Different EDM-NYI Trade Scenarios

[Felix Unger]

I don't know why this thread is still going... The only Oiler we'd want is Hall, and everyone in the league would also want Hall. He's fabulous.

 

[BillD]

Of course any team would love to get Hall. If he isn't elite he is as close to it as he can get. MacT would be insane to let him go for anything except a ridiculous return.
Think what we would want for Tavares, it is a similar situation from a transaction standpoint.


but MacT is not the sharpest knife in the draw, so..........................

 

[blinkman360]

Wtf? Why is everyone trying to trade Reinhart all of a sudden?

 

[PWJunior]

Wtf? Why is everyone trying to trade Reinhart all of a sudden?

I know blink, I don't get it either. For a freaking draft pick too.

BTW, maybe this thread should be merged with the other EDM trade thread.

 

[hunter7isles]

Wtf? Why is everyone trying to trade Reinhart all of a sudden?

Same reason they were all trying to trade Strome this offseason - without seeing them dominate for their first brief stint in the NHL, they must be a bust and overrated. After all, players don't take time to develop, right?

 

[redbull]

All three terrible and unrealistic trades for the Oilers.

 

[seafoam]

Reinhart? Really??! This kid is 20 years old.

de Haan didn't break out with the Isles until 22 I believe. Give him time, he's going to be a good one.

 

[Bexlyspeed]

is Mike Milbury posting these proposals?

 

[Macch]

OP bored of winning already???

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Yes. There is no straw man. Do you know what a straw man is? This is just a case of someone presenting opinion as fact.

I do know what a straw man is, thanks. You didn't like his opinion on Yakupov, so you decided to attack his integrity instead. My point is that you were complaining about people using sketchy argument techniques and now you're engaging in one.

We're talking about the value of a hockey player. I, and I assume many others, read his post as nothing more than an opinion based on drawn conclusion, and not an unreasonable one at that.

Maybe we need colored "fact" and "opinion" tags to more easily recognize what people are saying. I dunno. That probably wouldn't work. Message boards are an informal medium. Most posts fall into a grey area. I tend to think most people understand that.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I do know what a straw man is, thanks. You didn't like his opinion on Yakupov, so you decided to attack his integrity instead.

INCORRECT. I don't like his PRESENTATION OF THAT OPINION AS THOUGH IT WERE FACT.

My point is that you were complaining about people using sketchy argument techniques and now you're engaging in one.

No I'm not. He should talk about what he knows, not pretend that his speculation is fact.

We're talking about the value of a hockey player. I, and I assume many others, read his post as nothing more than an opinion based on drawn conclusion, and not an unreasonable one at that.

I speak plainly and I presume others are doing the same. The words that people use are the ones I work from, I do not like to add my own spin to it. If he says "you do realize x, y, and z" that is him saying that I should already know this fact, that is actually not a fact at all. THAT is precisely what I am arguing against. His opinion is his opinion and that's fine, he just shouldn't pretend that it is a fact.

Maybe we need colored "fact" and "opinion" tags to more easily recognize what people are saying. I dunno. That probably wouldn't work. Message boards are an informal medium. Most posts fall into a grey area. I tend to think most people understand that.

I know it is an opinion. You know it is an opinion. He seems to think his opinion is a fact. It isn't. I'm trying to clarify it for him so he stops doing it.

 

[gadiamon72]

is Mike Milbury posting these proposals?

My thoughts exactly. But in all fairness to the thread, I too am not comfortable with the idea that we are missing out on top picks in what looks to be one of the best draft classes in decades. So I understand the mentality, but still would not give up Reinhart or Bailey for players who have not proven themselves at this level. We have taken that turn towards being a "win now" team and you don't take those kinds of risks when you are in that mode. This team is also young enough to be in this mode for several years.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I do know what a straw man is, thanks. You didn't like his opinion on Yakupov, so you decided to attack his integrity instead.

I just want to quickly isolate this.

(1) What's you've described above is not a straw man, even if it were what is happening (which it isn't). Instead, you're describing an ad hominem attack; which is a different type of poor argument tool. That is a tool I have never, and would never use.

(2) I have no problems with his opinion whatsoever. Only his presentation of it as fact.

(3) I have NEVER attacked his integrity in any way. I only attacked his presentation of imaginations as facts. Some people misinterpret that as some kind of personal attack. It isn't in any way.

 

[islesfan3913]

I would do all of these in a second, which is why Edmonton wouldn't even think about them.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

OP bored of winning already???

 

[duster19]

I don't get the need to make a move now at all. Garth made his moves, now it is time to let them play out. Unless someone comes to garth with a mind blowing trade, he shouldn't make any moves other then dumping conacher. Things are going to well to force a move.

 

[MatthewBarnabysTears]

Couple different trades:
Edm-NYI
1. Josh Bailey for David Perron
2. Griffin Reinhart and Matt Donovan for 2015 1st
3. Bailey Reinhart and 2016 1st for Hall


Thoughts?

1. edmonton rejects easily.

2. edmonton rejects easily.

3. edmonton rejects easily.

i find the belief by some that throwing josh bailey, matt donovan, and maybe some other recent mid-round picks into deals transforms a trade offer into something irresistable to be pretty funny.

 

[Symon Asher]

Reinhart for Nurse

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Reinhart for Nurse

Makes no sense for NYI.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I know it is an opinion. You know it is an opinion.

I'm guessing that aside from the extraordinarily daft or soul-crushingly pedant, pretty much everyone understood that it's an opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think so, though. It's a hockey fan message board. If you have to frame everything with "in my opinion", even when it's painfully obvious, we're gonna have a lot of posts to edit.

I just want to quickly isolate this.

I know what a straw man argument is. You clipped the part where I explained:

My point is that you were complaining about people using sketchy argument techniques and now you're engaging in one.

Think of it like this. It's like if a 5 year old gets punched by another 5 year old, then cries, whines and complains about it.... then turns around and pinches the other one. I'm pretty sure I can understand the difference between a punch and a pinch, but the acts kinda fall under the same umbrella.

I have NEVER attacked his integrity in any way.

Well, you immediately brought the snark with:

Are you Kreskin the Magnificent?

Seems to me you were attacking his integrity. Just a little. Unless you think people think of Kreskin the Magnificent as being flush with integrity?

I think you're a little wounded because he quoted (challenged) you, so you reply with this "FACTS" nonsense while ignoring his larger point.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I'm guessing that aside from the extraordinarily daft or soul-crushingly pedant, pretty much everyone understood that it's an opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think so, though. It's a hockey fan message board. If you have to frame everything with "in my opinion", even when it's painfully obvious, we're gonna have a lot of posts to edit.

If you're going to offer an opinion, don't claim it to be a fact. This is not complicated.

I know what a straw man argument is. You clipped the part where I explained: Think of it like this. It's like if a 5 year old gets punched by another 5 year old, then cries, whines and complains about it.... then turns around and pinches the other one. I'm pretty sure I can understand the difference between a punch and a pinch, but the acts kinda fall under the same umbrella.

Also not a straw man.

Well, you immediately brought the snark with:

Seems to me you were attacking his integrity. Just a little. Unless you think people think of Kreskin the Magnificent as being flush with integrity?

Kreskin the Magnificent is supposed to read minds. That's the reference. As in "can you read his mind?" The answer, of course, being no. I'm sorry this makes you sad.

I think you're a little wounded because he quoted (challenged) you, so you reply with this "FACTS" nonsense while ignoring his larger point.

Yeah, THIS is actually an ad hominem. I'm not wounded by any of this. He isn't making a larger point at all. He is PRETENDING that it is a fact that Edmonton regrets drafting Yakupov. We don't know that. So don't pretend that is the case.

I don't care at all about Nail Yakupov or the Edmonton Oilers. It means nothing to me. I'm just not emotionally connected to any of this. I don't know why you so often claim that I am. You shouldn't do that. It isn't true. I'm telling you it isn't true. I've told you it isn't true on every other occasion that you've accused me of having my feelings hurt. Believe me, when someone disagrees about my viewpoints on anything it doesn't phase me at all.

Maybe that is something that happens to you in your life and you're now projecting it onto me? I can't pretend to know what's happening in your mind so I won't try and speculate further. I'd ask you offer me the same courtesy. I'll believe you on facts that only you can know.

Frankly, what you call "facts nonsense" is diminishing the real point: DON'T CALL YOUR OPINION A FACT.

He specifically said "you realize ..." as if I should know this fact, which is really just his opinion.

 

[danteipp]

It does not make any sense for the Islanders, to trade Reinhart, or for the Oilers to deal their 2015 first-round pick, before the Isles determine if they can sign Boychuk to a contract extension and the NHL draft lottery is completed.

From the Isles end, they need to determine if Boychuk will be here long term before they start moving any almost-ready NHL prospects. And Snow would probably want to evaluate his defensive prospect core at year end as well, before determining if he wanted to move any prospects for picks.

As for the Oilers, they cannot (or at least should not) move that 2015 first-round selection until they know where they will be picking. If they have a chance to land a "generational" talent, they stand pat and make the selection. If the pick is outside the top level of talent, then maybe there is a deal to be made.

I would be very surprised if Snow dealt any more premium prospects until the off season - if even then. I assume that if a deal is to be made, it will be to clear up a logjam at the NHL level among the forwards and (perhaps) a B-prospect, if a sweetener is required to get a trade done.

 

[Sorge Georos]

Yeah, don't get this boards obsession with EDM. Let them mire in their own crap. Maybe, just maybe the Isles have finally moved on into a higher tier than being in the laughingstock as edm.

Yeah, if EDM offered us Taylor Hall for Eric Boulton we should reject them because we're in a different tier.

 

[Yashin for President]

No, you really don't. Especially not in November. The Kings were able to hang on to Toffoli and pick up Gaborik last year for Matt Frattin, a second-round pick and a conditional third-round pick to Columbus...why would we be eager to trade Reinhart right now for a marginal upgrade?

Never said to make this trade in November. Comparing Gaborik and Eberle/Hall is a joke. Gaborik is injured and much older than those two players. Hall and Eberle are also signed long term. Gaborik wasn't signed long term at the time of the trade thats why his value wasn't that high. FYI Eberle/Hall on this team is definitely not a marginal upgrade lol. I love Reinhert don't get me wrong but Pulocks play this season has made me more open to trading one of the two for immediate help. Although Kulemen is playing well on the first line I still think he's not the answer for that line.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Yeah, if EDM offered us Taylor Hall for Eric Boulton we should reject them because we're in a different tier.

Because the probably the of that happening is .00000001%.