Dirtiest players post 2005 lockout

[Primary Assist]

I can't believe I'm saying this but don't forget Patrick Kaleta.

Dustin Brown had some very questionable moments. Rempe is on his way there too.

 

[Hobnobs]

Make a counter point of why he shouldn't be included or get over it.

Its pretty bold to demand a counter point when you haven't even made a point on why he's on your list at all. Except for the vague "frequent slew foots". I agree he was dirty but top-6 in a league where guys like Kaleta, Torres, Hollweg, Cooke, Marchand, Lapierre, Jarkko Ruuttu, Downie, Pronger, Ott, Tootoo, Carcillo, Rinaldo, Craig Adams and Shaw played in?

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot James Neal.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Craig Adams? That's even more questionable than the Crosby ax-grind mention...

Neal is a good one to add, not high event dirty but like catastrophic injury attempt stuff. Kaleta is a really good one, I forgot about him almost.

I'm not sure that Subban is quite to the level that the thread intends...he was reckless because he's an inefficient dope, but elite level "dirty"...I'm not sure. I could be convinced, I'm open minded.

 

[MadLuke]

Subban was more to me, reckless during action to gain an edge in the hockey game (make the other guy relevant in the play fall down, try to slash his stick but hit the arm), James Neal felt more action made to hurt the opponent in a way he could not control himself over doing it that did not help getting the puck or avoiding a goal at all.

Malkin can get like that, but it will be more clear vengeance/retaliation

 

[The Macho King]

Its pretty bold to demand a counter point when you haven't even made a point on why he's on your list at all. Except for the vague "frequent slew foots". I agree he was dirty but top-6 in a league where guys like Kaleta, Torres, Hollweg, Cooke, Marchand, Lapierre, Jarkko Ruuttu, Downie, Pronger, Ott, Tootoo, Carcillo, Rinaldo, Craig Adams and Shaw played in?

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot James Neal.

I think James Neal had an AMA on either r/hockey or Twitter and it got shut down about three questions in because all the questions were about kneeing.

Neal was certainly dirty, but I do think he's a class below the Torres/Cooke/Marchand/Kaleta class.

 

[Hobnobs]

I think James Neal had an AMA on either r/hockey or Twitter and it got shut down about three questions in because all the questions were about kneeing.

Neal was certainly dirty, but I do think he's a class below the Torres/Cooke/Marchand/Kaleta class.

Nah, he's right up there. He was definitely as dirty as Marchand. I mean he injured Giroux and Couture with dirty hits to the head within two plays...

 

[weaponomega]

Its pretty bold to demand a counter point when you haven't even made a point on why he's on your list at all. Except for the vague "frequent slew foots". I agree he was dirty but top-6 in a league where guys like Kaleta, Torres, Hollweg, Cooke, Marchand, Lapierre, Jarkko Ruuttu, Downie, Pronger, Ott, Tootoo, Carcillo, Rinaldo, Craig Adams and Shaw played in?

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot James Neal.

I never made a claim he was top 6. I just listed players off the top of my head to spur discussion.

I can't believe I'm saying this but don't forget Patrick Kaleta.

Dustin Brown had some very questionable moments. Rempe is on his way there too.

Posposil as well if he remains in the league.

 

[Hobnobs]

I never made a claim he was top 6. I just listed players off the top of my head to spur discussion.


Posposil as well if he remains in the league.

You're moving the goal posts. You made a thread called the dirtiest and listed Subban. You claim he is among the dirtiest but won't provide proof of it and no, three slew foots in a 800+ game career is not even remotely close to being amongst the dirtiest.

So again. How is he amongst the dirtiest compared to the names I listed and the other names listed in this thread?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I saw kovalev play quite often and I never really remember him getting clocked much.

But I do remember kovalev stationed around the boards, and hollweg just makes the decision to smoke him from behind. This wasn't one of those reactionary decisions either.

Another player that needs mention is Patrick Kaleta.

The dangerous ones are the guys who are emotionally unstable and will seek any avenue to release their anger.

Ah Kaleta, the hero of my youth who I now judge most differently.

I don’t think he was emotionally unstable at all, he was just there to do one thing only right as the game transitioned away from that thing. Hometown kid, fun story, but in hindsight- nearly all his big hits were questionable or dirty, and he just got more desperate as time went along and it became clear he didn’t really belong. Still, Buffalo was bad and he was a fan favorite, so it wasn’t until he ended Kariya’a career, embarrassed himself with an attempted headbutt, then tore his ACL, that his menace was halted.

Idk on him. Definitely belongs on this list, but I view Gilles and Cooke as dudes who might be borderline sociopaths, honestly. I just think Kaleta really wanted to be in the NHL, and the team/league culture unfortunately allowed it for a bit.

 

[weaponomega]

You're moving the goal posts. You made a thread called the dirtiest and listed Subban. You claim he is among the dirtiest but won't provide proof of it and no, three slew foots in a 800+ game career is not even remotely close to being amongst the dirtiest.

So again. How is he amongst the dirtiest compared to the names I listed and the other names listed in this thread?

Thats not moving the goal posts. But you are correct. I'll will provide evidence of dirty play

 

[MXD]

Make a counter point of why he shouldn't be included or get over it.

Your post has been duly noted and was acted upon in a appropriate manner.

 

[weaponomega]

 

[MXD]

I'm not sure that Subban is quite to the level that the thread intends...he was reckless because he's an inefficient dope, but elite level "dirty"...I'm not sure. I could be convinced, I'm open minded.

Nahh... I mean, if there had been a 50 player list, then maybe I could see a case for his inclusion. If PK Subban is amongst the first six players you're thinking of when thinking about dirty players between 2005 and 2024, while you didn't even think of Patrick Mothereffing Kaleta, Steve Giant Meatball Downie and Ryan Hollweg, it just means that PK has hurt you, somewhere, but in a way that's generally taken care of by mental health specialists as opposed to physicians or surgeons. Or you don't really know about hockey from the last 20 years, at least nowhere near as much as you pretend to. I'll be expecting shortly a post on a few selects video highlights as absolute solid evidence... Of said issues, of course.

And even then, his most (and, frankly, only) problematic stage was with the Devils (maybe late, late Preds), when he started slewfooting left and right because he had lost one or two or 21 steps. That's not dirtyness, that's just father time catching up very quickly, along with injuries, weird training strategies and a good side of brain-dead-ism.

 

[MXD]

So in other words, you're more interested into making PK Subban than to have an actual discussion. This was obvious from the start, but, hey, thanks for being a little more transparent about that.

 

[MadLuke]

If PK Subban is amongst the first six players you're thinking of when thinking about dirty players between 2005 and 2024, while you didn't even think of Patrick Mothereffing Kaleta, Steve Giant Meatball Downie and Ryan Hollweg, it just means that PK has hurt you, somewhere, but in a way that's generally taken care of by mental health specialists as opposed to physicians or surgeons

Or because he was a big star player, it is so much easier to have him pop up to mind, like a Messier in all time conversation, you need to think that that right Steve Downie, etc...

Marchand-Subban-Neal-Perry-Pronger, etc... they pop-up much more easily. Cooke because of how famous the injured player were.

 

[MXD]

Marchand-Subban-Neal-Perry-Pronger, etc... they pop-up much more easily. Cooke because of how famous the injured player were.

But still even amongst that group, Subban sticks out like the least offender (especially if you disregard everything post-Nashville, when he wasn't a star player anymore).

I guess it's mostly a knowledge thing. If you're to ask me who's the dirtyest player between 1980 and 2005, there's exactly zero chance I'm answering Mark Messier before Bryan Marchment, despite Messier being obviously a bigger name. I may not think about the useless plug winger playing 41 games of 4th line minutes for the Islanders between 1995 and 1998, but with all due respect, Hollweg played significantly more than that (and he's the least-known player mentionned so far).

 

[sr edler]

Jamie Benn should probably be up there just on account of two pretty egregious cross-checks to other players' (Dylan Larkin and Mark Stone) necks. As soon as you start targeting players necks or heads with your stick or hands/arms, that's pretty bad. He also seems like kind of an overall buffoon.

As for Subban, he had some slew-footing stuff, et cetera, going on towards the tail end of his career when he had lost his speed/explosive step, but on an overall career note he wasn't that dirty.

Matt Cooke was dirty towards the end of his career with Pittsburgh, though he wasn't that bad during his 9 years in Vancouver (I think one 2-game suspension, which is less than Chara should have had just with Boston), and the Lecavalier hit (when with Washington) wasn't that egregious as well, greasy hit, yeah perhaps, but in an earlier era that would have been considered very milquetoast.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Please, Subban was a walking slew foot.

Add Crosby to the list. He had a multi year stretch where he was really greasy and got away with it. Lots of slashes and slew foots

Be serious.

Too much unfair mentions of Tom Wilson

Be serious.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Any mention of Steve Avery yet?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Be serious.



Be serious.

Truth hurts...

 

[Golden_Jet]

Truth hurts...

That one on Methot, was crazy.

 

[JianYang]

I think the Crosby play on methot literally changed the game.

The crackdown on the hacking and whacking at the hands happened to occur after that gruesome incident.

You give these star players that extra freedom to have their hands free, combined with modern stick technology and smaller goalie equipment? Yeah, it's no wonder scoring is up.

 

[JianYang]

That one on Methot, was crazy.

Not that I would put Crosby on the all time dirty list, but I also remember an incident where he decided to smash his stick over the crossbar in frustration while the play was still on. The blade went flying off his stick and became a trajectory.

He could be dirty, but he usually wasn't. He was more whiny than dirty particularly early on.

 

[Henry Miller]

I guess it depends how you define dirtiest player: the player who was suspended 5 times in 10 seasons for headshots, or the player who was never suspended but every game was a little dirty whether crosschecks to the back when clearing the crease or getting out of pocket in scrums. This is kinda a simplified and all or nothing view of things and obviously there is some overlap

 

[Golden_Jet]

Cooke