Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Vatanen's 31 years old NOW...if he didn't get seriously concussed in the playoffs he'd still be in someone's top four probably. But he did and that's why his career was never the same after 2018.

Fair enough, just a lot of people defended Shero when he was fired and I think as the dust clears it's becoming more and more clear his only real accomplishment was the Hall trade and not signing idiotic FA contracts, something this board seemed to love. Looking at what Montreal and Arizona (extreme i know) have been doing to rebuild also makes it look like Shero's "gonna outsmart you by trading 2nd/3rds for players you can't afford" strategy was a loser.

Also it's more and more clear to me that 2nd/3rd round picks were underrated I'd say (what Carolina has picked up on) and late 1st rounders were overrated, but I don't have any data to back that up at the moment just intuition.

 

[JimEIV]

Fair enough, just a lot of people defended Shero when he was fired and I think as the dust clears it's becoming more and more clear his only real accomplishment was the Hall trade and not signing idiotic FA contracts, something this board seemed to love. Looking at what Montreal and Arizona (extreme i know) have been doing to rebuild also makes it look like Shero's "gonna outsmart you by trading 2nd/3rds for players you can't afford" strategy was a loser.

Also it's more and more clear to me that 2nd/3rd round picks were underrated I'd say (what Carolina has picked up on) and late 1st rounders were overrated, but I don't have any data to back that up at the moment just intuition.

Palmieri was an excellent acquisition. And I really liked the Stempniak add.

But the Beau Bennett's and Auvitu's and Schlemko's were more the norm.

 

[jkrdevil]

I mean we've long pretty much surmised this, but I don't know if it's been specifically spelled out to that extent before. It was kinda weird they let him make the Hall trade THEN put their foot down on him though.

It is an odd thread, because she praises him for flipping said players to restock the cupboard, but almost none of those were flipped. The Hall trade has paid dividends and he gets credit for that, but that is it (and that tree starts with one of the good players on the 2016 roster.

She also praises him for the Gusev and PK trades and while those were defendable at the times, both acquisitions were a disaster and weren’t turned into anything that is helping now.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Mercer has earned his spot in the top 6, even if we bring in a high profile winger, how you break him off nico’s wing? They’ve been fantastic!

Palat-Hughes-Bratt
Meier-Hischier-Mercer

done. You can change the wingers however you want but there's room. I know I didn't list Shara but tbh I think he's lower on the dept chart at this point.

I also forgot about Tatar, and tbh I'd probably drop him down as well. Makes 3rd line stronger.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I love Mercer to death but I don't think he'll ever be a true game breaking wing.

I don't think so either, but I get the feeling of a clutch player from him, which is just as important.

 

[ParksnRec]

This is kind of dumb...6 years ago was the 2018 team... objectively the best team we've iced in a decade prior to this year....and every piece on the 2018 or 19 team that "didn't belong in the NHL" was a Shero addition.

Such hits as: Micro Mueller, Eddie Lack, Nick Lappin, Dalton Prout, Stefan Nosen, Will Butcher, Ben Lovejoy, John Moore, Ken Appleby....all Shero clunkers

Six years ago the Devils were the worst team in the East by eight points

You a timetraveler? We havent hit 2024 yet lol

 

[JimEIV]

I'm not sure what the criteria is for "Game Breaking Winger" is, but Mercer is on a 26 goals pace in his sophomore season...I don't think it's a stretch to think this player could pop 40 at least one time in his career.

 

[Forge]

Fresh thread, fresh Mercer games played talk.
View attachment 657343

Kessel being that kind of iron man will never be unamusing when looking at him

 

[Clam Jensen]

delete

 

[JimEIV]

Six years ago the Devils were the worst team in the East by eight points

You a timetraveler? We havent hit 2024 yet lol

6 seasons ago was the 2018 season...the one we made the playoffs.

Heres a visual

2018 (6 years),
2019 (5 years)
2020 (4 years)
2021(3 years)
2022(2 years),
2023(this season)

 

[Triumph]

6 seasons ago was the 2018 season...the one we made the playoffs.

Heres a visual

2018 (6 years),
2019 (5 years)
2020 (4 years)
2021(3 years)
2022(2 years),
2023(this season)

lol so nothing was a season ago? this is perfect jim numbering. 6 years ago is 2017. 6 seasons ago is the 2016-17 season. It's not very hard. Try counting backwards next time instead of forwards.

 

[JimEIV]

lol so nothing was a year ago? this is perfect jim numbering. 6 years ago is 2017.

2017 would be 7 seasons ago from today.

You have to count this season...This season is the reason for the retrospective. "From where we are today" so to speak.

Without this season, we are still a garbage bottom feeder.

 

[Triumph]

2017 would be 7 seasons ago from today.

You have to count this season...This season is the reason for the retrospective. "From where we are today" so to speak.

No, it wouldn't, and it's very obvious that even if your cockamamie counting scheme is correct, she means 2017 because that is when the roster was full of guys who never became full-time NHLers, when the Devils absolutely plummeted down the standings at the end of the year. Like, understand that if you have your system, that is just fine, but absolutely nobody else will adhere to that or mean it, ever.

This season is this season. 2021-22 is last season. 2020-21 is two seasons ago. 2019-20 is three seasons ago. 2018-19 is four seasons ago. 2017-18 is five seasons ago. 2016-17 is six seasons ago. There you go.

There's an old viral bodybuilding forum thread where a discussion about working out 6 times in two weeks eventually leads into an argument about whether there's 7 days in a week. We're getting close to that here, I can feel it.

 

[swiiscompos]

6 seasons ago was the 2018 season...the one we made the playoffs.

Heres a visual

2018 (6 years),
2019 (5 years)
2020 (4 years)
2021(3 years)
2022(2 years),
2023(this season)

Are you trolling us? A season ago obviously means last year, not the current year. 2 seasons ago would be a year before that, etc.

 

[TrufleShufle]

2017 would be 7 seasons ago from today.

You have to count this season...This season is the reason for the retrospective. "From where we are today" so to speak.

Without this season, we are still a garbage bottom feeder.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about in the big picture, but if 2017 is 7 years ago. Your post counting down has this year being 1 year ago.....

That's like saying today is Feb 26th, 25th was 2 days ago and today is 1 day ago.

Carry on.

 

[JimEIV]

No, it wouldn't, and it's very obvious that even if your cockamamie counting scheme is correct, she means 2017 because that is when the roster was full of guys who never became full-time NHLers, when the Devils absolutely plummeted down the standings at the end of the year. Like, understand that if you have your system, that is just fine, but absolutely nobody else will adhere to that or mean it, ever.

This season is this season. 2021-22 is last season. 2020-21 is two seasons ago. 2019-20 is three seasons ago. 2018-19 is four seasons ago. 2017-18 is five seasons ago. 2016-17 is six seasons ago. There you go.

There's an old viral bodybuilding forum thread where a discussion about working out 6 times in two weeks eventually leads into an argument about whether there's 7 days in a week. We're getting close to that here, I can feel it.

Right 7 seasons ago.

 

[Bleedred]

Now do goaltending and when you're done take a look at the supplementary players he added..

His horrific defense choices overshadows all else but the garbage he added on the wings as supplementary players is just as bad... especially when you had a young #1 overall in Nico with no real plan to aid him. The Gusev, Hayes, Stafford's, Noesen, Simmond's of the world were just horrific.


He was injured like every year before he got here and while he was here

I thought Noesen was a GREAT bottom-6 guy for us in his first full year here. He wasn't like the others you listed, who were all brought in to be top-6 guys.

At least the first year of Stafford he was or maybe middle 6 for him.

 

[Bcap88]

Lmao arguing about numbered seasons ago

 

[TrufleShufle]

Lmao arguing about numbered seasons ago

It is nice seeing that Jack is playing so well it's actually now easier to argue that how we all see time is incorrect.

 

[JimEIV]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about in the big picture, but if 2017 is 7 years ago. Your post counting down has this year being 1 year ago.....

That's like saying today is Feb 26th, 25th was 2 days ago and today is 1 day ago.

Carry on.

No... it's different... it's more like if you worked on a project February 25 and 26.... it's two days, not one... I'm sure no one would want to bill for 1 day.

If you are talking about the time it took to build a winner.... regardless of whether the the starting point is 2018 or 2017 or whatever your endpoint is this season as evidence of what has been built. From 2017 to today is 7 seasons to fruition.

 

[TrufleShufle]

No... it's different... it's more like if you worked on a project February 25 and 26.... it's two days, not one... I'm sure no one would want to bill for 1 day.

If you are talking about the time it took to build a winner.... regardless of whether the the starting point is 2018 or 2017 or whatever your endpoint is this season as evidence of what has been built.

Those are two different topics. One is length of time from beginning to end, which is fine. Saying 7 years ago, means last year was 2 seasons ago, and this year is 1 season ago.

Again, have no idea what broad point you were trying to make by picking a certain season and you could have a good point, but the way in which you are using "ago" is wrong. That much is true.

 

[Billdo]

Good stuff from Julie, read the whole thread

 

[JimEIV]

Those are two different topics. One is length of time from beginning to end, which is fine. Saying 7 years ago, means last year was 2 seasons ago, and this year is 1 season ago.

Again, have no idea what broad point you were trying to make by picking a certain season and you could have a good point, but the way in which you are using "ago" is wrong. That much is true.

This thread is only two pages....there should be no misunderstanding of the broad point....

But here you go in a nutshell:

Julie wrote a piece about how far we've come from 6 years ago and gave Shero credit... I thought 6 years ago was odd distinction because 6 year(seasons) ago was the last time we made playoffs

 

[TrufleShufle]

This thread is only two pages....there should be no misunderstanding of the broad point....

But here you go in a nutshell:

Julie wrote a piece about how far we've come from 6 years ago and gave Shero credit... I thought 6 years ago was odd distinction because 6 year(seasons) ago was the last time we made playoffs

Ahh yea, then you are wrong. Whether her point stands or not, she used 6 years ago correct.

 

[hidek91]

Fair enough, just a lot of people defended Shero when he was fired and I think as the dust clears it's becoming more and more clear his only real accomplishment was the Hall trade and not signing idiotic FA contracts, something this board seemed to love. Looking at what Montreal and Arizona (extreme i know) have been doing to rebuild also makes it look like Shero's "gonna outsmart you by trading 2nd/3rds for players you can't afford" strategy was a loser.

Also it's more and more clear to me that 2nd/3rd round picks were underrated I'd say (what Carolina has picked up on) and late 1st rounders were overrated, but I don't have any data to back that up at the moment just intuition.

While I agree that he shipped out 2nd round picks way too loosely, I think that your assessment of his tenure is unfair, especially given that Shero was left with a franchise that was basically in shambles after Lou's tenure (Fitzgerald had much more assets to work with, when he started his tenure as GM in 2020).

1) Hall trade wasn't just an accomplishment, it was a masterpiece.
2) You entirely forget Palmieri trade.
3) Henrique trade was a win-win situation because Vatanen had contract for 1 more year, while with Henrique you'd be forced to trade him away or to sign him to the long, risky contract and IMO he wasn't a type of the player you give this type of a deal to.
4) Drafting, with few blunders here and there, has generally been good. If you remember 2017 draft well, we could have easily ended up with the worst pick in the franchise history, had we made a mistake at #1.
5) If he signed stupid UFA deals or tried to 'accelerate' the rebuild by trading a top pick/prospect for a 'win now' piece, we wouldn't be enjoying a team that is basically contender now. And he couldn't really compete for top tier UFAs since the team he was left with was just awful.