Do the Leafs overcome their first round demons next year?

[LeafsNation75]

Incorrect. The thread is will the Leafs beat their first round demons. And pointing out that they underperformed this past year is relevant imo. If some posters like yourself aren’t mature enough to handle that then that’s not really my issue.
For the record I think there’s a good chance they do get past the first round this year but their star players are going to have to play much better and can’t be shut out in two out of five games. If that view upsets you and isn’t in the same stratosphere as your view then that’s your issue, not mine.
Anyways my last post here as I seem to have ruffled a few feathers by stating that the Leafs star players under performed in the past play in series against Columbus. But I still stand by my view and don’t see it as simply losing to a hot goalie. To me that’s a lame excuse that ignores the real issue.

I wouldnt say losing to superior teams is underachieving... Especially taking a bad matchup in Boston to back-to-back game 7s.

Do I wish they won? Obviously, but im also not surprised they lost.

As for Columbus, yes they should have one. That was a disappointing loss. But the team as a whole was a mess from the opening faceoff last season. People talk about Columbus like they were some huge underdog, but they had the same record as Toronto.

Overall, underachieving is a bit disingenuous and if it wasnt the Leafs this narrative wouldnt exist.

Prior to the Leafs and Blue Jackets series I remember others on here who said it would be an even series because of the record Columbus had and if they won it wouldn't be considered to be an upset. Plus it was said how Columbus had the coaching advantage with the experience factor with John Tortorella compared to Sheldon Keefe. So it's funny the way some people on here are now trying to move the goal posts and claim Toronto losing to them was so embarrassing.

 

[Prairie Habs]

It’s unlikely the Habs make the playoffs but if the Leafs played the Habs they would be heavy favourites. The Leafs 4th best forward is better than the Habs best forward.

You probably said the exact same thing about CBJ.

 

[Spilot23]

You probably said the exact same thing about CBJ.

I think it would've been harder for Leafs against the Habs. They play a more suffocated hockey and rely on all lines while Leafs rely heavily on their top 6. Habs defense is also thougher. Habs are a more suited playoffs team that relies on hard work rather than skills IMO. I will probably get crucified saying this but this year will probably be even harder with that slower bottom 6 the Leafs have. That's my opinion though I will gladly eat my words if I'm wrong.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

The Leafs avoid Tampa or Boston until the conference final that means they get favourable matchups.

Colombus, Colombus, Colombus...

 

[LeafsNation75]

Colombus, Colombus, Colombus...

I said this before and I will say it again. Prior to their series against Columbus I remember reading comments on here saying it would be an even series because of their records during the 2019-20 season, along with the fact Columbus had the coaching advantage with John Tortorella. So don't go moving the goal posts saying how Toronto should have easily defeated them and they were an easier opponent compared to Washington or Boston who Toronto previously played in the 2017, 2018, and 2019 playoffs.

 

[Syckle78]

Prior to the Leafs and Blue Jackets series I remember others on here who said it would be an even series because of the record Columbus had and if they won it wouldn't be considered to be an upset. Plus it was said how Columbus had the coaching advantage with the experience factor with John Tortorella compared to Sheldon Keefe. So it's funny the way some people on here are now trying to move the goal posts and claim Toronto losing to them was so embarrassing.

And I remember some people saying the jackets had no chance of keeping up with the leafs high powered offense and overall skill level. Funny how some people are now on here moving the goal posts acting like it was an even series and the leafs weren't the favorites.

 

[Syckle78]

I said this before and I will say it again. Prior to their series against Columbus I remember reading comments on here saying it would be an even series because of their records during the 2019-20 season, along with the fact Columbus had the coaching advantage with John Tortorella. So don't go moving the goal posts saying how Toronto should have easily defeated them and they were an easier opponent compared to Washington or Boston who Toronto previously played in the 2017, 2018, and 2019 playoffs.

Here's the thing nobody cares what you remember. Unless you can link us to the same people saying it was even before and now saying otherwise goalposts are not being moved. The polls were quite overwhelming in the leafs favor despite what you remember nameless posters saying.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I said this before and I will say it again. Prior to their series against Columbus I remember reading comments on here saying it would be an even series because of their records during the 2019-20 season, along with the fact Columbus had the coaching advantage with John Tortorella. So don't go moving the goal posts saying how Toronto should have easily defeated them and they were an easier opponent compared to Washington or Boston who Toronto previously played in the 2017, 2018, and 2019 playoffs.

Even when they get easier opponents, they find a way to lose.

There's something wrong about this team.

Maybe Big Joe will be the solution.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I said this before and I will say it again. Prior to their series against Columbus I remember reading comments on here saying it would be an even series because of their records during the 2019-20 season, along with the fact Columbus had the coaching advantage with John Tortorella. So don't go moving the goal posts saying how Toronto should have easily defeated them and they were an easier opponent compared to Washington or Boston who Toronto previously played in the 2017, 2018, and 2019 playoffs.

There was comments like that, I was one of them, that said it was 50/50. I don’t recall what yours was. There were a lot of Leaf fans saying the opposite.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Colombus, Colombus, Colombus...

Who they won't play if the Canadian division happens

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Who they won't play if the Canadian division happens

Swing and a miss...

 

[Weezeric]

No team in the cap era has ever won a playoff series with a 10M dollar player. The Leafs have 3. Of course it will get easier as the cap gets bigger but interesting nonetheless.

 

[McVespa99]

Possibly. The Kadri trade hurts a lot less now that we got Brodie though. The first trade attempt was Kadri for Brodie, which Kadri vetod. Leaving us with Tyson f***ing Barrie. I like the balance and experience the new roster has. Leafs fans are very optimistic on our chances this year with the revamped D and bottom 6. A lot to be excited about this upcoming season. Looks good on paper so far, let's see if it translates to on-ice success, I'm betting it does. Anything short of the 2nd round is unacceptable.

I just think Kadri brought an element the Leafs dont have and sorely need. He is gritty and is great when given the challenge of covering another teams star player. He was great against McD. Yah he blew up in the playoffs but I would rather have to reign in that kind of passion than try to motivate guys to ne more aggressive,

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Here's the link to the CBJ-TOR thread but wish it had a poll. Not sure if there's another thread?
Not gonna go through it and count votes though.

Qualifier Game 1: Columbus @ Toronto - 8pm | SN, NHLN

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Overall, underachieving is a bit disingenuous and if it wasnt the Leafs this narrative wouldnt exist.

Not really. If Leaf fans are going to hype how awesome their forwards are, and hype them up as a contender each off-season, then when they fail to get out of the first round yet again that is the definition of underachieving.

And it has nothing to do with the Leafs. Other teams with "on paper talent" who also struggle when it matters most get slammed for underachieving. Hell, Tampa was referred to as chokers until they finally won it. Washington was considered to be underachieving and playoff chokers until 2018. Edmonton is called underachieving because they have two 100+ point superstars and no playoff success to show for it. Etc.

So it's not a "Leaf thing". It's just Leaf fans who seem to think everyone is always out to get them.

 

[The Podium]

Not really. If Leaf fans are going to hype how awesome their forwards are, and hype them up as a contender each off-season, then when they fail to get out of the first round yet again that is the definition of underachieving.

And it has nothing to do with the Leafs. Other teams with "on paper talent" who also struggle when it matters most get slammed for underachieving. Hell, Tampa was referred to as chokers until they finally won it. Washington was considered to be underachieving and playoff chokers until 2018. Edmonton is called underachieving because they have two 100+ point superstars and no playoff success to show for it. Etc.

So it's not a "Leaf thing". It's just Leaf fans who seem to think everyone is always out to get them.

Its a Leaf thing considering the Leafs are not, and have not, been at the same level as Tampa or Washington. They are closer to a playoff lock with a chance to win status than a contender status. Just because some overzealous fans tend to overrate them in the offseason does not mean they have underachieved. They have been the underdog in 3/4 of their playoff series and even in their most recent.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Its a Leaf thing considering the Leafs are not, and have not, been at the same level as Tampa or Washington. They are closer to a playoff lock with a chance to win status than a contender status. Just because some overzealous fans tend to overrate them in the offseason does not mean they have underachieved. They have been the underdog in 3/4 of their playoff series and even in their most recent.

They might not quite be on Tampa or Washington's level, but at the same time you don't think a team with the offensive depth Toronto has (essentially two first lines), plus a top 10 goalie and good offense from the blueline, shouldn't be expected to get out of the first round at least one time in the past couple of seasons?

Toronto's consistently been referred to as a Top 10 team the past couple of seasons, and not just by overzealous Leaf fans. And I'd say, based on *talent alone*, that's accurate. You don't think that a Top 10 team is underachieving if it can't get out of the 1st round?

At what point would you consider them to have underachieved? Losing in the first round this coming season? Two seasons more? Five?

 

[Syckle78]

I was called a hater by multiple leaf fans for not calling the leafs a contender two years into Babcocks tenure but they haven't underachieved by not getting out of the 1st round after 4 tries.... ok,then.

 

[The Podium]

They might not quite be on Tampa or Washington's level, but at the same time you don't think a team with the offensive depth Toronto has (essentially two first lines), plus a top 10 goalie and good offense from the blueline, shouldn't be expected to get out of the first round at least one time in the past couple of seasons?

Toronto's consistently been referred to as a Top 10 team the past couple of seasons, and not just by overzealous Leaf fans. And I'd say, based on *talent alone*, that's accurate. You don't think that a Top 10 team is underachieving if it can't get out of the 1st round?

At what point would you consider them to have underachieved? Losing in the first round this coming season? Two seasons more? Five?

Yes a top 10 team in the league SHOULD win a first round, but a top 10 team in the league should also not be playing a top 4 team in the league.

Look at the Leafs opponents

2016-17
Toronto 8th East 14th league
Washington 1st East 1st league

2017-2018
Toronto 4th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 4th League

2018-2019
Toronto 5th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 3rd League

2019-2020
Toronto 8th East 13th League
Columbus 9th East 14th League

So its not underachieving if they are forced to match up against true contenders due to the divisional playoff seeding. In the conference format theyd be playing much weaker opponents in the 1st round and your argument would hold some merit.

This season they underachieved as a whole, but in the playoffs they lost to a team with almost an identical record. Disappointing? Yes, but it wasnt some great unexpected tragedy.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I think it would've been harder for Leafs against the Habs. They play a more suffocated hockey and rely on all lines while Leafs rely heavily on their top 6. Habs defense is also thougher. Habs are a more suited playoffs team that relies on hard work rather than skills IMO. I will probably get crucified saying this but this year will probably be even harder with that slower bottom 6 the Leafs have. That's my opinion though I will gladly eat my words if I'm wrong.

1. You weren't #1 or #2 in GA, so you're not better than Columbus at defence.
2. The Leafs weren't stopped defensively, they pounded many SOG, only to be stopped.
I don't think your 33yr old can do that-because he hasn't against us in the past.

 

[Spilot23]

1. You weren't #1 or #2 in GA, so you're not better than Columbus at defence.
2. The Leafs weren't stopped defensively, they pounded many SOG, only to be stopped.
I don't think your 33yr old can do that-because he hasn't against us in the past.

Just for your info I'm not a Habs or Jackets fan. This is purely neutral of what I think. I agree though that Columbus defense is better than the Habs but I think they play a much better defense collectively hence why I think they would've trouble against the Habs. They play a more suffocating game which would limit shots. And you never know which Price you're getting when you play against him but safe to say he was pretty good these playoffs.

 

[sansabri]

Its a Leaf thing considering the Leafs are not, and have not, been at the same level as Tampa or Washington. They are closer to a playoff lock with a chance to win status than a contender status. Just because some overzealous fans tend to overrate them in the offseason does not mean they have underachieved. They have been the underdog in 3/4 of their playoff series and even in their most recent.

actually the Leafs did underachieve as they have been declared a contender for 2 seasons now only to have marginal records

 

[Syckle78]

Yes a top 10 team in the league SHOULD win a first round, but a top 10 team in the league should also not be playing a top 4 team in the league.

Look at the Leafs opponents

2016-17
Toronto 8th East 14th league
Washington 1st East 1st league

2017-2018
Toronto 4th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 4th League

2018-2019
Toronto 5th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 3rd League

2019-2020
Toronto 8th East 13th League
Columbus 9th East 14th League

So its not underachieving if they are forced to match up against true contenders due to the divisional playoff seeding. In the conference format theyd be playing much weaker opponents in the 1st round and your argument would hold some merit.

This season they underachieved as a whole, but in the playoffs they lost to a team with almost an identical record. Disappointing? Yes, but it wasnt some great unexpected tragedy.

So then the Leafs just aren't that good? Can't be contenders if you're not good enough to line up in a series 4 years in a row and not expect to win.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yes a top 10 team in the league SHOULD win a first round, but a top 10 team in the league should also not be playing a top 4 team in the league.

Look at the Leafs opponents

2016-17
Toronto 8th East 14th league
Washington 1st East 1st league

2017-2018
Toronto 4th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 4th League

2018-2019
Toronto 5th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 3rd League

2019-2020
Toronto 8th East 13th League
Columbus 9th East 14th League

So its not underachieving if they are forced to match up against true contenders due to the divisional playoff seeding. In the conference format theyd be playing much weaker opponents in the 1st round and your argument would hold some merit.

This season they underachieved as a whole, but in the playoffs they lost to a team with almost an identical record. Disappointing? Yes, but it wasnt some great unexpected tragedy.

Well, you're not going to ever get a much easier match up than the 9th team in the East. In most years Columbus would not even have made the playoffs.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes a top 10 team in the league SHOULD win a first round, but a top 10 team in the league should also not be playing a top 4 team in the league.

Look at the Leafs opponents

2016-17
Toronto 8th East 14th league
Washington 1st East 1st league

2017-2018
Toronto 4th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 4th League

2018-2019
Toronto 5th East 7th League
Boston 2nd East 3rd League

2019-2020
Toronto 8th East 13th League
Columbus 9th East 14th League

So its not underachieving if they are forced to match up against true contenders due to the divisional playoff seeding. In the conference format theyd be playing much weaker opponents in the 1st round and your argument would hold some merit.

So they're not a contender, then. Because contenders can beat other contenders. If it's pretty much a guaranteed loss if the Leafs aren't playing someone well below them in the standings, then that speaks volumes about that team's status as a true contender.

This season they underachieved as a whole, but in the playoffs they lost to a team with almost an identical record. Disappointing? Yes, but it wasnt some great unexpected tragedy.

The only reason the Leafs and Columbus had almost identical records is BECAUSE the Leafs underachieved. You can't honestly tell me that going into last season that ANYONE would have predicted the Leafs and Blue Jackets would have the same point total. Leaf fans would have been screaming "LEAF HATER" if anyone dared predict that result.

It also sounds like you want it both ways. Your first 90% of your post was defending them for losing because they had to play a good team, but this last paragraph has you defending them losing to a (no offense to Columbus) an average team.

So if it's not underachieving to lose 3 years in a row to Washington/Boston, and it's not underachieving to lose to a mid tier team like Columbus, what is underachieving? They can't play Detroit or Ottawa in the playoffs, so it's not like there's a scenario where they'd play a bottom 5 team and lose.