Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Savant]

Crawley
Sjalin
Day
Reunanen
Zbrovskiy
Mantha
Wolcott

They've drafted like crap since 2014 when it comes to defensemen, even though I really like Sjalin and I think he eventually makes it.

This is the draft where they make up for it. First two picks should be two-way defensemen with size, good speed and smarts. And there are a lot of them. If I go by my rankings, they can walk away with both Evan Bouchard, Jared McIssac or Noah Dobson or and one of Matias Samuelsson, Rasmus Sandin or Filip Johansson with picks in the mid-1st and mid-2nd. They can grab two more in the later rounds like overagers Tommy Miller, Colin Gerber or Joey Keane, or add Stralman types in the 5th-6th like Santeri Salmela or Merrick Rippon.

The defense is the No. 1 area of weakness both at the pro and minor-league level. They have youth up front and guys like Miller and Hayes are still a few years away from their prime. Zucc can probably play until he's in his late 30s. Buch replaces Nash. Fast and Nieves are still young. Zibanejad is still 24. Kreider is 26.

Fix the defense. Kids are debuting at 19 or 20 now. Drafting high-end defense prospects and they'll be in the NHL in two years.

Don't be like stupid Jerry Reese, throwing scotch tape on a machete slash. Drafting/acquiring quality mobile defensemen -- Staal, Del Zotto, McDonagh, Sauer, Girardi, Stralman -- is what turned the Rangers from a decent team to a contender. Outside of Del Zotto all the dmen I mentioned were excellent in their prime in terms of decision making, breakouts and coverage.

Fix it. This is the draft to fix it. I swear if Gorton and Clark wreck this draft I'll never forgive them. People have been talking about this draft for 3-4 years.

Sjalin is the only of of those guys with a chance unless a miracle happens with Day.

I think they might be in McIssac range, but also think McIssac may be one to shoot up the draft board. I really hope they can come out of the draft with him or Smith. I am also interested where K’Andre Miller winds up.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

What's the scouting report on Bode Wilde? Just curious.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Själin, Day and Reunanen were good picks. Crawley seems like a fine pick too, stepping into the AHL right away and not being awful right after the draft is fine for a 4th (?) rounder. Gotta remember where we pick these players, it matters. Think it's disingenuous to say we've drafted like crap and then list a bunch of players drafted late 3rd or later.

With that said, i agree that it makes sense to target a D-man here, though i think we need a scoring winger too, would be cool if we could get another top 62 pick or two and fill both needs.

 

[UnSandvich]

If Day puts it all together (which, at this point, is a crapshoot), he could end up as a Top 4 Dman. I think that was worth taking a chance on late in the 3rd round. He's got 16 pts in 20 games this season, and is on pace to surpass his career best by a decent margin

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Yeah, Day was definitely a good pick where he was taken, as was Reunanen... No matter how they turn out, i feel very strongly about that.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, Day was definitely a good pick where he was taken, as was Reunanen... No matter how they turn out, i feel very strongly about that.

That's often what I mean when I refer to the "context" in which a pick was made.

Taking a flyer on Day with a first round pick is bad within the context of where the pick is and who is on the board. Taking a flyer on Day with a third round pick is good.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

That's often what I mean when I refer to the "context" in which a pick was made.

Taking a flyer on Day with a first round pick is bad within the context of where the pick is and who is on the board. Taking a flyer on Day with a third round pick is good.

Exactly, i'm right with you there. People need to add context to picks. This is why i'm so high on Ronning and Gettinger, they're late rounders that are looking like potential NHLers, that's a win right there.

 

[Lion Hound]

Loved the Day pick when it happened and still do now. There is just too much of a skillset for such a big player. I still don't think there is a better skating Defenseman in the organization. That includes Skjei. Hope he continues to mature into the player we all hoped he would.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Day sure is getting the ice time and responsibility to work on rounding out his game this season atleast, Windsor is riding him HARD. I can't watch the games though so not sure if he is infact improving a lot or not.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What's the scouting report on Bode Wilde? Just curious.

Big, very good skater, excellent shot, good passer, raw defensively, maybe not the highest hockey IQ.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Big, very good skater, excellent shot, good passer, raw defensively, maybe not the highest hockey IQ.

Size, good skater, raw... Sounds like the prototypical Rangers pick lol, atleast if we go back ~5 years.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I won't complain, I just don't think he'll get out of the top 10.

 

[Savant]

Big, very good skater, excellent shot, good passer, raw defensively, maybe not the highest hockey IQ.

Size, good skater, raw... Sounds like the prototypical Rangers pick lol, atleast if we go back ~5 years.

Sounds like Matt Dumba

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I saw a Shea Weber comparison not too long ago, its not that apt because he hasn't grown as big as Weber, but its a similar type of ceiling, if he can ever figure out the defensive side of the game.

 

[Lion Hound]

What's the scouting report on Bode Wilde? Just curious.

Here's one. Source is Black Book. I can't post too much otherwise ill get another infraction.

Wilde, Bode
RD – USA NTDP-17 (USHL) 6'02.75" 191
Wilde was head and shoulders above the competition a few seasons ago with his size, skating ability, shot,
and passing. Of course, the hockey pyramid gets tighter at the top, yet Wilde still has many natural tools.
He can sometimes force the play and the offensive domination from the back end has slowed down.
Although the NTDP-17 team struggled down the stretch and will have a new coach for the upcoming
season. Wilde is still flying high on the draft radar with new opportunity to fully shine again in his draft year.
Like Wahlstrom, he is committed to Harvard (ECAC) for the 2018-19 season.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Ah, thanks guys.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Context, lol.

Shit. Why not use context to justify every decision we ever make in life?

"Now introducing, Context -- your lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card!!!!"


"Hugh Jessiman was a good draft pick because at the time, it was a good pick when the Rangers made it."

"Trading Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge was a good trade because at the time, the Rangers knew Hodge was better for them than Middleton."

"Buying real estste in Yemen instead of Nashville in 2000 was a good idea because at the time, I viewed Yemen as the better option."

"Hitler invading Russia in 1941 was a good decision because at the time, the German Army was better than the Red Army."

"Getting an STD instead of using protection was a good idea because at the time, I felt going raw dog was the better decision."

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Context, lol.

****. Why not use context to justify every decision we ever make in life?

"Now introducing, Context -- your lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card!!!!"


"Hugh Jessiman was a good draft pick because at the time, it was a good pick when the Rangers made it."

"Trading Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge was a good trade because at the time, the Rangers knew Hodge was better for them than Middleton."

"Buying real estste in Yemen instead of Nashville in 2000 was a good idea because at the time, I viewed Yemen as the better option."

"Hitler invading Russia in 1941 was a good decision because at the time, the German Army was better than the Red Army."

"Getting an STD instead of using protection was a good idea because at the time, I felt going raw dog was the better decision."

I assume your talking about taking Day in 2016, if not just disregard this lol.
But if you are yes heindsight is 20/20 but at the time takig day made sense. We didnt have a first or a second so they took a gamble on a guy who at one point was believed to be a top end guy. Yes obviously in heinsight now you would of hoped we would of taken a guy like a mete instead but with our situation in terms of picks in that draft it made sense doing what we done. So yes context does matter.

 

[brians1128]

Crawley
Sjalin
Day
Reunanen
Zbrovskiy
Mantha
Wolcott



They've drafted like crap since 2014 when it comes to defensemen, even though I really like Sjalin and I think he eventually makes it.

This is the draft where they make up for it. First two picks should be two-way defensemen with size, good speed and smarts. And there are a lot of them. If I go by my rankings, they can walk away with both Evan Bouchard, Jared McIssac or Noah Dobson or and one of Matias Samuelsson, Rasmus Sandin or Filip Johansson with picks in the mid-1st and mid-2nd. They can grab two more in the later rounds like overagers Tommy Miller, Colin Gerber or Joey Keane, or add Stralman types in the 5th-6th like Santeri Salmela or Merrick Rippon.

The defense is the No. 1 area of weakness both at the pro and minor-league level. They have youth up front and guys like Miller and Hayes are still a few years away from their prime. Zucc can probably play until he's in his late 30s. Buch replaces Nash. Fast and Nieves are still young. Zibanejad is still 24. Kreider is 26.

Fix the defense. Kids are debuting at 19 or 20 now. Drafting high-end defense prospects and they'll be in the NHL in two years.

Don't be like stupid Jerry Reese, throwing scotch tape on a machete slash. Drafting/acquiring quality mobile defensemen -- Staal, Del Zotto, McDonagh, Sauer, Girardi, Stralman -- is what turned the Rangers from a decent team to a contender. Outside of Del Zotto all the dmen I mentioned were excellent in their prime in terms of decision making, breakouts and coverage.

Fix it. This is the draft to fix it. I swear if Gorton and Clark wreck this draft I'll never forgive them. People have been talking about this draft for 3-4 years.

100% we need a defensive first right hand defenseman and a two-way left handed defenseman. Now we need a nash for a first and holden for a second so we can sprinkle in bokk for our right handed shoot first winger and someone else. McIssac, Dobson, Bokk, ?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Context, lol.

****. Why not use context to justify every decision we ever make in life?

"Now introducing, Context -- your lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card!!!!"


"Hugh Jessiman was a good draft pick because at the time, it was a good pick when the Rangers made it."

"Trading Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge was a good trade because at the time, the Rangers knew Hodge was better for them than Middleton."

"Buying real estste in Yemen instead of Nashville in 2000 was a good idea because at the time, I viewed Yemen as the better option."

"Hitler invading Russia in 1941 was a good decision because at the time, the German Army was better than the Red Army."

"Getting an STD instead of using protection was a good idea because at the time, I felt going raw dog was the better decision."

Eh, okey... This is dumb...

I wasn't around for the Jessiman pick but from what i've read it wasn't a good pick on draft day either so????

And the rest is just nonsense.

Edit: If you don't think it's worth noting the context in where a player was picked when you judge if he's panned out of if he was a good pick then i'm not sure what to say.

But hey, if you'd rather throw a f***ing hizzy fit then have a civil discussion have at it.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I assume your talking about taking Day in 2016, if not just disregard this lol.
But if you are yes heindsight is 20/20 but at the time takig day made sense. We didnt have a first or a second so they took a gamble on a guy who at one point was believed to be a top end guy. Yes obviously in heinsight now you would of hoped we would of taken a guy like a mete instead but with our situation in terms of picks in that draft it made sense doing what we done. So yes context does matter.

Day was drafted almost exactly where I predicted he would go. The difference is I had him going to a team that already had a 1st and a 2nd, and the gamble was worth it in the 3rd.

The Rangers didn't treat that 3rd round pick like they should of -- that pick was their personal 1st rounder and should have been treated as a piece to draft a player who was going to play in the NHL for many years regardless of role.

The Rangers were not in a position to gamble in 2016.

 

[mike14]

Context, lol.

****. Why not use context to justify every decision we ever make in life?

"Now introducing, Context -- your lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card!!!!"


"Hugh Jessiman was a good draft pick because at the time, it was a good pick when the Rangers made it."

"Trading Rick Middleton for Ken Hodge was a good trade because at the time, the Rangers knew Hodge was better for them than Middleton."

"Buying real estste in Yemen instead of Nashville in 2000 was a good idea because at the time, I viewed Yemen as the better option."

"Hitler invading Russia in 1941 was a good decision because at the time, the German Army was better than the Red Army."

"Getting an STD instead of using protection was a good idea because at the time, I felt going raw dog was the better decision."

there's a difference between "shit excuse" and "context", you know that right?
Almost all decisions are made using some frame of context, which is why it is important that context is understood and factored into the decision making.
It's also important to realise there is a difference between hindsight and context.

An example of context: I have pick 10 in the draft. On my draft board I have a winger at 10 and a D-man at 13. In my farm system I have 1 d-man who projects to be an NHLer, and 3 wingers who project to be top 9 forwards. Based on this context, I'll draft the D-man even though he's lower on my draft chart

 

[Ori]

1941 was a huge mistake - they actually lost the war based on that tactical decision, and many froze to death and machinery stopped working due to extreme cold winters deep into Russia, and they lost territory really fast based on that mistake some years after and they finally lost the war. But I`m glad they lost it, because it`s just wrong. And a sad history and older people who still remember it voted against the EU Union so we`re outside just like England, but it doesn`t really matter in today society we still trade with most of the countries in this world even China after some hard time with them in some years based on nobel prizes without being too political.

Anyway, just back to the topic @Amazing Kreiderman mentioned in another thread - it`s normal that draft pick progress goes up/down in a development curve years after players are drafted - and many will not keep up their expectations based on their draft ranking in their draft year.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Day was drafted almost exactly where I predicted he would go. The difference is I had him going to a team that already had a 1st and a 2nd, and the gamble was worth it in the 3rd.

The Rangers didn't treat that 3rd round pick like they should of -- that pick was their personal 1st rounder and should have been treated as a piece to draft a player who was going to play in the NHL for many years regardless of role.

The Rangers were not in a position to gamble in 2016.

Um it's a third round pick. Every third round pick is a gamble.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Eh, okey... This is dumb...

I wasn't around for the Jessiman pick but from what i've read it wasn't a good pick on draft day either so????

And the rest is just nonsense.

Edit: If you don't think it's worth noting the context in where a player was picked when you judge if he's panned out of if he was a good pick then i'm not sure what to say.

But hey, if you'd rather throw a ****ing hizzy fit then have a civil discussion have at it.

It's not worth noting the context or the round or the pick when the Rangers in terms of skaters are on the verge of three straight drafts where they don't own a single prospect of significant worth.

It's an inexcusably bad trend and they're obviously doing something wrong. For the last two years I've seen posters like you pump up the tires of marginal prospects ad nauseum, clinging to BS excuses like context and poor AHL coaching etc.

They've drafted like shit and have a weak prospect pool because of it. Context isn't something to hide behind.

You were a big anti-Mittestadt guy because of 5v5 numbers last year. Was wondering your thoughts on these 5v5 numbers on Sean Day, who is in his fifth-full OHL season:

Rank among OHL defensemen

Age: 23rd oldest
eTOI/GP: 1st
eP/60: 47th
eA1/60: 36th
Shots: 31st
eS/60: 77th
GF% rel: 31st

Here's another one for you:

Only two defensemen in the entire history of the OHL (P.S . -- it's a really, really old league) played five full OHL seasons and went on to appear in 150+ NHL games -- Dennis Wideman and Dalton Prout.

And Wideman -- an 8th-round pick as an overager -- was 2nd in the OHL in defense scoring and led in goals by a defenseman.

Sean Day ain't Dennis Wideman.

there's a difference between "**** excuse" and "context", you know that right?
Almost all decisions are made using some frame of context, which is why it is important that context is understood and factored into the decision making.
It's also important to realise there is a difference between hindsight and context.

An example of context: I have pick 10 in the draft. On my draft board I have a winger at 10 and a D-man at 13. In my farm system I have 1 d-man who projects to be an NHLer, and 3 wingers who project to be top 9 forwards. Based on this context, I'll draft the D-man even though he's lower on my draft chart

Context doesn't excuse poor decisions. It merely explains them.

The Rangers are on the verge of going three straight drafts (2014-16) without producing a single NHL skater.