Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Ola]

dont agree at all that mcilrath was "offensive minded ". ever.

the kid was never invited to or made any canadian national teams and appeared in only 1 all star showcase - where he fought. he had a large shot but never knew how to use it. ever.

mcilrath was a pure reach play and a "fall in love" pick courtesy of gordie clark and based soley on toughness, measurables and projections rather than hockey skills and hockey IQ. at this point, this book has been written.

hockey IQ and skating- for an NHL defenseman, are absolutes. when you pick 10th, you take the best player available who has those 2 attributes above as a minimum, in other words, you start there and work forward.

mcilrath had neither.

A young McIlrath in the WHL was definitely not a stay at home D. He played more of an offensive style.

 

[Edge]

A young McIlrath in the WHL was definitely not a stay at home D. He played more of an offensive style.

We're talking about Dylan McIlrath, right?

 

[Ola]

We're talking about Dylan McIlrath, right?

View attachment 122497

Yup, obviously he always was projected to have a game in the NHL built on physical play and defense — but coming out of kids hockey and playing his early years in the WHL he played an offensive style, tried to get involved a lot AND he was definitely not responsible defensively first.

 

[Edge]

Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaah, definitely not seeing or feeling that one...

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

How were Lias' underlying numbers in the SHL at the same age? Must be difficult to maintain them against men.

Answered above, my bad.

I don't have his CF% from last year but he had good underlying numbers this season and his shot generation and every other metric pre draft was way ahead of Lundeström this year.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I like his playmaking when he's in a position to use it. I like his awareness. IQ and positioning.

I don't think he has the high-end, first line talent, but I think he's a legit first round prospect.

I think it's a bit dismissive to not include him as a first round pick. One of the top picks? No. But when you start getting into that second half talent, he's in that mix.

I think we sometimes tend to view first round picks as all being elite prospects, and the reality is that the by the time you get to the second half of first rounds, you're looking at a mix of guys who are either raw, good-but lacking top line skills, or some other combination of elements.

You start looking at some of those names in the late teens and 20s, the variables become a little more pronounced.

Personally i want to see atleast top 6 upside in my 1st rounders and i don't see that with Lundeström... Add that i don't Think he sticks at C either, i Think he ends up a winger.

 

[Ola]

Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaah, definitely not seeing or feeling that one...

Not my problem!

I saw a lot of him in the WHL after we drafted him. To label his playing style there as a stay-at-home D style just can’t be done. He was up ice a lot. Tried to be as involved as possible. He never really sat back and covered for his partner etc. Played 2nd pairing PP time.

 

[Edge]

Personally i want to see atleast top 6 upside in my 1st rounders and i don't see that with Lundeström... Add that i don't Think he sticks at C either, i Think he ends up a winger.

I think it depends on circumstances.

I'm less included to take a kid with a minimal chance of being a top 6 player, over a guy who has a very good chance of being an effective support player. But there are a lot of variables in place.

As the game has evolved, I've found that I don't really view guys as much through the prism of first line vs. top six vs. top nine. I tend to view them based what they potentially bring to the NHL, how they could be used in certain systems, what combinations I can see them in, etc.

When I look at the names in the latter half of the 2018 first round, I feel you could make a case for Lundestrom. When you start looking at those guys who are popping up in conversations about the second round, I think that's probably a stretch.

 

[Edge]

Not my problem!

I saw a lot of him in the WHL after we drafted him. To label his playing style there as a stay-at-home D style just can’t be done. He was up ice a lot. Tried to be as involved as possible. He never really sat back and covered for his partner etc. Played 2nd pairing PP time.

Kind of like Howden is a power forward?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I'd happily make the argument for Dellandrea, Kaut, Hållander etc over Lundeström.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Kind of like Howden is a power forward?

Was gonna say the same thing

 

[frisland]

Anyone have any thoughts on Foudy / Ylonen as possible late 1st, more likely 2nd round picks?

 

[Ola]

Kind of like Howden is a power forward?

I never said that, I said that I think he has more potential to contribute as winger with some size in the NHL. In more of a power forward role.

Why do you comment about something that you obviously has no clue about? I don’t get that with this place. It’s so annoying.

Like seriously, why do you even post at this place? I don’t think I ever have read anything useful from you. It’s always some bla bla made up crap pretending like you know things that obviously have zero merit.

 

[Edge]

I'd happily make the argument for Dellandrea, Kaut, Hållander etc over Lundeström.

Certainly could. Each has certain pros and cons.

I am particularly intrigued by Kaut.

 

[Ola]

Certainly could. Each has certain pros and cons.

I am particularly intrigued by Kaut.

Oh a draft eligible kid has pros and cons. How insightful...

 

[bobbop]

Are folks thinking they stand pat at #9 or they trade up with the other picks and/or roster players?

Trade up for the right guy (Wahlstrom?)

Stand pat for Dobson.

 

[iamitter]

I think 26 and 38 should get you the 21st

26 & 39 should be enough for ~#12.

 

[bobbop]

To me Kotkaniemi is the real wild card in this draft. I can make an argument for him going anywhere between 3 and 11.

 

[Edge]

I never said that, I said that I think he has more potential to contribute as winger with some size in the NHL. In more of a power forward role.

Why do you comment about something that you obviously has no clue about? I don’t get that with this place. It’s so annoying.

Like seriously, why do you even post at this place? I don’t think I ever have read anything useful from you. It’s always some bla bla made up crap pretending like you know things that obviously have zero merit.

Ola, I like you, but you are the one who keeps bringing up the power forward thing ----

I never said that, I said that I think he has more potential to contribute as winger with some size in the NHL. In more of a power forward role.

I see him more as a potential character PF winger.

I would like to see us mold Howden into a PF LW that kind of can fill the role Kreider does for us now with guys like Chytil and co.

No Howden doesn't really a PF game, no I don't think heights of other players is a measurement to his potential NHL role, no I don't think he looked anything like Brandon Sutter at the same age.

Brett Howden really doesn't play much of a power forward game per say. I really don't know what else to tell you.

You keep commenting on the WHL kids with out of left field takes that don't line up with anything out there from people who've seen these kids, and then you get frustrated that people aren't just nodding their heads in agreement.

What is that I have no clue about?

My batting average on telling you what to expect from prospects has been pretty solid --- BEFORE they reach the NHL.

Giving a reasonable idea of what the Rangers might get in trades BEFORE the deals were (and in spite of some more optimistic projections).

You know I don't post rumors out there, for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that A) They can change quickly, and B) In today's sport, people track the internet and can usually do a decent job of tracing where a rumor came from. It's not like it was in 1997 or 1999 where it was a little easier to drop inside information. This of course says nothing about the fact that teams don't regularly disclose their inner most thoughts heading into a draft. But I do drop certain bits of info, if I feel reasonably okay doing so --- aka my line about Edmonton the other day. While you can usually get an idea of who a team likes, it becomes more difficult to nail down who they'll take. But even then, I am not going to expose the people I know and talk to and jeopardize their livelihood. Many of these people are friends and colleagues I've known for more than 20 years. But even then, there's not many wild takes I throw out there.

I don't think this is really about me. I think you're pissed because you've thrown some interesting takes out there, especially concerning the WHL, and you're not quite getting the level of support you thought you'd receive.

That's a you problem, not a me problem.

 

[Edge]

Oh a draft eligible kid has pros and cons. How insightful...

Maybe because I've already talked about a lot of these kids in-depth to this point?

I've talked about Kaut. I've talked about Lundestrom.

Not gonna lie, there's only so many pages of notes I can keep re-typing over a 6 or 9 month span.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Yeah over the last few weeks I’m really starting to want Hughes, Wahlstrom, or Tkachuk, in that order.

I think Wahlstrom could be there at 9. Don’t expect Tkachuk or Hughes to be.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Ola, I like you, but you are the one who keeps bringing up the power forward thing ----







No Howden doesn't really a PF game, no I don't think heights of other players is a measurement to his potential NHL role, no I don't think he looked anything like Brandon Sutter at the same age.

Brett Howden really doesn't play much of a power forward game per say. I really don't know what else to tell you.

You keep commenting on the WHL kids with out of left field takes that don't line up with anything out there from people who've seen these kids, and then you get frustrated that people aren't just nodding their heads in agreement.

What is that I have no clue about?

My batting average on telling you what to expect from prospects has been pretty solid --- BEFORE they reach the NHL.

Giving a reasonable idea of what the Rangers might get in trades BEFORE the deals were (and in spite of some more optimistic projections).

You know I don't post rumors out there, for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that A) They can change quickly, and B) In today's sport, people track the internet and can usually do a decent job of tracing where a rumor came from. It's not like it was in 1997 or 1999 where it was a little easier to drop inside information. This of course says nothing about the fact that teams don't regularly disclose their inner most thoughts heading into a draft. But I do drop certain bits of info, if I feel reasonably okay doing so --- aka my line about Edmonton the other day. While you can usually get an idea of who a team likes, it becomes more difficult to nail down who they'll take. But even then, I am not going to expose the people I know and talk to and jeopardize their livelihood. Many of these people are friends and colleagues I've known for more than 20 years. But even then, there's not many wild takes I throw out there.

I don't think this is really about me. I think you're pissed because you've thrown some interesting takes out there, especially concerning the WHL, and you're not quite getting the level of support you thought you'd receive.

That's a you problem, not a me problem.

What did I miss about Edmonton?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yeah over the last few weeks I’m really starting to want Hughes, Wahlstrom, or Tkachuk, in that order.

I think Wahlstrom could be there at 9. Don’t expect Tkachuk or Hughes to be.

New dream scenario -

Wahlstrom at 9, Zuccarello dealt for Florida or Dallas’ 1st, take a falling Boqvist.

 

[Edge]

What did I miss about Edmonton?

Hearing that they have a keen interest in Bokk and it wouldn't be shocking if they even went for him at the 10 spot.

Will that come to fruition.

But it's out there.

Certain names are starting to routinely pop up for certain teams.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Hearing that they have a keen interest in Bokk and it wouldn't be shocking if they even went for him at the 10 spot.

Will that come to fruition.

But it's out there.

Certain names are starting to routinely pop up for certain teams.

Wow, Bokk at 10, that would be a reach, i would think. Is he really rising that fast?