch of lateral moves just all tossed in together that make no sense and then a Marner for pieces included.

Bear/Sandin: Bear is better now, Sandin probably has slightly more value. Why is this here? I doubt either team would do this.
Muzzin/Nurse: Nurse will be better long term but is approaching UFA. Muzzin is older and signed long term but that may not be a good thing. Muzzin was just extended as a UFA so won't be traded.
AA/Mikheyev: Edmonton literally just traded for AA, Mik was very effective for but had his year cut short, trading either makes no sense for both sides

Marner/RNH+Broberg+1st: Umm, I don't even know what to say. RNH wouldn't be a main piece for Marner, it just doesn't make sense. The only reason I'd trade Marner though is if Pietrangelo wanted to sign here and he'd be the piece we'd trade for a very enticing package of prospects + picks. Who knows if that becomes and option or not but this wouldn't be the package because of RNH.

 

[Merrrlin]

Toronto loves Marner.

I think you'd love him too, he would look right at home with a creative guy like McDavid.

 

[GOilers88]

I think you'd love him too, he would look right at home with a creative guy like McDavid.

No doubt. But Edmonton just shouldn't be taking on another 10+ million dollar contract.

 

[bukwas]

That is one ugly trade for Toronto.

 

[Merrrlin]

No doubt. But Edmonton just shouldn't be taking on another 10+ million dollar contract.

Would you rather have RNH@6 + AA@3+his next raise or Marner@11?

 

[Hunter368]

I think we can shut this one down, Oilers are in no position to take on a 10+ million winger and Leafs would want a value for value trade, not multi smaller pieces. Closed

 

[The Nuge]

I think you'd love him too, he would look right at home with a creative guy like McDavid.

Oh absolutely we would. I just meant it as I don’t see Dubas wanting to move him for anything short of a massive overpay