News Article: Dundon on the Arena

[Unsustainable]

You can zoom in, took it off of a FB fan page.

Looks like Dundon wants a downtown arena.
Wanting to turn things into a profit, losing 10-20 million a year is not good.

Click to read more...

 

[CandyCanes]

He’s said before he doesn’t expect to profit before. And can handle the 10-20M losses per year. But sounds like anything more than that he’s got to start reconsidering things.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Sounds like he’s establishing a negotiating position to me.

But, then I’m not a billionaire owner of a middling sports franchise, so...

 

[Blueline Bomber]

*buys a bad hockey team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade*
*Cheaps out on GM/coach which in turn does nothing to improve the team on the ice*
*Continues to lose money*

 

[VaCaps Fan]

PNC was f***ing great at 17,000 on Sunday! The caniacs will show up in good numbers if there is something to watch.

 

[DaveG]

Hey Tom, want to know a good way to make money? Invest enough in the team to ice a competitive roster instead of being 20 mil below the cap. Increased attendance and playoff revenue will make that up and then some.

 

[emptyNedder]

When the Canes were up for sale we were assured that the 16-17 season was profitable--if I remember correctly the number was $3-4M before the Vegas fee to each team. Now we are being told the team is losing as much as $20M.
Also the "seven year guarantee" about relocation was connected with the PNC/Centennial Authority lease.
I believe MinJaBen referred to Occam's Razor a while back. It seems we are more likely dealing with Orwell's Ministry of Truth.

 

[Primetime8]

Statista has operating income at -2.9 million.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

A downtown arena isnt happening. Period.

But if you ice a good team, people will pay to watch.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Some people who I talk hockey regularly via text sent me that article & weren’t exactly thrilled.

I told them that the only 2 cities that are “in the queue” are Houston (though Austin is being talked about now?) & QC. Maybe there is somewhere I missed? And Arizona would have to move 1st, right?

I’ll save my hot taek for another time.

 

[GoldiFox]

If the team is still bad in 7 years then put them out of their misery. Unfortunately that is looking more likely if the owner is complaining about current $20 million in losses, wanting to decrease that to $10 million in losses, all while being $20 million below where the contenders are spending. That is a ~$30 million gap in expectation vs. reality.

 

[DaveG]

Legitimately pisses me off that there is an owner in the league with local ties that is spending what it takes to build a winner in a similar market and we get this cheapass.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm not really sure that there's anything new or shocking there in my mind.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Legitimately pisses me off that there is an owner in the league with local ties that is spending what it takes to build a winner in a similar market and we get this cheapass.

Unfortunate timing. PK wasn't interested in selling till a couple years later. In fairness, if Vinnik sold the lightning now he'd clear a cool couple hundred mil at least in profit from the purchase/sale.

Lacking public transport beyond buses, i fail to see how a downtown arena fixes their problems. Pnc isn't in the middle of nowhere like ottawa or phoenix or rays in tampa bay, it's off the interstate ffs.

At least the city of raleigh and the wolfpack also want a downtown multipurpose arena. So the battle is over who pays for what, and if wake and the state pony up again after only 20 years of pnc/rbc.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

All of the chatter and talk I've seen about a DT arena, keep placing it NEAR or closer to DT . Not in DT. That accomplishes nothing. The whole point is to have it smack dab in the middle of food, drink, and nightlife. A mile south on Wilmington St is just foolish.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

When the Canes were up for sale we were assured that the 16-17 season was profitable--if I remember correctly the number was $3-4M before the Vegas fee to each team.

1) that (likely) included projected revenue sharing, since it's calculated post season. Dundon might not be doing that (so the "10 mil in loss" limit is really break even after revenue sharing).

2) hockey teams are funded with short term loans, repaid as revenue comes in throughout the year (which is why signing bonuses are anathema to poor teams- you don'ttake out a loan for that). Deficits are funded with longer term loans. The team has run up some impressive deficits esp in the early 2000's. This stuff compounds, making it harder to get loans with low interest payments, which is why pk had to dip into his kids trust fund and why the team was a hard sell.

Creative accounting can move that stuff off the books (among other things, what caused the crash in 2008). Here Dundon is putting it front and center as he begs for public money for a downtown arena.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

"When is it irresponsible to be here?"

Wow.

Let me ask the corollary question: "when is it irresponsible to spend my money supporting this team?"

So he's gonna run the arena scam, and we're gonna lose. That's pretty much what the first salvo looks like.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

"When is it irresponsible to be here?"

Wow.

Let me ask the corollary question: "when is it irresponsible to spend my money supporting this team?"

So he's gonna run the arena scam, and we're gonna lose. That's pretty much what the first salvo looks like.

What's insane is how early he brought it up. Not 10 months into his ownership.

He's either posturing (my guess) or didn't do his due diligence properly on the financial side here.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Hey look, it’s Karmanos in Hartford all over again just like I speculated before the sale was even done.

Enjoy the last few years fellas.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The best case scenario here is that he sticks the local community with millions of dollars of tax burden.

Or maybe the best case is that the local community tells him to shove it up his ass and he moves the team to Houston. I'm not actually sure.

Welcome to Big League Sports!

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Houston awaits for the “owner”.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Hey look, it’s Karmanos in Hartford all over again just like I speculated before the sale was even done.

Enjoy the last few years fellas.

At least karmanos wasn't entirely wrong about needing an upgrade.

There's no rail system here to make mass exodus downtown 80+ times a year (canes + wokfpack+ additional concerts) orderly. Pnc location is right off the beltway and interstate while only 5 min from downtown, its easy to get in/out.

He has zero case on why a downtown arena would improve anything. This is the opening for his exit after year 3.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Hey look, it’s Karmanos in Hartford all over again just like I speculated before the sale was even done.

Enjoy the last few years fellas.

I'm not calling it yet.

He'd be crazy to NOT ask for a DT arena. But if it's his hardball exit strategy, good riddance.

 

[FreshSeabass]

He expressed his interested in a Downtown arena, but he does not want to be in the business of owning an arena. He said he would love to develop around a future downtown arena. I guess he wants someone else to foot the bill for a new arena.

 

[Joe McGrath]

At least karmanos wasn't entirely wrong about needing an upgrade.

There's no rail system here to make mass exodus downtown 80+ times a year (canes + wokfpack+ additional concerts) orderly. Pnc location is right off the beltway and interstate while only 5 min from downtown, its easy to get in/out.

He has zero case on why a downtown arena would improve anything. This is the opening for his exit after year 3.

If a downtown arena won’t work, and the current one doesn’t work, isn’t the next logical step, this area isn’t going to work?