Speculation: Do you believe In Chuck?

[GapToothedWonder]

Dominant.

Why is that weird typo so prevalent on HFB?

Good call I just typed it in again and my phone autocorrecred it to dominate. So maybe its an android autocorrect thing. *shrug*

 

[GKJ]

Another impressive accomplishment for AV to add to his .500 playoff record and two stanely cup finals appearances even though he coached dominate teams with elite goalies for a decade.

Sometimes I think about when the Flyers played the Rangers in 2014 and how thoroughly AV out-coached Craig Berube and yet the latter is the one who won the Cup

 

[dingbathero]

Sometimes I think about when the Flyers played the Rangers in 2014 and how thoroughly AV out-coached Craig Berube and yet the latter is the one who won the Cup

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If this were Fletcher's first rodeo, I'd give him more time.

It isn't. He has a well established record. We know exactly what he is. We know that at this stage we are well out of the phase where he comes in and fixes problems, and into the stage where he creates them and has no answer.

Ah, so people can't learn and improve from prior experiences, or general managers thrive in a different environment with a different owner enforcing different demands. Gotcha. Tell that to Doug Armstrong. Dean Lombardi. Brian Burke. Craig Patrick. Hell, Fletcher's father won the Cup in his 17th season as GM. It's hard to win the Cup. You can be a very good GM and never win one. And just because you didn't win one with your first organization, or in your first 9 seasons as GM, doesn't mean you didn't learn anything, can't improve, are unable to succeed as a GM, and incapable of winning in the future. Hell, Chuck was hired at age 42, and Minnesota had the longest active playoff streak in the NHL under his management, yet you're acting like he's a hopeless incompetent dope.

Plenty of coaches have learned and won after moving on from their first jobs, as well. Your premise that a GM only gets 2 full seasons before it's determined he can't turn things around based on a previous job (which was not unsuccessful, just ran into some killer Western teams in their prime and a maniac owner), is flawed and historically incorrect.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

How often does a GM get canned after one coach (not counting Gordo)? Serious question.

I don't really like Fletcher but he isn't going anywhere in the immediate future.

 

[baudib1]

If this were Fletcher's first rodeo, I'd give him more time.

It isn't. He has a well established record. We know exactly what he is. We know that at this stage we are well out of the phase where he comes in and fixes problems, and into the stage where he creates them and has no answer.

i mean his upside is he can sign the two top free agents and ride that into ...checks notes ... nothing. so um. ya

 

[TCTC]

If this were Fletcher's first rodeo, I'd give him more time.

It isn't. He has a well established record. We know exactly what he is. We know that at this stage we are well out of the phase where he comes in and fixes problems, and into the stage where he creates them and has no answer.

And what is his record? That his team constantly ran into a juggernaut Blackhawks team? From 2012 to 2015 there was only one team in the league that could beat Chicago and that team also was in the Western Conference. It happens. You're not incompetent just because you can't beat a dynasty. Minnesota had a good team under Fletcher. A perennial playoff team. Something we haven't experienced for over a decade.

 

[Vikke]

First person to give him a job in the NHL, in fact. Clarkie met him at a gun range and they bonded over sunflower seeds (I think).

Fun fact: I have no idea if this is true or not and it very well could be.

 

[ajgoal]

How often does a GM get canned after one coach (not counting Gordo)? Serious question.

Hextall?

 

[baudib1]

And what is his record? That his team constantly ran into a juggernaut Blackhawks team? From 2012 to 2015 there was only one team in the league that could beat Chicago and that team also was in the Western Conference. It happens. You're not incompetent just because you can't beat a dynasty. Minnesota had a good team under Fletcher. A perennial playoff team. Something we haven't experienced for over a decade.

they also lost to the/Kari Lehtonen Stars and Jake Allen Blues.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Hextall?

My apologies, I had already blacked it out from my mind

 

[ajgoal]

My apologies, I had already blacked it out from my mind

To be fair, that wasn't really an answer to your question. It's just the obvious, recent one.

EDIT: I did not mean for that to sound snide. I meant it was the one I immediately remembered.

 

[Larry44]

If this were Fletcher's first rodeo, I'd give him more time.

It isn't. He has a well established record. We know exactly what he is. We know that at this stage we are well out of the phase where he comes in and fixes problems, and into the stage where he creates them and has no answer.

Bad hire paying no dividends anytime soon.

 

[deadhead]

Another impressive accomplishment for AV to add to his .500 playoff record and two stanely cup finals appearances even though he coached dominate teams with elite goalies for a decade.

Lundqvist wasn't elite when AV arrived in NY, Torts is the one that got the benefit of his best years. AV got his sunset seasons.
AV did have Luongo's peak years when he started in Vancouver.
But that's silly, I mean Cooper has a great goalie, Q had Crawford's best seasons in Chicago and so on.
How many HCs have won a Cup with a below average goalie performance in the playoffs?

 

[Embiid]

And what is his record? That his team constantly ran into a juggernaut Blackhawks team? From 2012 to 2015 there was only one team in the league that could beat Chicago and that team also was in the Western Conference. It happens. You're not incompetent just because you can't beat a dynasty. Minnesota had a good team under Fletcher. A perennial playoff team. Something we haven't experienced for over a decade.

Aren't we trying to win a cup here and not just be a perennial playoff team? I mean we are approaching half a century since our last cup. I mean your point is well taken but I am hoping Fletcher doesn't come up short against any team..even a dynasty.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And what is his record? That his team constantly ran into a juggernaut Blackhawks team? From 2012 to 2015 there was only one team in the league that could beat Chicago and that team also was in the Western Conference. It happens. You're not incompetent just because you can't beat a dynasty. Minnesota had a good team under Fletcher. A perennial playoff team. Something we haven't experienced for over a decade.

Ah, so they weren't good enough to contend. In no small part because they were stuck under Yeo for way too long. Also because Fletcher could never get the team over the hump, not unlike McPhee in Washington.


Aren't we supposed to be contending now? What has Fletcher done to really make that likely?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lundqvist wasn't elite when AV arrived in NY, Torts is the one that got the benefit of his best years. AV got his sunset seasons.
AV did have Luongo's peak years when he started in Vancouver.
But that's silly, I mean Cooper has a great goalie, Q had Crawford's best seasons in Chicago and so on.
How many HCs have won a Cup with a below average goalie performance in the playoffs?

Your claims that Lundqvist wasn't elite under AV are just total nonsense. He had to haul that team and was given no help from the team's style.

 

[TCTC]

Aren't we trying to win a cup here and not just be a perennial playoff team? I mean we are approaching half a century since our last cup. I mean your point is well taken but I am hoping Fletcher doesn't come up short against any team..even a dynasty.

Of course. I just think it's a little premature to assume he'll fail just because he couldn't win a Cup in Minnesota. At the end of the day you also need a little luck. Look at their draft history. Since 2005 they've never had a pick in the top 5. Minnesota probably also isn't the prime destination for many players in FA, unless they're from the area like Suter and Parise.

 

[TCTC]

Ah, so they weren't good enough to contend. In no small part because they were stuck under Yeo for way too long. Also because Fletcher could never get the team over the hump, not unlike McPhee in Washington.


Aren't we supposed to be contending now? What has Fletcher done to really make that likely?

I would say in his first off-season he did all that was needed. He added a 2C, he added a top pairing RHD. He could've done more last off-season, but the expansion draft didn't make it easier.

This off-season will be his big test.

 

[deadhead]

Ah, so they weren't good enough to contend. In no small part because they were stuck under Yeo for way too long. Also because Fletcher could never get the team over the hump, not unlike McPhee in Washington.


Aren't we supposed to be contending now? What has Fletcher done to really make that likely?

Fortunately very little up to now.
This wasn't a veteran team with a window that was closing.
And while this season is one step back, when you look at the Phantoms, there's a lot more talent on the way.
Waiting for this summer to make the big moves will pay off - because Fletcher will have both cap and asset flexibility.

A top draft pick, a bunch of prospects, and some young player with NHL experience. So it won't be hard putting together attractive packages.
I think Seattle will have to choose between Voracek, Ghost and maybe JVR, as Fletcher protects the young forwards and hopes to have a big contract of an older/less valuable player off the books.
G, Hayes, Couts, TK, Lindblom, Patrick, Laughton if resigned before the ED or NAK.
So Seattle would be left to choose between Voracek, JVR, Ghost, Hagg or Morin.
If Ghost isn't taken, he'll probably be included in a trade taking salary back, to make room for York/Morin as the 3LHD.

Then the trade/signing of a RHD in his prime years and a 1B goalie.
Maybe a third move to change things around.

 

[Embiid]

Of course. I just think it's a little premature to assume he'll fail just because he couldn't win a Cup in Minnesota. At the end of the day you also need a little luck. Look at their draft history. Since 2005 they've never had a pick in the top 5. Minnesota probably also isn't the prime destination for many players in FA, unless they're from the area like Suter and Parise.

It may be but there a lot of things about the FO and not just him that has me doubting future success.

 

[Vikke]

Did I just read that Hank wasn't an elite goalie in 2013? What the f*** are you smoking, buddy?

 

[deadhead]

As long as you draft well, you can survive a multitude of coaching and GM mistakes.

And so far, Fletcher is drafting well, he used two 7th rd picks essentially to trade up for Wisdom in the 4th, Desnoyers in the 5th and snatched McClennon in the 6 (where you take long-shot smurfs like Bratt). Doesn't get much better than that.

Now we'll see if he can use these assets - he doesn't have to win trades, just break even or even get beat by a small margin, because you can't keep all these prospects, at some point you have to make consolidation trades or swap them for future picks (Marody). So the key is to turn late rd 1st and some 2nd tier prospects into solid NHL starters in their peak years. Older patches should only be purchased at a discount (assets and salary).

 

[swami24]

Nope I have zero confidence, but I voted give him time as he will get more time.

AV was a MASSIVE mistake though, and now sticking behind AV is a EPIC mistake,

My neighbor, who is a Rangers fan, said he would last a few years, and then we would hate him. Nothing worse than a Rangers fan being right about our team.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Realistically, Fletch isn't getting fired. At best, AV will be fired this offseason but I don't even think that will happen.

I'm fearful Fletch is going to do some crazy s*** this offseason to radically fix it.

I'm talking talking guys like Jake (I know many would like that - I wouldn't mind necessarily), Sanheim, TK, Coots, etc.

I can't see a world where Coots isn't kept, but I don't trust Fletch so here we are.

I'll just be holding my breath for a bit while we wait to see what unfolds this offseason. Just trade Laughton for a 1st if you can get one and fix the team for next year.

My neighbor, who is a Rangers fan, said he would last a few years, and then we would hate him. Nothing worse than a Rangers fan being right about our team.

We barely even went 1 year before we hated him. Him throwing out the playoff in last year's playoffs is when I started to dislike him.