Does this tournament mean anything to Russia?

[stampedingviking]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Olympic gold is important to a certain extent, but we Canadians know the difference when it's best vs. best and we put a lot more importance in that. I personally care for this tournament and I want Canada to win this gold because it would add to Canada's Olympic team total medal count, but it's ridiculous to think that we'd celebrate the same way without our best players there. Olympic gold with the best players in the world is a higher level, this is a 2nd tier tournament hockey-wise.

So the Olympics have only been worth winning for the last 20 years? Just because the best players are there doesn't mean the gold has a greater value.

 

[Clrs]

I agree entirely with stampedingviking. They don't let other nations prefer hockey their own way. If they don't watch, who cares. We watch.

 

[stampedingviking]

Not a Russian but if they win Gold I couldn't imagine this being a wonderful achievement in their eyes.

For one, many don't even feel like they should be participating in these Olympics to begin with. Two, if they win Gold, they will have needed all North American NHL players especially out of the way in order to do so. How is that even something to celebrate? Doesn't make sense to me.

North American by any chance?

The arrogance shown by some NA posters is astounding.

 

[stampedingviking]

Lots of people i'm sure will celebrate a gold medal and rightfully so. That said die hard hockey fans will probably not consider it as much of an achievement since it's not a best on best tournament.

Die hard NA hockey fans, maybe.

 

[JackSlater]

Canada winning that tournament (without McDavid) says a lot more about true power in hockey than Germany winning these Winter Games.

That's nice. It was still unfortunately a joke tournament.

the world cup was run by a PRIVATE league. That you misinterpreted it as being faux-international is on you, not the NHL.

And its replacing a very high quality tournament because the very same private league isnt a altruist looking to enrich some ( fundamentally corrupt) third party who doesnt give a crap about hockey. if this also bothers you, it is again on you and not the league.

I misinterpreted nothing. The NHL presented it as an international tournament, literally calling it an international tournament, and it was not. Once again though you are barking up the wrong tree in your quest to defend the NHL's stupidity. The NHL organized a joke tournament, unfortunately. Whether you think the NHL was right to do that is irrelevant to the post I made that you quoted.

 

[shtorm2005]

For years NA teams were composed with only NHL super stars while other countries were half pro half amateur. And now when everyone is amateur they refuse to consider olympic gold important since there is more competition for them than before. Pathetic.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

For years NA teams were composed with only NHL super stars while other countries were half pro half amateur. And now when everyone is amateur they refuse to consider olympic gold important since there is more competition for them than before. Pathetic.

While I understand the point you are making, it is a little off. There are a lot of players in the tournament who are playing hockey for a paycheck, they are in professional leagues, they just are not in the NHL. I am sure I am in a minority us US/Canada fans when I say I think it is great a team like Germany has a shot at gold.

 

[chauron]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Olympic gold is important to a certain extent, but we Canadians know the difference when it's best vs. best and we put a lot more importance in that. I personally care for this tournament and I want Canada to win this gold because it would add to Canada's Olympic team total medal count, but it's ridiculous to think that we'd celebrate the same way without our best players there. Olympic gold with the best players in the world is a higher level, this is a 2nd tier tournament hockey-wise.

Why as a Canadian, you are replying on behalf of russians?

 

[SirKillalot]

For years NA teams were composed with only NHL super stars while other countries were half pro half amateur. And now when everyone is amateur they refuse to consider olympic gold important since there is more competition for them than before. Pathetic.

Well, they are all pro. However, they have always been high up when they participate with a superior roster. Saying, "well we are playing on equal terms", fully knowing that there are ten times more arenas in one city over there than entire countries over here. Always saying "we got so much depth we can play with our K team". And now, when they played with their K team or maybe a team even outside the alphabet, it's not worth something because they can't play their superior roster.

Every tournament you play, it's best available. It's not "best vs. best". Even so, Canada was seen as arguably the 2nd best team in the tournament (At least by European media, with Sweden, Finland and the US being among that group behind Russia who were favorites). They got upset. Huge upset. They should have no business being outside the final. It's a failure. It's a failure that counts no matter how much they try saying it doesn't. A bigger failure than losing in 1998 and 2006.

 

[shtorm2005]

Well, they are all pro.

they are in professional leagues

Im sorry, by pro players I meant from NHL and by amateur, other professional leagues.

 

[chauron]

For years NA teams were composed with only NHL super stars while other countries were half pro half amateur. And now when everyone is amateur they refuse to consider olympic gold important since there is more competition for them than before. Pathetic.

Everybody’s a pro still. Canadians in KHL make huge amounts of money

 

[JackSlater]

For years NA teams were composed with only NHL super stars while other countries were half pro half amateur. And now when everyone is amateur they refuse to consider olympic gold important since there is more competition for them than before. Pathetic.

It's an interesting narrative you are trying to create, even if we ignore the erroneous amateur claim, but it isn't accurate. Not to speak for Americans, but the issue for many Canadians is that these are far from the best players, for Canada and for everyone else. It isn't about whether there is more or less competition, in fact people are more invested when there is more competition provided that the best are there. It's the same reason that people in Canada generally don't care very much about the various times the Canadian amateur players won Olympic gold medals. It just made the Olympic tournament look a bit ridiculous that Canadian amateurs, far from the best players in the world, could go play and win the tournament. This is part of the reason that the tournament's value in general is lower in Canada, but that's a discussion for a different topic I suppose.

It's very simple from a North American perspective - people want to see the best in an international tournament. If it isn't the best, particularly if it is far from the best, people are going to care a lot less. People can twist and turn all they want but that is reality. The European perspective seems very strange to me. Perhaps people in Europe would still value the World Cup even if players from English, Spanish, Italian, German and French leagues were not allowed to participate, I don't really know. But that simply isn't the case in Canada or USA among most who are aware of the level of the tournament.

 

[Fantomas]

It's very simple from a North American perspective - people want to see the best in an international tournament. If it isn't the best, particularly if it is far from the best, people are going to care a lot less.

Which is precisely why I stopped caring about short-track speed skating after they banned Ahn from the games.

 

[NyQuil]

Which is precisely why I stopped caring about short-track speed skating after they banned Ahn from the games.

See, you do understand.

 

[Fantomas]

Russia already failed at the one tournament that mattered the most - the World Cup. They gave their best with their best roster, and finished 4th.

It is sad. Even sadder is the fact that nobody cares about the World Cup.

 

[Pouchkine]

Are medal winners in this olympics benefiting from the exclusion of the top Russian athletes being diminished?

 

[Pouchkine]

It is sad. Even sadder is the fact that nobody cares about the World Cup.

Not even Canada who famously forgot the cup in their lockeroom after the 2004 joke final.

 

[Jon Riley]

It's very simple from a North American perspective - people want to see the best in an international tournament. If it isn't the best, particularly if it is far from the best, people are going to care a lot less. People can twist and turn all they want but that is reality. The European perspective seems very strange to me. Perhaps people in Europe would still value the World Cup even if players from English, Spanish, Italian, German and French leagues were not allowed to participate, I don't really know. But that simply isn't the case in Canada or USA among most who are aware of the level of the tournament.

Of course, I cannot even speak in behalf of my family, let alone a whole continent, but my take is simple: of course I want to see the best possible in an international tournament,
but since I cannot have it, why should I care a lot less about the tournament?
It's still the sport I want to watch, with players that are doing everything they can to win and the entertainment that these matches bring is not in any way lower than when the superstars are there. If only, this situation brought more "parity", a concept that in NA seems very cherished since they even have rules that benefit teams that sucks.
The only reason to watch sport is for its entertainment value, I may not get to see McDavid skating around, but that does not prevent me from enjoying Germany beating Canada 4-3 in one of the most exciting matches of the last few olympic editions.

 

[sandysan]

That's nice. It was still unfortunately a joke tournament.



I misinterpreted nothing. The NHL presented it as an international tournament, literally calling it an international tournament, and it was not. Once again though you are barking up the wrong tree in your quest to defend the NHL's stupidity. The NHL organized a joke tournament, unfortunately. Whether you think the NHL was right to do that is irrelevant to the post I made that you quoted.

The IIHF "does" international tournaments, the nhl as a private league can make their own damn rules, and did (team leftover Europe and younf guns). What the nhl did was trade. On demand for best on best hockey but if you could not discern the. Difference, that's on you.

I like ham sandwiches. The world cup isn't a ham sandwich, should we blane the nhl or acknowledge what things ARE and not what we would like them to be?

 

[Passionis]

I'm just proud that outside of nhl russia can field such a good team. And as a Russian fan, it's a great sign with the team being so young. Its too bad that nhl players aren't there but this is one of the best tournaments I've seen in a while. Russia feels like they are properly prepared for it with a good long camp and synchronized players, instead of scrambling to synch last minute nhl players.

If Canada and USA can't manage to bring better players to win a gold they should talk to nhl.. Quiet frankly it's their problem.

The other thing I noticed is difference in media.. This tournament and men's team is basically laughed at in canada. Such a deep contrast with russia where they are proud, it's just a much more positive atmosphere and more enjoyable. I'm sure canadian players must feel lack of support.

 

[sandysan]

So the Olympics have only been worth winning for the last 20 years? Just because the best players are there doesn't mean the gold has a greater value.

Winning best on best DOESN'T have more value than best of those available????

I guess if you can't win best on best then any artifice that allows you. To win looks promising.

 

[Rob]

Well, they are all pro. However, they have always been high up when they participate with a superior roster. Saying, "well we are playing on equal terms", fully knowing that there are ten times more arenas in one city over there than entire countries over here. Always saying "we got so much depth we can play with our K team". And now, when they played with their K team or maybe a team even outside the alphabet, it's not worth something because they can't play their superior roster.

Every tournament you play, it's best available. It's not "best vs. best". Even so, Canada was seen as arguably the 2nd best team in the tournament (At least by European media, with Sweden, Finland and the US being among that group behind Russia who were favorites). They got upset. Huge upset. They should have no business being outside the final. It's a failure. It's a failure that counts no matter how much they try saying it doesn't. A bigger failure than losing in 1998 and 2006.

A bigger failure than 1998? How can you logically come to that conclusion?

 

[ViD]

I must say it is going to feel pretty weird when guys like Ovechkin and Malkin will not have an Olympic gold medal achievement and someone like Gavrikov will (barring German miracle).

Truly strange circumstances but it is an Olympic gold nonetheless

 

[thekernel]

I tend to think this Olympic gold doesn't carry the same gravitas as it did previously. I'm pretty sure more people cared about the World Cup result and that tournament was a joke

That being said, the Russians are a prideful people. They take any win they get, no matter how they get it -- disbarred for cheating, lower quality of competition, and they'll still care -- heck, can we even be sure that NHL's lack of participation wasn't Putin's plan from the beginning?

In any case, here's hoping for a German upset.

 

[Canuck21t]

So the Olympics have only been worth winning for the last 20 years? Just because the best players are there doesn't mean the gold has a greater value.

An Olympic gold is always worth winning, but it does not make the tournament the most prestigious to the eyes of all hockey fans if it is not best on best. Is Olympic soccer the ultimate tournament of the sport? No it is not. Why? Because it depends on the caliber of players participating. When all the possible best are present, the tournament should be regarded as a truer test of supremacy. Europeans don't consider the Olympics as the most important soccer/football tournament yet you can't understand the Canadian perspective?

Why as a Canadian, you are replying on behalf of russians?

Huh? What the heck are you talking about? I was explaining the reality of the majority Canadian's relation with the Olympic tournaments and its viewpoint. How is that on behalf of the Russians?

I tend to think this Olympic gold doesn't carry the same gravitas as it did previously. Heck, I'm pretty sure more people cared about the World Cup result and that tournament was a joke

The 2016 World Cup is an insult to all country. No, I care more about these Olympics than that joke of a tournament.