Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[Guttersniped]

Good points, thanks. Your thinking is correct. I dislike Blackwood, so I get conflicted.

Well at least you acknowledge goalies have a workload limit. Sometimes other posters’ suggested solution to the not seeing Blackwood (basically ever) was pretending Vanecek was workhorse #1 and riding him into the ground.

I don’t actively dislike the guy, but I’m very done with him. Coming in we got this:



And then this happened after the season started 10/13:

He said this Mid-December

He also took a puck off the hand in early Jan, Schmid got an emergency call-up for the Jan 5th game. It was the 2nd game of a B2B so Schmid played, he lost 5-3 to the Blues at home.

This is how Blackwood’s season played out:

Begins:

First injury: out 20 games

1st Return up to hand injury:

Hand injury: out 1 game

2nd return to “tweak something in practice”

3rd injury: out 16 games

3rd return to now:

The hope that we could see what he could do if he stayed very much did not come true.

 

[My3Sons]

@My3Sons has the cleanest playoff avatar

Some of your finest work. Really sharp. In retrospect, the Beatles should have gone with your design when they reissued the special edition of the album for its 50th anniversary.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I want that Metropolitan Divison Champions banner and hopefully 2 other banners up in the rafters to start next season.

 

[FinnishDevil]

I think the 13-game heater was a fluke tbh. No way they make the playoffs, they won’t even be top-20 in the whole league when it’s all said and done.

Looking at their roster, coach, coaching staff, GM. The fact that they were trash last season with pretty much the same roster and staff 27-46-9 | 248-307 (-59)

versus

51-22-8 | 286-222 (+64)


Unreal season, 100% unsustainable.

/s this is a georgeleafer copypasta

 

[Mgd31]

I want another banner so let’s take the division tonight

 

[My3Sons]

Shero was pretty passive on the market for retooling gm. For example we did nothing on the market after 2018 season when we have only one productive line and made playoff with 1 point ahead. There were nothing in the prospect pipeline if we talk about the scale of construction new team, and he prefered to trade picks, he lost value of that picks.

Good quote.

"guys who could be traded for something else " Who? Stempniak. Boyle was too, but we should compete. Or he should act other way. Again like I said, big part of his "succes" was result of his failure. He should act one way, but he acted other way. And he did it wrong many times. Sometimes was passive, sometimes signed players with very questionable upside. Result of his act was the team with two FOA in 5 years spend two more years in rebuilding. Because he losted some high picks and pathologically can`t build good defense.

To me that last point is the overriding one. Shero just seemed to have no real eye for team building on defense. I get trading away Larsson for Hall. But overall, the defense was just an afterthought and he didn't structure it properly. Fitz clearly had more to work with but he managed to restructure it in two years. I don't think Shero saw anything wrong with the defense he left behind. Sure, Lovejoy and Ty Smith were poised to lead NJ to the cup finals this season. I'll give Shero full credit for at least making the right calls on the first two picks of Jack and Hischier but his mindset probably led to picking McLeod over Chychrun or McAvoy and Smith (who was a good prospect but like many small defensemen it's hard to overcome a skating deficiency). Shero also didn't really make much of an effort to add to the stockpile of picks simply trading expiring UFAs in non-competitive seasons. All in all he was a very mixed bag. He didn't add any bad contracts and got value in trades but his team building ultimately plateaud the team and forced Fitz to give up more picks to renovate the defense.

 

[Bleedred]

For some reason I get the feeling that Florida and the Islanders would both LOVE to play Carolina right about now.

Their offense isn't any good, particularly with Svech out and nobody is f***in afraid of Freddie the fossil or washed up Raanta. Especially not after his last couple of games against the Rangers in the playoffs last year.

 

[Bcap88]

For some reason I get the feeling that Florida and the Islanders would both LOVE to play Carolina right about now.

Their offense isn't any good, particularly with Svech out and nobody is f***in afraid of Freddie the fossil or washed up Raanta. Especially not after his last couple of games against the Rangers in the playoffs last year.

I think everyone wants to play them, they have no certified game breaker/scorer. Necas is their best forward right now and no one is lining up saying “oh shit necas has the puck watch out !”. Mix that with Freddy who’s been living off mediocre stats since Toronto they are really primed for a one and done

 

[NJDevs26]

OHBOY

 

[Bleedred]

Shero's downfall was thinking we could compete in 19-20 with a tandem of a 3 years into declining 33 year old Schneider and a still very inexperienced Blackwood. The Blackwood gamble worked out, but the Schneider one turned into Louis Domingue within 6 or 7 weeks and it was evident about 2 weeks into the season that he was burnt crispity.

But the weirdest part was when he sent his assistant GM (Fitz) down to the bench to ''Help'' Hynes or whatever it was, rather than just firing him right then and there. He kept Hynes on life support for about 6 weeks longer than he should have. And then he claimed that Hynes asked Fitz to come down to the bench and that it was his idea lol.

Other than that, I don't think he did a bad job here and was pretty surprised he got fired.

However, I think he would have been gone by now regardless, unless the season we're having right now happened last year. He wouldn't have survived 2021-2022 if he had survived the two seasons before that. That would have been one playoff berth in 7 years and none in the last 4 years. I can't think of a GM that survived something like that, other than the GM of an expansion team and not many of them even got that much time with hardly any playoff making and the team record/points percentage being worse in years 4, 5, 6 and 7 than it was in year 1 of his tenure and year 3 being the peak.

That said, maybe if Shero was still the GM the two seasons before this, things are done slightly different, since he would have probably ran things like he was on the hot seat if we didn't squeeze out at least one more playoff berth, and our 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 go slightly different?

 

[NJDevs26]

Tonight would actually be an ideal game for Luke to play, against a veteran team with nothing to play for and one foot on the airplane home? They’re 2-8-2 in their last 12 with one of the wins over the Blackhawks and anyone with a boo-boo is getting an early trip home.

The only way I don’t see the Devils winning is if the Canes get up multiple goals early and take the starch out of our game. Or we get trolled with bad Blackwood

WELP, we’re tempting the fates to make Blackwood happen

 

[Nocashstyle]

OHBOY

First time I’m actually happy to find out Blackwood is starting a game

 

[Unknown Caller]

Shero's downfall was thinking we could compete in 19-20 with a tandem of a 3 years into declining 33 year old Schneider and a still very inexperienced Blackwood. The Blackwood gamble worked out, but the Schneider one turned into Louis Domingue within 6 or 7 weeks and it was evident about 2 weeks into the season that he was burnt crispity.

But the weirdest part was when he sent his assistant GM (Fitz) down to the bench to ''Help'' Hynes or whatever it was, rather than just firing him right then and there. He kept Hynes on life support for about 6 weeks longer than he should have. And then he claimed that Hynes asked Fitz to come down to the bench and that it was his idea lol.

Other than that, I don't think he did a bad job here and was pretty surprised he got fired.

However, I think he would have been gone by now regardless, unless the season we're having right now happened last year. He wouldn't have survived 2021-2022 if he had survived the two seasons before that. That would have been one playoff berth in 7 years and none in the last 4 years. I can't think of a GM that survived something like that, other than the GM of an expansion team and not many of them even got that much time with hardly any playoff making and the team record/points percentage being worse in years 4, 5, 6 and 7 than it was in year 1 of his tenure and year 3 being the peak.

That said, maybe if Shero was still the GM the two seasons before this, things are done slightly different, since he would have probably ran things like he was on the hot seat if we didn't squeeze out at least one more playoff berth, and our 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 go slightly different?

Shero certainly wasn't perfect, he had some issues like not being able to construct a competent defense with size and instead constantly bringing in undersized puckmovers or aging ineffective guys like Lovejoy, Vatanen and Subban. But at the end of the day he had almost nothing to work with asset wise to bring in competent defensemen, so it's difficult to be too hard on him.

Those things aside, it's pretty safe to say that he did a great job setting the foundation for future success and for an organizational identity.

 

[Bcap88]

Shero's downfall was thinking we could compete in 19-20 with a tandem of a 3 years into declining 33 year old Schneider and a still very inexperienced Blackwood. The Blackwood gamble worked out, but the Schneider one turned into Louis Domingue within 6 or 7 weeks and it was evident about 2 weeks into the season that he was burnt crispity.

But the weirdest part was when he sent his assistant GM (Fitz) down to the bench to ''Help'' Hynes or whatever it was, rather than just firing him right then and there. He kept Hynes on life support for about 6 weeks longer than he should have. And then he claimed that Hynes asked Fitz to come down to the bench and that it was his idea lol.

Other than that, I don't think he did a bad job here and was pretty surprised he got fired.

However, I think he would have been gone by now regardless, unless the season we're having right now happened last year. He wouldn't have survived 2021-2022 if he had survived the two seasons before that. That would have been one playoff berth in 7 years and none in the last 4 years. I can't think of a GM that survived something like that, other than the GM of an expansion team and not many of them even got that much time with hardly any playoff making and the team record/points percentage being worse in years 4, 5, 6 and 7 than it was in year 1 of his tenure and year 3 being the peak.

That said, maybe if Shero was still the GM the two seasons before this, things are done slightly different, since he would have probably ran things like he was on the hot seat if we didn't squeeze out at least one more playoff berth, and our 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 go slightly different?

Shero had the vision but poor execution

Fitzgerald has the same vision as Shero but significantly better execution

Shero seemed to want all these light weighted speed demons including the back end. Fitz seems to prioritize players who are heavier but can still skate like the light weights

 

[Triumph]

Shero was pretty passive on the market for retooling gm. For example we did nothing on the market after 2018 season when we have only one productive line and made playoff with 1 point ahead. There were nothing in the prospect pipeline if we talk about the scale of construction new team, and he prefered to trade picks, he lost value of that picks.

I disagree about 'one productive line' - obviously Hall's line dominated and the rest took turns contributing, but there were a lot of hopeful signs even without Hall. Wood and Zacha gelled down the stretch and were beating their opposition. Remember what kind of deal Wood got signed to after 2018 and is still coasting on even now? They thought Wood could be a 25-30 goal scorer and a top 9 forward. Instead Wood turns back into a pumpkin and Zacha has to go to the minors for a weekend.

Noesen looked like a nice contributor in 2018, in 2019 he played hurt all year and was gone at the end of the season.

Shero made no real moves that offseason hoping that his young players could hold up, and almost all of them flopped - the only two who succeeded were Blake Coleman and Will Butcher who ended up flopping later.

"guys who could be traded for something else " Who? Stempniak. Boyle was too, but we should compete. Or he should act other way. Again like I said, big part of his "succes" was result of his failure. He should act one way, but he acted other way. And he did it wrong many times. Sometimes was passive, sometimes signed players with very questionable upside. Result of his act was the team with two FOA in 5 years spend two more years in rebuilding. Because he losted some high picks and pathologically can`t build good defense.

The only way to rebuild the 2015 Devils in 5 years would've been to scorch the earth. Trade Schneider and Greene and run the 2016 Devils into the ground. And the thing is, even that's not a guarantee you will keep your job or rebuild anything - Tim Murray got fired awfully quick in Buffalo when things weren't working out there. Tanking would've been a really easy decision to make if the Devils didn't have an All-Star goalie signed for 7 more years.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Shero certainly wasn't perfect, he had some issues like not being able to construct a competent defense with size and instead constantly bringing in undersized puckmovers or aging ineffective guys like Lovejoy, Vatanen and Subban. But at the end of the day he had almost nothing to work with asset wise to bring in competent defensemen, so it's difficult to be too hard on him.

Those things aside, it's pretty safe to say that he did a great job setting the foundation for future success and for an organizational identity.

Vatanen was soooo solid when he first came over. I wouldn’t lump him in that group.

I was shocked how much his game just suddenly took a nosedive

 

[My3Sons]

I disagree about 'one productive line' - obviously Hall's line dominated and the rest took turns contributing, but there were a lot of hopeful signs even without Hall. Wood and Zacha gelled down the stretch and were beating their opposition. Remember what kind of deal Wood got signed to after 2018 and is still coasting on even now? They thought Wood could be a 25-30 goal scorer and a top 9 forward. Instead Wood turns back into a pumpkin and Zacha has to go to the minors for a weekend.

Noesen looked like a nice contributor in 2018, in 2019 he played hurt all year and was gone at the end of the season.

Shero made no real moves that offseason hoping that his young players could hold up, and almost all of them flopped - the only two who succeeded were Blake Coleman and Will Butcher who ended up flopping later.



The only way to rebuild the 2015 Devils in 5 years would've been to scorch the earth. Trade Schneider and Greene and run the 2016 Devils into the ground. And the thing is, even that's not a guarantee you will keep your job or rebuild anything - Tim Murray got fired awfully quick in Buffalo when things weren't working out there. Tanking would've been a really easy decision to make if the Devils didn't have an All-Star goalie signed for 7 more years.

Shero and ownership made a number of statements about there not being any shortcuts to become competitive. Don't forget NJ ownership were the first to publicly acknowledge the process. I think if Shero sold them on a full tear down they'd have gone along with it.

 

[Omar Little]

Why don't they let Vanecek beat his old team

 

[Nocashstyle]

Why don't they let Vanecek beat his old team

He’s already played more games than he ever has in a season, let him rest. Absolutely no reason to have him start, especially if they’re trying to roll with Blackwood as the backup in playoffs. Lord knows Blackwood needs all the practice he can get.

 

[HBK27]

Clearly a 4D chess move by Ruff to start Blackwood. The team didn't play that great against Buffalo and Vitek had to consistently bail them out. They know they will have to be on their toes playing their best game tonight.

Plus, a 1st round matchup against the Rangers will eliminate any travel to start the playoffs, keeping the team fresher in later rounds.

 

[Triumph]

Shero and ownership made a number of statements about there not being any shortcuts to become competitive. Don't forget NJ ownership were the first to publicly acknowledge the process. I think if Shero sold them on a full tear down they'd have gone along with it.

Shero also compared the Devils to an expansion team and said things to the effect of 'if we wanted to be bad for 5 years, we could'. For better or worse, he was not interested in that, which makes it sound like Devils' ownership wasn't fully interested in that. And indeed, they weren't getting great press for outright tanking with their other franchise, which had already begun in 2013.

Ironically enough, while the Sixers 'did it right' vis a vis tanking, they really didn't do all that well drafting and it looks like they're going to miss a championship in this window and they may not even make a finals.

 

[Nocashstyle]

This seems like an awesome opportunity for her. Say what you will about THN, but it is a universally recognized (in the hockey world) publication.

I think Kristy has been a really underrated addition to the Devils beat. James Nichols has been good too. Both have given some good content this season.

It’s also probably much easier to cover a team when they’re actually good

 

[Oneiro]

Shero got the most important part right which was reconstructing the scouting staff that got back on track in the later draft rounds and preserving cap. Everything else is irrelevant next to that.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Shero got the most important part right which was reconstructing the scouting staff that got back on track in the later draft rounds and preserving cap. Everything else is irrelevant next to that.

*cough*Conte*coughcough*

 

[Bleedred]

My only worry with sitting Vitek is that he may go 7 nights (at least 6) without a game.

That may not be a big deal though. He didn't exactly come out of the all star game with his greatest game though.

Other than that, I don't care.