Do you consider Matthews a 'Generational' player or talent?

[Video Nasty]

Except for the fact that if compare him 6 seasons into his career vs all those guys 6 years into their career he still comes out on top...wanna try again?

Based on what? Complete ignorance and arrogance that you’re witnessing the best something has ever been?

 

[jigglysquishy]

That you like it or not, Matthews is trending in the same direction as Ovie did back then. Ovie will always be the sexy beast but talent and results are talent and results.

Ovechkin lead the league in points per game three years in a row. He won 3 Pearsons and 2 Harts.

Matthews has never lead the league in points per game. He has one Pearson and one Hart.

Ovechkin's peak is a whole tier above Matthews.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

It’s not about hoping lol. Comparing Ovi and AMs first 6 years makes this a laughable comparison. He’s nowhere near as dynamic an overall player as Ovi and he never will be that. He’s an exceptional goal scorer. Ovi turned a pathetic franchise into a regular president trophy team. AM can’t even win a playoff round and his playoff stats are also worse. It’s not close…

A guy famous for 1 timers from the same spot hardly screams dynamic

 

[Xspyrit]

Ovechkin lead the league in points per game three years in a row. He won 3 Pearsons and 2 Harts.

Matthews has never lead the league in points per game. He has one Pearson and one Hart.

Ovechkin's peak is a whole tier above Matthews.

Points? lol

Again, was I not talking purely about goal scoring?

If you're going to quote me, read the whole post at least

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Points? lol

Again, was I not talking purely about goal scoring?

If you're going to quote me, read the whole post at least

If it were any other player, we would hear how c>w and how a strong 2 way game trumps a few extra points

 

[Xspyrit]

If it were any other player, we would hear how c>w and how a strong 2 way game trumps a few extra points

Here I am as a Sens fan having to argue in favor of a Leafs player. The accusation of anti-Leafs bias is pretty real in this thread. It's crazy how hard it has become to just have things called like they are. I feel very very old and I am only 40 lol

This is pretty simple, Matthews is an elite talent that is trending as one of the best goal scorers of all time. If he just scores on average 40 goals per season for the next 10 years, he will be sitting at 659 goals at 35 years old.

Then he might have a few seasons left (if he stays healthy) and 40 is also pretty "conservative" so that's why we can say that if things stay equal, he will most likely score over 700 goals which is Top-10 in history

 

[Connor McConnor]

If it were any other player, we would hear how c>w and how a strong 2 way game trumps a few extra points

"A few extra points" would be disingenuous. Ovie had 4x100 point seasons in his first 5 years, had won 2 harts, 2 rockets and 3 Pearsons. AM hit 80 once in 5 years and has 1 Rocket to his name.

What are we even debating about here lmao? AM has 33 points in 39 playoff games. Ovi had 59 in 51 which also included 3 playoff series wins and 4 game 7 losses.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

"A few extra points" would be disingenuous. Ovie had 4x100 point seasons in his first 5 years, had won 2 harts, 2 rockets and 3 Pearsons. AM hit 80 once in 5 years and has 1 Rocket to his name.

What are we even debating about here lmao? AM has 33 points in 39 playoff games. Ovi had 59 in 51 which also included 3 playoff series wins and 4 game 7 losses.

The bolded has me confused too. I thought the discussion was about whether Matthews is generational and people bring up Ovi to suggest that if Ovi is generational then so is Matthews. But the discussion seems to be branching to, what, focusing on whether they're equal goal scorers? Which is irrelevant to the OP discussion since it's the "other than goal scoring" parts of Ovechkin's career that makes him generational and separates him from other elite goal scorers like Kovalchuk, Stamkos and Matthews.

 

[Panthaz89]

Except for the fact that if compare him 6 seasons into his career vs all those guys 6 years into their career he still comes out on top...wanna try again?

congrats he's played in a league that's been considerably easier to score in and played in two short seasons so it was easy to not get worn down by a long season. Not too mention OV competed for the league lead in overall points basically every year meanwhile AM hasn't once ever threatened to win a Ross.

 

[Panthaz89]

A guy famous for 1 timers from the same spot hardly screams dynamic

Must have missed OV's career then he is way more than that lmao.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Points? lol

Again, was I not talking purely about goal scoring?

If you're going to quote me, read the whole post at least

Your original post makes no sense. You try to separate generational into every single facet of the game. That’s not what a generational player is. They are generational or they aren’t. You aren’t a “generational goal scorer” or “generational passer”.

AM is not massively better than Drai MacK or Kuch. He’s a better goal scorer than all of them but he’s worse in other areas which make those players his comparables. Just because your an Ottawa fan and think he’s generational doesn’t mean anything lol. You’re wrong. Simple as that. I don’t need to repeat the many posts stating the clear factual evidence he’s nowhere close. Please stop using his goals per game average or goal output as your only factor. You can tell a generational player right away. The dude had 1 80 point season in his first 5 years.

You don’t “develop” into a generational player. Generational players are usually ppg players the minute they step onto NHL ice. Every single player we universally consider generational has done this. He’s nowhere even close to that. He’s been outproduced by several players that he’s considered better than.

Just incase any Leaf fans want to say “Drai only outproduced him because of McDavid” should be careful. AM has only been a PPG player since he played with Marner. Before that he was a 40 goal scorer who put up 70-80 points.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

The bolded has me confused too. I thought the discussion was about whether Matthews is generational and people bring up Ovi to suggest that if Ovi is generational then so is Matthews. But the discussion seems to be branching to, what, focusing on whether they're equal goal scorers? Which is irrelevant to the OP discussion since it's the "other than goal scoring" parts of Ovechkin's career that makes him generational and separates him from other elite goal scorers like Kovalchuk, Stamkos and Matthews.

I think it’s as simple as Ovi has a legit claim to being the best goal scorer in history, and by twisting numbers around a little and cherry picking some stuff, not factoring in the return of 1992/1993 outlier-ness…

They won’t be stopped until everyone here co-signs that Auston is the greatest goal scorer in history.

 

[Dust]

He's clearly the best goal scorer in the NHL right now, but he's not generational. The 3 players that people love to label as generational (Ovi, Crosby, McDavid) all came into the NHL and were pretty much the best players immediately. Matthews did not do that.

 

[ottawa]

Sure, but only if I be a generational player too since we're just handing out that status like candy

A guy famous for 1 timers from the same spot hardly screams dynamic

Ovechkin has more hits than Matthews has career shots, but yeah he's not dynamic.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Sure, but only if I be a generational player too since we're just handing out that status like candy



Ovechkin has more hits than Matthews has career shots, but yeah he's not dynamic.

I think I saw him skate backwards too.

 

[McVespa99]

Poor mans Ovy. Still damn good but NO.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Your original post makes no sense. You try to separate generational into every single facet of the game. That’s not what a generational player is. They are generational or they aren’t. You aren’t a “generational goal scorer” or “generational passer”.

AM is not massively better than Drai MacK or Kuch. He’s a better goal scorer than all of them but he’s worse in other areas which make those players his comparables. Just because your an Ottawa fan and think he’s generational doesn’t mean anything lol. You’re wrong. Simple as that. I don’t need to repeat the many posts stating the clear factual evidence he’s nowhere close. Please stop using his goals per game average or goal output as your only factor. You can tell a generational player right away. The dude had 1 80 point season in his first 5 years.

You don’t “develop” into a generational player. Generational players are usually ppg players the minute they step onto NHL ice. Every single player we universally consider generational has done this. He’s nowhere even close to that. He’s been outproduced by several players that he’s considered better than.

Just incase any Leaf fans want to say “Drai only outproduced him because of McDavid” should be careful. AM has only been a PPG player since he played with Marner. Before that he was a 40 goal scorer who put up 70-80 points.

He's been PPG or better since his 2nd season. So this is a lie.

 

[McVespa99]

He's been PPG or better since his 2nd season. So this is a lie.

I think he means over 82 points in a season. Not some Pace thing

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don't think this gets highlighted or recognized enough, how he's improved every year. It's truly remarkable.

Goals per game from years 1 to 6 are:

.49
.548
.544
.67
.79
.82

(years 2 to 3 was stagnant, or even slight decimal decrease, but so close you can almost overlook it).

Points per game from years 1 to 6 are:

.84
1.02
1.07
1.14
1.27
1.45

It's absolutely incredible how in both goals per game and points per game he's gone up each year for 6 straight years. Even going into last year, most people thought he wouldn't because the covid season increased his numbers, but he again did go up in both somehow.

You have to assume this stops at some point. If he plays 82 games this year and increases his goals per game again, the lower number of goals he'd score is 68 and points is 120.

I suspect last year may have been a career year for him, but we'll see.

To remain on topic - no he's not generational, and that's because my bar for generational is extremely high. But - he's obviously great.

His rates increasing depend on the league climate. He's definitely gotten better every year but part of the jump last year was scoring being up across the board.

I think he means over 82 points in a season. Not some Pace thing

Quick question, what does the "PG" in "PPG" stand for? McDavid didn't score 82 points in his rookie year and apparently that's a mandatory criteria for being generational.

 

[Connor McConnor]

He's been PPG or better since his 2nd season. So this is a lie.

Toronto Maple Leaf fans in a nutshell with this response lmao. PER 60. PER 82. All I see is a bunch of 100s beside true generational players and a bunch of 60s and 70s beside Auston Matthews stats.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Toronto Maple Leaf fans in a nutshell with this response lmao. PER 60. PER 82. All I see is a bunch of 100s beside true generational players and a bunch of 60s and 70s beside Auston Matthews stats.

You still said he wasn't ppg until he played with Marner which is a lie. Not really sure what this purposefully obtuse argument that ignores the reality of shortened seasons in a global pandemic has to do with anything.

 

[Divine]

It's debateable.

He's been doing generational things like 51G in 50 games, 60 goals in 73 games (67G pace coming off wrist surgery). He came off wrist surgery, missed training camp and scored 1 goal all of October last year due to his wrist/timing recovering and still finished with 60 goals in 73 games.

If Matthews can score 70 this year, which is (astoundingly) realistic if he stays healthy and plays 82 games like last season then he's undoubtedly generational. It hasn't been done in 30 years and only 8 players in NHL history have done it.

 

[Enga Olly]

I agree with the people that say generational should be reserved for the absolute creme de la creme. He might get there but generational means accomplishments that are in the same category as Gretzky/Orr/Howe.

 

[Buck Naked]

If he's a generational goal scorer then Draisaitl is a generational backhand passer. We can slap that title on a lot of shit by just creating more and more sub-groups.

 

[Divine]

If he's a generational goal scorer then Draisaitl is a generational backhand passer. We can slap that title on a lot of shit by just creating more and more sub-groups.

Goals is a sub-group to you?

There's literally an award dedicated solely to the best goal scorer.

Show me the award for the best backhand passer, I'll wait.