Does Tim Thomas get too much credit for 2011?

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,127
Hockeytown, MI
In 2011, when he had all the save pct. hype and whatever, the GMs were not overly impressed. Despite a 2.00 and a .938, he only received 17 of 30 first place votes. He didn't even appear on four ballots. He edged out Pekka Rinne by a small margin.

Thomas' raw save percentage in 2010-11 broke the single-season record* previously set in 1998-99.

Vezina Voting
Thomas, 2010-11: (17-5-4; missing on 4 ballots)
Hasek, 1998-99: (8-10-3; missing on 6 ballots)

Sometimes GMs are not impressed with impressive things.
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
13,838
18,828
Las Vegas
"Facetious" doesn't really fit in that sentence. But, yeah, Hodge is being a little too kind to Thomas.

Hodge won the back-half of the Hart voting in 1964 (43 votes to Howe's 40). And was the number one goalie in MVP voting by a considerable margin. Hodge follows up in 1965 by placing 2nd in MVP voting in the first half of the season, finishing 5th overall (first among all Montreal players, which says plenty).

Hodge is fighting off guys like Glenn Hall, Terry Sawchuk, Johnny Bower for votes in net alone...

Thomas is fighting off...what...Lundqvist and Luongo...there is a major dearth in talent in net around that time, so he was uncontested and still didn't really runaway with anything relatively speaking...

Thomas received no first place votes in 2009 and was not the first goalie in Hart trophy voting even (Steve Mason) and Chara, his lifeblood, received a similar amount of MVP votes.

In Thomas' record breaking* (?) season in 2011, there was also not a ton of interest in his MVP candidacy. One first place vote (Jack Edwards?) and again not even the top goalie in MVP voting (Rinne). He wasn't particularly close to Corey Perry or Daniel Sedin...in what is clearly a very, very weak MVP class. One of the weakest I can recall.

In 2009, he won the Vezina handily against studs like rookie Steve Mason and below average starter Niklas Backstrom...the second best Nick Backstrom that has played in the NHL in the last decade...

In 2011, when he had all the save pct. hype and whatever, the GMs were not overly impressed. Despite a 2.00 and a .938, he only received 17 of 30 first place votes. He didn't even appear on four ballots. He edged out Pekka Rinne by a small margin.

The people more predisposed to being wowed by highlights and averaging stats were won over, as you might imagine, as the media heaped praise on him with 92 first place votes for the all-star team...which he coasted to with twice as many points over Rinne.

For comparison, in 2010, Ryan Miller - who had a fine season, but nothing terribly noteworthy in another weak year for goaltending - nabbed 23 of 30 first place votes and appeared on 28 ballots of 30 with his 2.22/.929 season. He got more love from the GMs (rightfully so) because he was dealt a much tougher hand than Thomas, as the talent evaluators knew it. Unlike Thomas in a 30-team league with backups, Hodge was actually able to hang around in the league even during the O6 days. In fact, his best seasons came when the league felt it had enough talent to double the amount of the clubs in one season. So, yeah, Hodge is too kind to Thomas...who would have never made a 21-team league with backups, much less a six-team with few.

facetious..."treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant."

ummm, yeah. it does considering he equated Thomas to the career of a back up goalie

(MOD DELETED - WATCH THE FANBASE ATTACKS)

Only 6 goalies have won more than 1 Vezina (Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Bobrovski and Thomas)

Brodeur has 3 Cups, 0 Smythes
Dryden has 6 Cups, 0 Smythes
Hasek has 2 Cups, 0 Smythes
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: McGarnagle

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
13,597
8,252
NYC
www.hockeyprospect.com
- Good. You've identified the problem and usage error, now the issue is fixing it.

- Hodge is a career backup compared to Thomas...? Hmph...that's an interesting take...

- I'm still not a Habs fan...maybe that suggestion will be made tomorrow too...?

Ok...? Bill Durnan had a much, much better career than Tim Thomas. Durnan was also ambidextrous, whereas Thomas can use neither hand effectively. Durnan had to wait like 15 years to get in the HHOF and I still don't think his number is retired in Montreal. So that's good bar room philosophy, but it's not going to work out here unfortunately...

Many more than six goalies have won multiple Vezinas...so I'd check the facts on that, they seem to be optional in that post. Moreover, how come only three of the goalies are listed? Inquiring minds might want to know where Patrick Roy would fall on that list for instance? Or is that considered deification...?
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,781
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
facetious..."treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant."

ummm, yeah. it does considering he equated Thomas to the career of a back up goalie

(MOD DELETED - WATCH THE FANBASE ATTACKS)

Only 6 goalies have won more than 1 Vezina (Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Bobrovski and Thomas)

Brodeur has 3 Cups, 0 Smythes
Dryden has 6 Cups, 0 Smythes
Hasek has 2 Cups, 0 Smythes

List of Vezina Trophy winners since the start:

NHL Vezina Trophy Winners | Hockey-Reference.com

truth never gets twisted does it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
13,838
18,828
Las Vegas
Last edited by a moderator:

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
13,597
8,252
NYC
www.hockeyprospect.com
I guess the better question is, why - for these specific purposes - would we erase ~70 years of league history to try to make a point about the alleged spectacle that is Tim Thomas? By not attempting to account for pre-GM voting Vezinas, you're just make it all that much less impressive...particularly when the first 10-15 years of that goaltending had fallen well behind the offensive side of the game and is generally poorly regarded. Basically you're saying he's one of few guys since the mid-1990's to do this...and he's the only one who couldn't hack it in the league on either side of doing it.

The data was there to maybe make a more interesting point. But it was truncated at its own expense...which works for my side of the discussion just fine.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad