Friedman: Duchene & Landy available - Avs want D, won't sell cheap

[caniac247]

Keep Faulk, AVs need long-term help. Faulk has 2 years remaining on his contract and will leave before the AVs turnaround is complete. Canes have missed the last 7 years of playoff contention; with constant losing it hurt the fanbase where they're easily the worst in the NHL with 66% capacity of 11K per game. Duchene can help make the team competitive, otherwise, keep losing and eventually the already small fans will stop[ attending games.

Francis is not going to do a quick fix. He's building the team to be competitive for years. I don't see him trading 19 year old Hanifin for 2.5 years of Duchene. There's no 100% guarantee that Duchene will resign and honestly if I were him, i'd hit the market and cash in. He'll get a lot more money hitting free agency than staying with the Canes.

As much as it would pain me, cause I do think Hanifin is going to be a legit top pair defenseman, I would seriously have to consider a deal around Hanifin and Landeskog.

Slavin, I think we can safely say he is 100% untouchable.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Not if you think 5>3 is more important than Duchene>Landeskog.

 

[GoldiFox]

This is an example of taking competing principles and having the lesser principle yield to the higher principle.

a.) Duchene is the better player signed for three more playoff runs
b.) Landeskog is the lesser player signed for five more playoff runs

I know that you prefer the certainty of five years, but the higher principle of better talent for three years (with the good possibility of contract extension beyond that) should win out here.

You've improved your chances of winning TODAY while keeping all kinds of possibilities and open doors intact for the future.

Except that term is not the only factor. Canes have one of the weakest Winger groups in the NHL and their Centers have all played well during their recent surge. Rask is out producing Duchene, Jordan Staal is locking down top lines, and Teravainen has looked outstanding since being placed at Center.

The main thing the Canes are missing is a winger with size who plays a physical game and can clear space for guys like TT/Aho/Skinner. A guy who can also put up 20-25 goals. That sound familiar?

 

[Donzo]

As a fan of neither team (ok, Avs are my distant 2nd favorite team), Duchene to Carolina makes a ton of sense to me.

I think the Canes are a LOT closer to being contenders than most people realize. For the third year in a row they're playing very good hockey and for the 3rd year in a row they're being sunk by bad goaltending. If the Canes did something around Duchene for Hanifin and signed or traded for even a replacement-level goaltender, I think you'd see a very dangerous team.

 

[MinJaBen]

Convert Faulk into a LHD and get back to us.

Was that the plan when the Avs were talking to the Bruins about Carlo? If we assume that there was some interest there, I'm guessing Faulk's handedness is not the issue.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

All true but if Carolina is smart they would trade for Duchene and then try to sign him to a longer term deal soon after. He would be their #1 center and considering his numbers this season are not great, they could get him for a reasonable price...

They can't. You can't extend a deal until a player is in the final year of the deal.

 

[Iracundia]

Was that the plan when the Avs were talking to the Bruins about Carlo? If we assume that there was some interest there, I'm guessing Faulk's handedness is not the issue.

What if I don't buy into the Carlo rumors?

The Avs could have easily drafted Carlo with the pick from the ROR trade if they wanted him. So 16 months later they are having remorse and want him - I don't buy it.

 

[projexns]

Not if you think 5>3 is more important than Duchene>Landeskog.

If you acknowledge that Duchene is better then you should run with the better hockey player for three years and then worry about contracts.

Duchene's best asset are his wheels so he will age well. Landeskog plays a more physical style which doesn't age as well. You might prefer extending a 28 year-old Duchene more than a 28 year-old Landeskog.

Francis is not going to do a quick fix. He's building the team to be competitive for years. I don't see him trading 19 year old Hanifin for 2.5 years of Duchene. There's no 100% guarantee that Duchene will resign and honestly if I were him, i'd hit the market and cash in. He'll get a lot more money hitting free agency than staying with the Canes.

As much as it would pain me, cause I do think Hanifin is going to be a legit top pair defenseman, I would seriously have to consider a deal around Hanifin and Landeskog.

Slavin, I think we can safely say he is 100% untouchable.

Except that term is not the only factor. Canes have one of the weakest Winger groups in the NHL and their Centers have all played well during their recent surge. Rask is out producing Duchene, Jordan Staal is locking down top lines, and Teravainen has looked outstanding since being placed at Center.

The main thing the Canes are missing is a winger with size who plays a physical game and can clear space for guys like TT/Aho/Skinner. A guy who can also put up 20-25 goals. That sound familiar?

So it's Landeskog instead of Duchene for Hanifin?

I'd prefer that from a Colorado point-of-view, but I've been advocating from a Carolina point-of-view

 

[Bronz]

Duchene for Hanifen is such a perfect fit for both teams

Colorado can dress a top 4 D corps of

Hanifen-Barrie
Zadarov-Johnson

which is very respectively with excellent upside to grow

Carolina can dress a top 9 of

Skinner-Rask-x
x-Duchene-Staal
Aho-Teravainen-Lindholm

That's pretty good and deep.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

You're in for a shock if you think Hanifin is ready for an NHL top pair.

If you acknowledge that Duchene is better then you should run with the better hockey player for three years and then worry about contracts.

Why?

If Landeskog makes up for his lesser ability by being here two extra years, is that not more value? Especially to Carolina, who has never been a player in free agency.

And clearly there's a line to be drawn somewhere, otherwise your course of action, when taken to it's logical conclusion, involves trading away any and all long term assets for assets that help you win now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And if you think it's a good idea to move Jordan Staal to the wing.

 

[agentblack]

Duchene for Hanifen is such a perfect fit for both teams

Colorado can dress a top 4 D corps of

Hanifen-Barrie
Zadarov-Johnson

which is very respectively with excellent upside to grow

Carolina can dress a top 9 of

Skinner-Rask-x
x-Duchene-Staal
Aho-Teravainen-Lindholm

That's pretty good and deep.

uh...i dont know about that one bruh

 

[garnetpalmetto]

As a fan of neither team (ok, Avs are my distant 2nd favorite team), Duchene to Carolina makes a ton of sense to me.

I think the Canes are a LOT closer to being contenders than most people realize. For the third year in a row they're playing very good hockey and for the 3rd year in a row they're being sunk by bad goaltending. If the Canes did something around Duchene for Hanifin and signed or traded for even a replacement-level goaltender, I think you'd see a very dangerous team.

Except not so much. Ward has been solid this season and the defense in front of him has been helping limit the chances he sees to where he's playing like you'd expect from a former Conn Smythe winner. It's been Lack who's been ineffective/injured.

 

[spockBokk]

As a fan of neither team (ok, Avs are my distant 2nd favorite team), Duchene to Carolina makes a ton of sense to me.

I think the Canes are a LOT closer to being contenders than most people realize. For the third year in a row they're playing very good hockey and for the 3rd year in a row they're being sunk by bad goaltending. If the Canes did something around Duchene for Hanifin and signed or traded for even a replacement-level goaltender, I think you'd see a very dangerous team.

Have you taken the time to watch Canes games lately?

Cam Ward's resurgence as a serviceable NHL level goalie is one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, why the Canes have played so well lately. What they need is a backup so Ward isn't run down come March and April.

 

[Donzo]

Have you taken the time to watch Canes games lately?

Cam Ward's resurgence as a serviceable NHL level goalie is one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, why the Canes have played so well lately. What they need is a backup so Ward isn't run down come March and April.

I've seen one Canes game this season. But Ward's numbers for the last several years--heck, for most of his career--don't suggest to me that he's a legitimate starting goaltender on a contender. A couple months of above-average play aren't going to change that.

 

[coldhands]

Not sure if reported yet but the Canucks have sent scouts to watch the Avalanche game tonight. Common occurrence I know... just might be some talks between the two clubs re: Duchene and Landeskog.

 

[cgf]

You're in for a shock if you think Hanifin is ready for an NHL top pair.

Zadorov-EJ were very strong as a top pairing before EJ went down; so Hanifin's pairing wouldn't face the toughest minutes. No clue why that poster posted them as the top pairing.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Not sure if reported yet but the Canucks have sent scouts to watch the Avalanche game tonight. Common occurrence I know... just might be some talks between the two clubs re: Duchene and Landeskog.

Flyers, Hurricanes, Habs, Pens and Canucks all have scouts tonight.

 

[Patagonia]

You're in for a shock if you think Hanifin is ready for an NHL top pair.



Why?

If Landeskog makes up for his lesser ability by being here two extra years, is that not more value? Especially to Carolina, who has never been a player in free agency.

And clearly there's a line to be drawn somewhere, otherwise your course of action, when taken to it's logical conclusion, involves trading away any and all long term assets for assets that help you win now.

Trying to understand your logic? Landy has more term, but not good enough. Duchene is unlikely to sign beyond the 2 year contract for a rebuilding team. You want to offer Faulk (3 years-thanks for correcting) while the AVs are years away from being competitive and plays in toughest division. The team needs a young defencemen Hannifin fits that need, otherwise, they're not good trading partners.

 

[spockBokk]

I've seen one Canes game this season. But Ward's numbers for the last several years--heck, for most of his career--don't suggest to me that he's a legitimate starting goaltender on a contender. A couple months of above-average play aren't going to change that.

The Hurricanes have a long way to go to be considered contenders. They're an elite fwd or 2 away from that, and their young d needs some more time to develop. Hence, the reasoning for this thread to be out here.

What Ward has done is elevate his team into contention for a wildcard spot. He sucked last year and at the start of this year, but he has proven over the first half of this season is that he can be an average, sometimes above average NHL goalie capable of backstopping CAR into the playoffs. What he needs is a backup.

PS-I really doubt GMRF considers moving Hanifin at all until at least the end of next season. I really think that Faulk, Pesce, Slavin and Hanifin would be non-starters from a Canes perspective. If that kills a deal so be it, GMRF has shown so far an aversion to big moves. If a package of 1 of Fleury/Bean/McKeown plus a first and another small add doesn't do it, then the prices for the 2 COL fwds are probably too rich for CAR.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Trying to understand your logic? Landy has more term, but not good enough. Duchene is unlikely to sign beyond the 2 year contract for a rebuilding team. You want to offer Faulk (3 years-thanks for correcting) while the AVs are years away from being competitive and plays in toughest division. The team needs a young defencemen Hannifin fits that need, otherwise, they're not good trading partners.

Um, the Metro has the #1, #2, #5, #6 and #12 best teams in the NHL in it. Really kind of hard to argue that the Metro isn't the best right now.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I'd think about Hanifin for Duchene. It hurts, more so for what Hanifin may become than what he is now, but you don't get Duchene without giving up so etching that hurts, off year or no (though the fact he is producing less than Task is concerning).

I just disagree with projexns logic that all that really matters is winning now, with long term planning being a subsidiary concern- because Francis has actually spoken out against this type of thinking (JR spent years operating this way, to little avail sans 2009).

I know it shouldn't matter a whit, but I don't think Francis wants Hanifin to become his Pronger.

 

[Donzo]

PS-I really doubt GMRF considers moving Hanifin at all until at least the end of next season. I really think that Faulk, Pesce, Slavin and Hanifin would be non-starters from a Canes perspective. If that kills a deal so be it, GMRF has shown so far an aversion to big moves. If a package of 1 of Fleury/Bean/McKeown plus a first and another small add doesn't do it, then the prices for the 2 COL fwds are probably too rich for CAR.

If Fleury is the centerpiece of the deal, I think there's a possibility for it to work, but I think the add (on top of a 2017 1st) is going to have to be at least somewhat significant, either a 2nd or B-level prospect.

 

[projexns]

Why?

If Landeskog makes up for his lesser ability by being here two extra years, is that not more value? Especially to Carolina, who has never been a player in free agency.

You are acknowledging, but then justifying settling for lesser talent.

You mentioned Stan Bowman earlier. He justifys reasons to employ the best talent possible, and deals with problems as they arise IF they arise.

Some would've pre-emptively traded Panarin because there was no way we were going to be able to re-sign him and there was a danger of an offer-sheet. Don't be afraid of winning. Things have a way of working out.

Especially to Carolina, who has never been a player in free agency.

Carolina may not attract a lot of UFA's, but they have a pretty good record of keeping existing players, which would be the case with Duchene.

I just disagree with projexns logic that all that really matters is winning now, with long term planning being a subsidiary concern- because Francis has actually spoken out against this type of thinking (JR spent years operating this way, to little avail sans 2009).

I know it shouldn't matter a whit, but I don't think Francis wants Hanifin to become his Pronger.

Long-term planning is not a subsidiary concern. The long-term planning considers that without Hanifin you would still have your current Top-4 intact which includes Slavin, Pesce and Faulk, and that you have two 1st-rounders in the system in Fleury and Bean.

You are borrowing from that abundant wealth to acquire a young top-line forward with several years left on their contract.

 

[GoldiFox]

You are acknowledging, but then justifying settling for lesser talent.

You mentioned Stan Bowman earlier. He justifys reasons to employ the best talent possible, and deals with problems as they arise IF they arise.

Some would've pre-emptively traded Panarin because there was no way we were going to be able to re-sign him and there was a danger of an offer-sheet. Don't be afraid of winning. Things have a way of working out.



Carolina may not attract a lot of UFA's, but they have a pretty good record of keeping existing players, which would be the case with Duchene.



Long-term planning is not a subsidiary concern. The long-term planning considers that without Hanifin you would still have your current Top-4 intact which includes Slavin, Pesce and Faulk, and that you have two 1st-rounders in the system in Fleury and Bean.

You are borrowing from that abundant wealth to acquire a young top-line forward with several years left on their contract.

Except no GM or asset manager of any kind works that way.

Would you trade Rantanen for JVR because JVR is the better player right now and he gives you the best chance to win now? When you win now it all works out right? Of course not.

Total asset value is an area under the curve over time, not peak or current value.