Does this tournament mean anything to Russia?

[ovikovy817]

It’s a very North American thing to say you don’t care about something if you are afraid of losing or if you already have lost. The funny thing is, if Canada or the US would have won it would have been the greatest story ever and they would rub it into everybody’s face for decades. It’s what they do and why they make it so difficult for the rest of the world to root for them. Which is unfortunate, because Canada and the US have many exceptional athletes.
By the way I’m not saying everyone in Canada and the US is that way. Even here some people have been objective and great about this tournament. However, there is this stereotype about North Americans and every major sports event there are many people that are very eager to verify the it.

Every nation participating would have cared about winning the gold medal. Especially Canada.
And it should always be about the sport and the jersey, not the names of individual players.

This.

I can't believe I read something good on HF. God bless you my friend

 

[Juppy61]

Meh, yes I would have loved to see this team canada win. Disappointed? Yeah a little but nowhere near as much as if this had been our best possible team.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It’s a very North American thing to say you don’t care about something if you are afraid of losing or if you already have lost. The funny thing is, if Canada or the US would have won it would have been the greatest story ever and they would rub it into everybody’s face for decades. It’s what they do and why they make it so difficult for the rest of the world to root for them. Which is unfortunate, because Canada and the US have many exceptional athletes.
By the way I’m not saying everyone in Canada and the US is that way. Even here some people have been objective and great about this tournament. However, there is this stereotype about North Americans and every major sports event there are many people that are very eager to verify the it.

Every nation participating would have cared about winning the gold medal. Especially Canada.
And it should always be about the sport and the jersey, not the names of individual players.

Or we just don’t care because its meaningless if our best players don’t play.

There isn’t some huge conspiracy it’s not best on best and therefore doesn’t matter nearly as much. The Canada Cup in the 80’s was more important to us then the Olympics for the same reason.

 

[NyQuil]

It’s a very North American thing to say you don’t care about something if you are afraid of losing or if you already have lost. The funny thing is, if Canada or the US would have won it would have been the greatest story ever and they would rub it into everybody’s face for decades

Yeah, this arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of what we value.

Do you see us crowing about World Championships victories?

We’re happy for the rest of the day and that’s it.

I get how you think it is defensiveness but it isn’t.

I’m someone who grew up in Europe and watched many WCs and other competitions there. Europe has a culture of tournament play with the EHT, WCs, Spengler, etc.

We don’t.

After decades of being unable to send our best to hockey tournaments, we just don’t care as much if they aren’t there.

That’s all. We said it before the tournament, we’re saying it now. We would be saying it if we won. Nothing has changed.

The teams I most admire include the Czechs in 1998 and the Russians in 2006 and the US in 1996 and the Soviets in 1981 because they knocked Canada’s best out when it counted and they deserve all the credit in the world for it.

 

[sandysan]

That’s all. We said it before the tournament, we’re saying it now. We would be saying it if we won. Nothing has changed.

This, the argument that had canada won gold that Canadians would be extolling the virtures of scrivens, klinkhammer and rene bourque is 100% completely misplaced. We KNOW they are poor hockey players, and if they can make a living is lesser leagues good for them, but the fact that they don the team canada jersey is an oddity, not a source of pride. do we wantt them to win ? sure the way I ewant my kids team to win. if they don't, its not the end of the world.

Has we gotten blown out or had we won the whole thing convincingly, it doesnt change the fact that this isnt canada's B,C or D team. we might have to go the exel was and start with AA, AB........ columns.

Congrats to Germany who won fair and square.

 

[BrendanGallagher11]

Lets face it!!!!
If canada, us, sweden, prob czech and slovakia sent there nhl players. Russian wouldnt be playing for gold

 

[Bear12Good]

Lets face it!!!!
If canada, us, sweden, prob czech and slovakia sent there nhl players. Russian wouldnt be playing for gold

Every Russian people it's known about it. Russia can win with lousy coahing.

 

[NyQuil]

Lets face it!!!!
If canada, us, sweden, prob czech and slovakia sent there nhl players. Russian wouldnt be playing for gold

We don’t know because it didn’t happen.

It’s silly to assume.

 

[snipes]

Lets face it!!!!
If canada, us, sweden, prob czech and slovakia sent there nhl players. Russian wouldnt be playing for gold

Russia is better than the Czechs and Slovaks.

 

[Bear12Good]

With good coach Russia can play much better.
Right now Russian PP and PK in all-stars tournaments always pathetic.

 

[Bear12Good]

Russia is better than the Czechs and Slovaks.

And better Finland too.

 

[snipes]

To me the IIHF World Championshop is more meaningful now even if it's not best on best. At least we have NHL players there.

Hopefully we get a good final though, I'm excited to see how Datsyuk plays in the game today.

 

[Bear12Good]

To me the IIHF World Championshop is more meaningful now even if it's not best on best. At least we have NHL players there.

Hopefully we get a good final though, I'm excited to see how Datsyuk plays in the game today.

What do you think about Team Canada in IIHF Worlds 18?
I hope McDavid accept invite.

 

[snipes]

What do you think about Team Canada in IIHF Worlds 18?
I hope McDavid accept invite.

I think we should have a good team.

McDavid loves playing for Canada, I think he will be there which is good for all hockey fans for us to have the best player in the world at the tournament.

 

[JackSlater]

It`s a competition of best available like always. NHL players belongs to NHL, not to their countries. Best players you're referring to, you simply don't have. If it's fun to watch 10-1 games for you, it's not for everyone. Actually, same thing is happening now when Russia is banned in Olympics and Canada is harvesting a lot of medals. Aren't they less valuable then? Why Canadians are watching this then? Isn't double face attitude? Yes there is a reason why best Russian athletes are absent, but there is also reason for NHL players.

Millionaires on the ice show isn't always fun to watch and miracle on the ice is a great example for this. Average athletes can be also pretty exciting to watch when they fight with heart for their countries. Again, can you answer me if salary cap made NHL better?

Again, nonsense. The tournament does not have access to the best, it is just the best who are remaining. Literally hundreds of better players are not available for this tournament. If the tournament was only available to players whose surnames started with M, N, V, T and A, would it still be celebrated because the best players with surnames starting with those letters participated? I certainly don't expect so, because that would be idiotic.

The "miracle on ice" is a good example here. The miracle wasn't that USA won the Olympic gold medal. For instance, no one calls the 1960 USA Olympic gold medal a "miracle". The miracle was beating a Soviet team that was incredibly strong and made up of many of the best players in the world. There can't even be a miracle in this tournament because there is no team that is even close to the Soviets of 1980... because all of the best players aren't there and none of the teams are incredibly strong. It's players ranging from bad to mediocre to good.

As for your last question, I don't even understand why you are asking me about the salary cap. I would prefer if there were no salary cap, but I don't know if it has made a big difference to the NHL.

In Europe as well, at least when it comes to people that know hockey. I am not saying anything different here.

Here I disagree. I believe that olympic medals have an intrinsic value, even though maybe not as high as someone here believes, but high nevertheless.
To me, and again this is just my opinion, the value mostly is what the players put into it.
What is the "value" of a competition for you? I do not think it's a universal definition. What is the purpose of international competition?

And I do not do that either. Except for the fact that I barely know what the superbowl is, but that is another story.

The main difference between my opinion and yours, if I understood properly, is that for you, if it.s not best on best, it has no value.
For me, it may still very well have it, whatever a value is. And this even if we completely forget that the olympics have a tradition and a prestige that for a lot of people has no equal.

In your case it is basically just down to the intrinsic value of Olympic medals. The case of Olympic soccer proves that most here are being disingenuous at best at best, outright lying at worst when it comes to claiming that Olympic gold medals are always important. I also consider it ridiculous to claim that any competition has an intrinsic value. The value of the Olympics is clearly derived from being recognized as a prize for the best of the best. In most of the sports at these Olympics we have either the best, or the vast majority of the best competing for medals. Those medals are thus rightly valued. In hockey, anyone remotely knowledgeable knows that we have essentially none of the best players here. The value goes down.

If all disciples in the Olympics had far from the best players, as hockey does in 2018, would people put value in the Olympics as a whole? I am almost certain that the answer is no, but there is really no way to prove it.

There seems to be a divide between NA and the rest of the world fans. Here in Europe we (and yes sorry for generalizing) in international competitions cheer primarily for the jersey not the person wearing it. Erik Karlsson can't play? Oh too bad, but I'm here to watch Sweden not Erik Karlsson.

That's why Europeans value the Olympic soccer medal so highly, right?

Yeah, this arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of what we value.

Do you see us crowing about World Championships victories?

We’re happy for the rest of the day and that’s it.

I get how you think it is defensiveness but it isn’t.

I’m someone who grew up in Europe and watched many WCs and other competitions there. Europe has a culture of tournament play with the EHT, WCs, Spengler, etc.

We don’t.

After decades of being unable to send our best to hockey tournaments, we just don’t care as much if they aren’t there.

That’s all. We said it before the tournament, we’re saying it now. We would be saying it if we won. Nothing has changed.

The teams I most admire include the Czechs in 1998 and the Russians in 2006 and the US in 1996 and the Soviets in 1981 because they knocked Canada’s best out when it counted and they deserve all the credit in the world for it.

Yes you've pretty accurately described the Canadian position. Of course in this thread it's mostly people outside of Canadian attempting to tell Canadians what they really think and crack the facade we've put up. It's frankly quite bizarre, as if people cannot comprehend the idea of not blindly valuing the Olympics even when the best players aren't there. Anybody who thinks that Canadians would be blindly out celebrating winning this tournament to anywhere near the level of actual best on best Olympics (or that Canadians are remotely as upset as they were in 1998 or 2006) has a fundamental misunderstanding about how sports and particularly hockey are viewed in Canada.

 

[Riddum]

It's the Olympics and despite what many North Americans on here have posted, the rest of the world will treat this with the respect it deserves. An Olympic medal is an Olympic medal, regardless.

Would you still watch the 100m race, if the top 100 racers in the world weren't allowed to race? I certainly wouldn't.

 

[Name Nameless]

Would you still watch the 100m race, if the top 100 racers in the world weren't allowed to race? I certainly wouldn't.

Most people watching the Olympics don't even know how many of the best aren't there. And it is the Olympics. People assume the difference isn't that big, even when they know the NHL ain't there.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

It'll mean much more if they lose. The embarrassment of losing to Germany would be soul-crushing. If they win, it just means they're the best of the gimped teams, although their state media might spin it as a great day.

 

[Riddum]

Most people watching the Olympics don't even know how many of the best aren't there. And it is the Olympics. People assume the difference isn't that big, even when they know the NHL ain't there.

You're wrong. Otherwise, ratings would be similar, however, they have plummeted.

 

[Name Nameless]

You're wrong. Otherwise, ratings would be similar, however, they have plummeted.

Most people don't live in North-America.

 

[JackSlater]

Would you still watch the 100m race, if the top 100 racers in the world weren't allowed to race? I certainly wouldn't.

I posed that example, it was ignored. Take away the six best Jamaicans, the four best Americans, the four best of whatever other country is a contender and so on. No one with any sense would value that gold medal highly. Someone will likely reply to you that Europeans support the country not the athlete and value all Olympic medals highly, although your soccer example proved that to be untrue.

Another example that was ignored: all players from the domestic leagues in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France cannot go to the soccer World Cup. Do people pretend that the accomplishment of winning the World Cup is not diminished? By the logic in this thread it would be just an significant as winning it in 2014, though I honestly cannot imagine that that is true.

 

[Riddum]

Most people don't live in North-America.

North America is the Mecca of hockey

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

If you think Russians were the only ones “cheating” you’re sorely mistaken. A large portion of athletes at this level take ped’s, they just know when and how to do it not to fail a drug test

I think Russia is the only country with a state sponsored doping program though.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I posed that example, it was ignored. Take away the six best Jamaicans, the four best Americans, the four best of whatever other country is a contender and so on. No one with any sense would value that gold medal highly. Someone will likely reply to you that Europeans support the country not the athlete and value all Olympic medals highly, although your soccer example proved that to be untrue.

Another example that was ignored: all players from the domestic leagues in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France cannot go to the soccer World Cup. Do people pretend that the accomplishment of winning the World Cup is not diminished? By the logic in this thread it would be just an significant as winning it in 2014, though I honestly cannot imagine that that is true.

Counter point: Neither the 1980 nor 1984 Olympics featured all the best athletes. From what I recall medals at both Olympics were highly celebrated in the countries of the winners with some medal winners becoming celebrities and household names in their respective countries. Another example, a number of the best European nations chose not to participate at the 1930 FIFA World Cup because it was then a new tournament and travel to Uruguay seemed too arduous for it to be worth it. Uruguay won that tournament and to this day the absence of a significant % of the best players does not seem to be much more than a footnote nor is it seen as negating Uruguay's triumph.

Additionally, I think that while winning the Olympic soccer tournament is not seen as big a deal as the World Cup (or the European Championships or Copa America for that matter), it is worth *something* and people certainly take an interest in it. When Germany played Brazil in the 2016 Olympic soccer final, that game ended after midnight and still over 8 million Germans watched it on TV (with a rating of over 40% for that time of night).

 

[shtorm2005]

Like I said, you don't value internationnal championship when you're not favorite. With all money you invest in hockey, you want to prove you're best among small markets. But when it comes to fair game between every country, you hide and try to depriciate the tournament.

If you love hockey and your country you should watch and value big internationnal competitions, no matter if your hockey idol on the ice or not. Your guys there fought for your country while you ignored them and called them rejects. That's low.