News Article: Dundon on the Arena

[CandyCanes]

I completely disagree that TD bought the team for a steal. He paid 420M for 52% ownership. That's a valuation of 807M. That puts the Canes in line with the Kings and more valuable than: Pens, Oilers, Blue, Lightning, etc.

I'll withhold verdict for now on TD. If salary remains this far under the cap he'll deserve all he gets.

I believe we’re both wrong. Rereading things is he bought in at a 62% ownership stake at a 500M evaluation. So he probably only has put in 310M into the team so far. He has the option to buy the remaining stake of the team from Karamnos 3 years after the purchase date at a 500M evaluation.

 

[CandyCanes]

This is not true. He bought about 60% of the team from Karmanos, with an option to buy the rest after three years, with a team valuation of just around $420M. So that means Karmanos was paid about $280M so far. He also has the option to sell back his shares after three years as well.

Sale Data

Weird some sources say he bought in at a 420M and others 500M, can’t seem to figure out what’s the correct number.

 

[Ahoy there]

This is not true. He bought about 60% of the team from Karmanos, with an option to buy the rest after three years, with a team valuation of just around $420M. So that means Karmanos was paid about $280M so far. He also has the option to sell back his shares after three years as well.

Sale Data

Thanks. I looked at bad data I guess. I'll say though if significant moves are not made to improve this roster next year, it'll show us his intentions. The timing and return for the Skinner trade was inexcusable and we've beaten that horse ad noseum. I have a bad feeling that move tipped his hand, and not in a good way.

 

[MinJaBen]

Weird some sources say he bought in at a 420M and others 500M, can’t seem to figure out what’s the correct number.

I think the confusion is based upon the difference between what he has bought and what the total purchase of the whole team would be if that happens. The first part was at a $420M valuation, but the remaining part that Karmanos owns will be purchased at a valuation above $500M, so the total price paid by Dundon for 100% will be about $500M.

 

[HisIceness]

I'll give Dundon this, he is better owner than Jordan is for the Hornets. At least he is engaged.

If he could not make inane statements, admit he screwed up the gm search and the Skinner trade and leave that stuff to more qualified people, and just focus on putting a better team on the ice instead of just saying it, we might actually have something good with him.

I hope to God he gets this through his head before it's too late.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Then again we might be reading way too much into this. They guy might just really want a downtown arena because he went to Tampa or D.C. and was like "this is the heat, we need this here"

IDK what the attendance figures were, but back when I lived in D.C. in the mid 90's and the Cap center was outside of town, they were probably much less than now. Then again the team also sucked,

I'd like a downtown arena, but its not like this town has throngs of people just rolling around like in Tampa where it is really advantageous, althogh that day is coming. And we might not have terrible traffic that nessecitates a downtown arena like D.C, but that day is coming as well.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

As Hank stated earlier, it's not even about the arena. It's about his "irresponsible" statement. He's owned the team less than a year and he's gone from "If the fans aren't showing up, we're doing something wrong" to "When is it irresponsible to stick around?"

Which means he was either incredibly ignorant about the situation he was walking into, or the thought of relocation was never too far from his mind.

Either way, it's not a good look for him. Which I believe I've said after just about every public statement he makes.

 

[emptyNedder]

I think the confusion is based upon the difference between what he has bought and what the total purchase of the whole team would be if that happens.

I think the confusion is that everything seems to based on sources "close to" the owners. Two things made me skeptical of Dundon from the start: 1) his business was termed "predatory" by several folks during court proceedings. 2) Forbes, which is about as objective as any source, valued the Canes just above $300M, if I remember correctly. Yet sources say Dundon purchased 61% at a $500M valuation with an opt in/out after 3 years. As a business deal none of that makes much sense. If you want the team so much that you are willing to pay what some considered full value for only 61%, wouldn't you just buy the whole thing? If you are a relatively young person willing to commit $300+ M (according to sources), wouldn't you A) buy 100% and B) commit to own the team for decades and win multiple Stanley Cups. Finally, why is Karmanos still 39% invested? He said he wanted to stay involved because he had such an attachment to the team. Since the sale has anyone seen or heard of Karmanos being involved in anything? Has he even been at one game?

I know billionaires are different because they can be. One way many are different is that they are willing to mislead the public if they find it advantageous (Zuckerberg, Elizabeth Holmes, Jeffrey Epstein to name a few).

I would not be surprised if the purchase price was less than $400M; if Karmanos had no intention of being involved; if we fans are seen much like the people with car loans.

 

[SvechneJerk]

I think the confusion is that everything seems to based on sources "close to" the owners. Two things made me skeptical of Dundon from the start: 1) his business was termed "predatory" by several folks during court proceedings. 2) Forbes, which is about as objective as any source, valued the Canes just above $300M, if I remember correctly. Yet sources say Dundon purchased 61% at a $500M valuation with an opt in/out after 3 years. As a business deal none of that makes much sense. If you want the team so much that you are willing to pay what some considered full value for only 61%, wouldn't you just buy the whole thing? If you are a relatively young person willing to commit $300+ M (according to sources), wouldn't you A) buy 100% and B) commit to own the team for decades and win multiple Stanley Cups. Finally, why is Karmanos still 39% invested? He said he wanted to stay involved because he had such an attachment to the team. Since the sale has anyone seen or heard of Karmanos being involved in anything? Has he even been at one game?

I know billionaires are different because they can be. One way many are different is that they are willing to mislead the public if they find it advantageous (Zuckerberg, Elizabeth Holmes, Jeffrey Epstein to name a few).

I would not be surprised if the purchase price was less than $400M; if Karmanos had no intention of being involved; if we fans are seen much like the people with car loans.

I could be wrong, but wasn’t the reason Karmanos is “hanging around” was so he get his share of the Seattle expansion money, then he goes away?

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Can Bo’s buy the canes???

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think we are just living and dying too much on every statement of a guy who seems to just say what he's thinking with no filter in any given moment and often makes contradictory statements not that far apart.

I'm still giving him time, but he's clearly a wild card and a mixed bag so far

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

From the athletic at least a somewhat reassuring comment on this:

What’s your take on Dundon’s recent comments about a downtown arena and questioning how “irresponsible” it would be to stay in Carolina long-term?
My take is I’m definitely going to talk to him for a separate article soon and have him elaborate. I feel like people keep posting his comments out of context and it’s about time I tried to clear it up, or why are you guys even paying to read my takes.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

From the athletic at least a somewhat reassuring comment on this:

Yeah, I submitted that question in hopes of getting a follow up. I'm going to link her the original article, just so she has all the context for the quote before the interview.

 

[vorbis]

<gooble gobble>
of the many things I like about Sara Civian, her transparent accountability and good attitude about same are near the top
</gooble gobble>

 

[HisIceness]

I mean, out of context or not, the guy needs to stop talking about nonsensical issues and focus on putting a winning product on the ice, thats what the customers want. Do that and I swear to God everything else will fall into place beautifully.

 

[AD Skinner]

Dundon watches an exciting 5-4 game: "that was great! My team should do that!"

Dundon goes to a downtown arena: "that was great! My team should do that!"

Dundon sees how much money a good team spends on management: "..."

 

[NotOpie]

Weird some sources say he bought in at a 420M and others 500M, can’t seem to figure out what’s the correct number.

I believe that some of the ownership % that was purchased included that from some of the other owners too. That might change the math a bit...

I think we are just living and dying too much on every statement of a guy who seems to just say what he's thinking with no filter in any given moment and often makes contradictory statements not that far apart.

I'm still giving him time, but he's clearly a wild card and a mixed bag so far

^^^This all day. Yes, I'm an optimist and I don't like the "irresponsible" comment either. However, I've negotiated enough deals in my life to know that particular statement was aimed squarely at the Centennial Authority. He wants upgrades to the existing arena. He's willing to pay significant amounts for those upgrades, but because significant benefits will accrue to the CA, he likely wants some consideration from them (either in the form of cooperative investments in the upgrades or as accommodations in the next lease negotiation). Additionally, wasn't there also some talk from Dundon about developing the area around the PNC? Some of his comments might be aimed at the "good ole boys" network that controls that land as well (NC State, Fairgrounds, State of NC, etc.). I think Dundon got pissed when he wanted to move quickly on a bigger jumbotron and was rebuffed because "studies" had to be conducted first (likely both necessary from a safety point of view but also a typical bureaucratic stall tactic).

Plus, I just think he talks out of his ass, isn't afraid of a controversy, and can and does hold conflicting views at the same time....then one of those views wins out.

 

[AeroFishOne]

As someone that’s only ventured to downtown Raleigh once in my 32 years, one idea that would be interesting to me is the transit in. I always wished I could just jump on the train and get off within walking distance of the Canes. A downtown arena might would make that more feasible. Amtrak only has the fairground stop during the state fair and it’s still a fairly long walk away from PNC. The other current issue is that no Trains travel after the games would be over. Having one that travels west after the game ends would be awesome. It would just give one extra option for transit instead of driving.

 

[CandyCanes]

As someone that’s only ventured to downtown Raleigh once in my 32 years, one idea that would be interesting to me is the transit in. I always wished I could just jump on the train and get off within walking distance of the Canes. A downtown arena might would make that more feasible. Amtrak only has the fairground stop during the state fair and it’s still a fairly long walk away from PNC. The other current issue is that no Trains travel after the games would be over. Having one that travels west after the game ends would be awesome. It would just give one extra option for transit instead of driving.

I did the Amtrak to Panthers game out of downtown Raleigh, it was freaking great. This would be really nice if it were to ever happen or our Light Rail finally gets built.

 

[AeroFishOne]

I did the Amtrak to Panthers game out of downtown Raleigh, it was freaking great. This would be really nice if it were to ever happen or our Light Rail finally gets built.

I didn’t know Raleigh was due for a light rail. My nearest Amtrak stations would be High Point or Greensboro. I’d love it just not have to deal with the traffic. Also be nice to just drive up for a game, spend the night and then take the train back without having to worry about a car. We’ve done that to Durham for a couple concerts at Dpac and it was awesome being within walking distance of everything

 

[CandyCanes]

I didn’t know Raleigh was due for a light rail. My nearest Amtrak stations would be High Point or Greensboro. I’d love it just not have to deal with the traffic. Also be nice to just drive up for a game, spend the night and then take the train back without having to worry about a car. We’ve done that to Durham for a couple concerts at Dpac and it was awesome being within walking distance of everything

Both Raleigh & Durham/Chapel Hill have had referendums to help pay for transportation/lightrails. They basically pitched us on lightrails, but so far have only given us road fixes.

Raleigh light rail hasn’t gotten no where. Durham/Chapel Hill light rail has picked up traction, but still isn’t really going anywhere yet. Both cities have talked about a light rail for last 7-8 years and they’ve yet to break ground anywhere.

By the time it happens flying cars will likely be around and it will be a big waste of money.

I totally want a light rail tho and Raleigh / Durham / Chapel Hill could really use it

 

[AeroFishOne]

It’s funny how North Carolina’s transportation stuff is. I love going by Amtrak locally when possible. Raleigh has the station in downtown but nothing major sports related within close distance of it. Charlotte on the other hand has 3 sports teams downtown but no Amtrak station within current safe walking distance until the Gateway Station or whatever they are calling it gets done somewhere in the next 5 years near Bank of America. I’d go to Charlotte more if i could get out right downtown. Problem now is you have to walk a good distance through not great areas because the Amtrak station has been out of the way for many years.

I’m not sure how the downtown food and bar scene is but if they could get some kind of long distance and local mass transit going, I think it would be pretty awesome. And I’ll take back what I said about not being downtown in 32 years but once. It would be once in my adult life and a couple times as a kid.

 

[AD Skinner]

Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!

 

[Lempo]

A Cane Train...

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!

Too bad there's a chance the tracks will bend...