Do you think you would have outperformed Dorion?

[lancepitlick]

I think part of the problem with Dorion is that he has no credibility so other GMs just straight up take advantage of him. I'd have even less than Dorion so that would remain an issue.

I'm fairly confident of the following:
- wouldn't have traded Zbad in a million years (commented directly after that it was absurd)
- would not have sought out a high priced goalie via trade/free agency at that time i.e. Matt Murray
- would have made same Karlsson trade as nothing better on offer most likely
- would not have traded for Duchesne
- would have tried to re-sign Duclair/Demelo
- would not have traded Ceci for a trade involving Zaitsev
- would not have signed Stone to a 1 year deal. Instant trade prior.
- I'd be better at talking to the media than him.
- I would have sat Hoffman than trade him for peanuts. If the deal from Florida is there for me I dont care that he's in the same conference.
- Stepan, Burrows, hard no's for a #2 round pick.
- I can't see picking Boucher based on him being such a project and where the team was at. Jury is still out there though.

Things he would do better 100%:
- Zub/drafting
- I might have signed Pageau to too much $
- I might have signed Stone to big $
- White contract I'd be just as bad probably

In general, as a budget team:
- don't trade picks/prospects for vets
- don't sign aging players to monster deals
- don't spend big on a goalie
- don't take on dead salary unless you are getting picks/young players to compensate (no Zaitsev)

So, in summary, I might have done slightly better than him, but only if I was able to draft decently, which I would have absolutely no clue about. Possible I screw that up and don't take Tkachuck, Stutzle, Batherson, Sanderson, though those were mostly high-end picks. But in my hypothetical dream world Dorion is my Director of Amateur scouting so we make the same picks

 

[Agent Zub]

Dorion getting a lot of credit for what seems to be Mann's work when it comes to drafting.

 

[bicboi64]

I think i'd build a contender out of the Sens, but I also think Melynk would fire me after I cuss him out

 

[GCK]

The thing is, there's a team of people advising Dorion, that would presumably be advising any poster here as well. Some of that advice might have been good, and some of it may have been very bad, hard to say I would have better sifted through what was good advice and what was bad any better than Dorion. There's a slew of information we don't have as well, players health and medical records, budget constraints, influence from ownership ect.

I think on a single trade, or draft pick, I might be tempted to say I'd have made a better decision, but that's cherry picking and even then there are potentially other factors that come into play.

It's not really a fair question to ask because Dorion's performance has to be evaluated with his limitations in mind, and we don't know what limitations were in place.

Thing is, the team of advisor’s is tiny and then the Melnyk factor.

 

[swiftwin]

I think there's an argument that if he'd sat on his hands and made no trades and just drafted/re-signed that the team might be in a better spot. For people that buy into this theory, an inanimate object would have done a better job than Dorion.

I don't think anyone here thinks they're some hockey genius (so far), Dorion has just set that low of a bar.

Soo....

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Tkachuk*-Pageau-Batherson
Paul-White-Formenton
Chlapik-Turris-Ryan

Chabot-Karlsson
Wolanin-Ceci
Borowiecki-Jaros

Anderson
Driedger

Would be better? This lineup is older, is far more expensive (would it even fit under the cap?), and would still likely struggle to make the playoffs. Plus we wouldn't have blue chip prospects like Stutzle, Sanderson. The D depth is absolute garbage, I didn't even know who to put past Chabot, Karlsson and Ceci.

This would be a team that meanders in mediocrity forever.

*I gave the benefit of the doubt for Tkachuk, but I think there's a strong possibility we don't get to draft him.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I would have kept Karlsson which is Dorions biggest win but sort of a fluke considering SJ injuries hit (maybe I'm being unfair)

Not to mention trading Karlsson was all Melnyk, if it was up to Dorion he would have kept EK as well ( 7th day ).


And that also opens up a can of worms about what Melnyk forced Dorion to do or not.

However I sure as shit know I would not have traded Zibanejad and we also have one of Byram or Zegras.

How did we get Zegras again, he went 5 picks later, unless we reached I guess.

Soo....

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Tkachuk*-Pageau-Batherson
Paul-White-Formenton
Chlapik-Turris-Ryan

Chabot-Karlsson
Wolanin-Ceci
Borowiecki-Jaros

Anderson
Driedger

Would be better? This lineup is older, is far more expensive (would it even fit under the cap?), and would still likely struggle to make the playoffs. Plus we wouldn't have blue chip prospects like Stutzle, Sanderson. The D depth is absolute garbage, I didn't even know who to put past Chabot, Karlsson and Ceci.

This would be a team that meanders in mediocrity forever.

*I gave the benefit of the doubt for Tkachuk, but I think there's a strong possibility we don't get to draft him.

That’s a real expensive 4th line.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Soo....

Hoffman-Zibanejad-Stone
Tkachuk*-Pageau-Batherson
Paul-White-Formenton
Chlapik-Turris-Ryan

Chabot-Karlsson
Wolanin-Ceci
Borowiecki-Jaros

Anderson
Driedger

Would be better? This lineup is older, is far more expensive (would it even fit under the cap?), and would still likely struggle to make the playoffs. Plus we wouldn't have blue chip prospects like Stutzle, Sanderson. The D depth is absolute garbage, I didn't even know who to put past Chabot, Karlsson and Ceci.

This would be a team that meanders in mediocrity forever.

*I gave the benefit of the doubt for Tkachuk, but I think there's a strong possibility we don't get to draft him.

Lol no point in even trying to compete if Anderson is still your starter.

 

[Loach]

I would have been fired for arguing with Euge

 

[PlayOn]

Pretty wild that this is a serious question and that people are actually saying yes.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Pretty wild that this is a serious question and that people are actually saying yes.

Is it? Most posters on here are completely disconnected from reality.

"Yeah I totally would have convinced Melnyk to spend and to rebuild!"

 

[Senovision]

I would have thrown more cups against the wall in anger than Dorion! I would not have signed Matt Murray.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Of course nobody here knows how to be a GM of an NHL team, especially one where it's been reported as an undermanned staff in general and Dorion is doing a lot.

I think the only way these questions can be posed is for each decision in a bubble. Even then we often lack the required information, but at least it's not some broad ridiculous question.

We don't know how many decisions were made by Melnyk either directly from his anger/emotion/meddling or from his lack of funding either. I think Dorion already knew when he traded Zibanejad that the budget wasn't going to be there and the house was about to fall apart either way.

 

[Random Comment]

The fact anyone says yes to this question shows how out of touch with reality this board is. There are likely hundreds of hockey people around the NHL and other leagues who could do as well if not better than Dorion, none of them post here.

What are you talking about. Dorion has made one good trade that was luck. You could have gone in and done nothing and be better off.

If anything, people put GMs in pedestals. Are the day to day tasks difficult and stressful - sure. But the important things are the trades. And no offense to the majority of them, but they watch the exact same players a hockey fanatic does. They don’t have special powers.

Join a competitive fantasy dynasty league with prospect pool and all. Your job is to sel high buy low. You find out pretty quick if you would be terrible.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

I would say I would at least do as good as him, but probably not significantly better. We don't know the limitations that were going on behind the scenes, but surely they were there. Money was a factor in having to ship out Zibby as well as in numerous other questionable decisions. It wasn't just a matter of staying under some internal cap, the team was obviously on a mission to acquire contracts whose cap hit was much higher than their actual payout. That severely limits the decisions any GM can make.

Without knowing what exactly those limitations were it's difficult to judge Dorion's job accurately. I mean it's not good, but unless I have a clear idea of what exact hoops Melnyk was having him jump through it's hard to say for sure. For example I would want to keep Zibby, I was always a big fan, but maybe the owner makes it a non-option and there simply aren't any good trades available. Who knows.

Team desperately needs new ownership with a fresh executive team on the hockey ops side.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Probably about the same or maybe worse running the team but almost certainly better at public relations and interactions with sports media. I can't fathom some times how much Dorion loves shoving his foot in his own mouth. "we're a team", "trading mark stone is my proudest moment", etc etc etc... just terrible at public speaking.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Me, you anyone with or without a pulse. I'm pretty sure my Golden Retriever would do a better job, he is a really smart dog however.

 

[Agent Zub]

Of course nobody here knows how to be a GM of an NHL team, especially one where it's been reported as an undermanned staff in general and Dorion is doing a lot.

I think the only way these questions can be posed is for each decision in a bubble. Even then we often lack the required information, but at least it's not some broad ridiculous question.

We don't know how many decisions were made by Melnyk either directly from his anger/emotion/meddling or from his lack of funding either. I think Dorion already knew when he traded Zibanejad that the budget wasn't going to be there and the house was about to fall apart either way.

True. The Ottawa GM spot is all sorts of wtf, let alone for a rookie GM. I do not trust Dorions GM'ing anymore but without Melnyks influence at least there is hope.

Like Dorion wasted millions of Melnyk's dollars there is no way he did that without Eugene's blessing. We all know Melnyk likes to fire people, but not fire the one person who has wasted more of his money than anyone?

+ Melnyk was dying. if im dying and i own a NHL team I would want to play at being GM too.

 

[Knave]

I think someone needs to point out the obvious:

If we're at a point where some are writing "oh yeah? You think you can do a better job?"... the plot has been lost.

There are many qualified people looking for opportunities. It's not Dorion or HFBoards poster despite the desperate attempts of some on here to frame it that way.

Can we get a change to someone else? Why is this so difficult? He has been given 5 years and we are no closer to the playoffs. 5 years and no change in results. It might be time to make a change in the front office. If this was any other franchise it would have already happened.

 

[PlayOn]

I think someone needs to point out the obvious:

If we're at a point where some are writing "oh yeah? You think you can do a better job?"... the plot has been lost.

There are many qualified people looking for opportunities. It's not Dorion or HFBoards poster despite the desperate attempts of some on here to frame it that way.

Can we get a change to someone else? Why is this so difficult? He has been given 5 years and we are no closer to the playoffs. 5 years and no change in results. It might be time to make a change in the front office. If this was any other franchise it would have already happened.

Isn’t that the whole point of the thread? If you made a poll about whether another qualified individual would be a better option to Pierre Dorion I’m sure the votes would change. There are probably like 5 people here that would keep him if given other legitimate options.

It’s pretty easy to state on the internet you wouldn’t do xyz, when you haven’t a clue what factors abcdefg lead to doing that.

 

[Neiler]

I don't think so. Some of you have seen my trade proposals .

Better:
- I wouldn't have signed Murray
- Tierney would have been moved quite a while ago
- MDZ would have never worn this team's jersey
- would never have taken Zaitsev under any circumstances. He was bad before we got him

Same:
- I've been in agreement with most of his picks
- I liked the DJ hire and still do

Worse:
- Karlsson would still be here and therefore many of our awesome young guys wouldn't
- I couldn't find talent in a lower round to save my life
- don't even think a rebuild would have happened
- most of the trade ideas I have are for players who kinda suck but I feel like they'd be better here
- same with signings, I'd probably have signed lots of projects and expected them to be better. Most of the time a year later I look back at those thoughts and shake my head

Debatable:
- I would have shipped out Brannstrom long ago, not sure I would have taken him from Vegas to begin with (too small)
- I did not like the JBD pick and wanted Veleno or Noel
- I wouldn't have taken Sanderson. The pick would have been Quinn

 

[JackieDaytona]

I’m not sure if individually anyone here would do ‘better. ’ collectively, members of Hfsens absolutely would imo.

But that’s not the important question.

If you could swap Dorion’s tenure for literally any other gm in the league for the same time, I believe this team would be at worst similar or slightly further along and likely a lot better. Dorion’s successes are surrounded by poor decisions and unforced errors, wasted assets and missed opportunities. While the team is in decent shape and he gets some credit for that, I’m confident other gms would be able to match the highs while avoiding the lows.

PD needs to go to take the next step.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

True. The Ottawa GM spot is all sorts of wtf, let alone for a rookie GM. I do not trust Dorions GM'ing anymore but without Melnyks influence at least there is hope.

Like Dorion wasted millions of Melnyk's dollars there is no way he did that without Eugene's blessing. We all know Melnyk likes to fire people, but not fire the one person who has wasted more of his money than anyone?

+ Melnyk was dying. if im dying and i own a NHL team I would want to play at being GM too.

It's so hard to know the extent of just how bad it was, but clearly there were meddling and funding issues that were out of Dorion's hands.

He's made his own share of mistakes as well, but I can't imagine what it must have been like dealing with that buffoon.

 

[Knave]

Isn’t that the whole point of the thread? If you made a poll about whether another qualified individual would be a better option to Pierre Dorion I’m sure the votes would change. There are probably like 5 people here that would keep him if given other legitimate options.

It’s pretty easy to state on the internet you wouldn’t do xyz, when you haven’t a clue what factors abcdefg lead to doing that.

It's also easy to point out GMs that created competitive teams with the constraint of a budget. Dorion wouldn't be on that list and he's not the first to face a budget.

 

[Yak]

Of course everyone knows I am the best armchair GM!

All kidding aside, No I am not better. I would be better as the President of hockey Operations and would have never hired Dorion however or would fire him!

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think someone needs to point out the obvious:

If we're at a point where some are writing "oh yeah? You think you can do a better job?"... the plot has been lost.

There are many qualified people looking for opportunities. It's not Dorion or HFBoards poster despite the desperate attempts of some on here to frame it that way.

Can we get a change to someone else? Why is this so difficult? He has been given 5 years and we are no closer to the playoffs. 5 years and no change in results. It might be time to make a change in the front office. If this was any other franchise it would have already happened.

We don’t have an owner. Until we know what’s happening with team, kids keeping/ selling/ selling part, don’t expect a change there.