Confirmed with Link: Devils sign Nathan Bastian to a 2 year deal
- Thread starter Its Always Sundstrom
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- Dec 20, 2018
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I assume healthy scratch, he was playing because they had a bunch of injured forwards. He played about six games with Barkov, then a game with Wennberg and then the rest on the fourth line with Acciari. Goose was scratched in the last regular season game because they played 7 defensemen.
By the playoffs guys like Verhaeghe, Marchment and Hornqvist were all back, that’s who he was subbing for. His numbers were good with the Panthers but their normal line-up was back and they are a fast, uh, attacking team.
billingtons ghost
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Just not true, and it's been shown to be that way time and time again. Clearly two of the teams in the conference finals are not the most talented. It isn't one game, it has been that way all playoffs long, and every year in every series. Time and time again, the team that buys in and plays disciplined, heavy, playoff hockey beats more talented teams.
You've pretty much lost your mind to cling to your Talent always wins assertion.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
what do you mean just not true? Youre telling me the best teams don't win?
"heavy playoff hockey" is such a 1990s term. I am sick of it.
The Lightning do not play heavy hockey. Pittsburgh didn't. Chciago didnt. The only team that won recently that did was STL
the LAST thing we should be doing is building the team just to be a 'heavy' team. Thats nonsense.
"heavy playoff hockey" is such a 1990s term. I am sick of it.
The Lightning do not play heavy hockey. Pittsburgh didn't. Chciago didnt. The only team that won recently that did was STL
the LAST thing we should be doing is building the team just to be a 'heavy' team. Thats nonsense.
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TrufleShufle
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- Aug 31, 2012
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Adding one player in Bastian isn't "building a heavy team." We have Jack we all want, we have Nico, Bratt, and Smith we all want.
Nobody is saying "build a heavy team," everyone is saying you need a little of everything to win playoff rounds. Bastion is a little part of the everything. That's all.
You choose some seriously weird hills to die on.
This argument has been had in the silliest fashion -
It's really hard to hit a player and separate him from the puck at the same time - usually at best you neutralize him. It's the threat of the hit that can force turnovers, but also, not necessarily - if a player makes himself smaller in order to line up a hit better, that's probably not a great long-term strategy.
Compounding this is the fact that the NHL used to be rife with players who were dismal territorially and were consistently among the league's hittiest players - not only were there the Cam Janssen class of player for whom the puck was a formality and best left to others to deal with, but there were your bad defensive forwards who were physical, guys like Travis Moen and Gregory Campbell who just got destroyed territorially.
That said, Bastian wasn't bad territorially last season, and I think it's really reductive to say that the Devils can just find what he brings in free agency - I don't see many players who fit his profile. I do think there's value to physical players in the playoffs when you are seeing the same team 4+ times in a row, not a high one, but some. Here's hoping the 2 year deal scares Seattle off.
It's really hard to hit a player and separate him from the puck at the same time - usually at best you neutralize him. It's the threat of the hit that can force turnovers, but also, not necessarily - if a player makes himself smaller in order to line up a hit better, that's probably not a great long-term strategy.
Compounding this is the fact that the NHL used to be rife with players who were dismal territorially and were consistently among the league's hittiest players - not only were there the Cam Janssen class of player for whom the puck was a formality and best left to others to deal with, but there were your bad defensive forwards who were physical, guys like Travis Moen and Gregory Campbell who just got destroyed territorially.
That said, Bastian wasn't bad territorially last season, and I think it's really reductive to say that the Devils can just find what he brings in free agency - I don't see many players who fit his profile. I do think there's value to physical players in the playoffs when you are seeing the same team 4+ times in a row, not a high one, but some. Here's hoping the 2 year deal scares Seattle off.
- Dec 20, 2018
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Tampa led the playoffs in hit/60 when they won the Cup, they hit everything that year. Hit stats are a bit of useless because they don’t count checks without a change in possession but that increase reflected their aggressive new checking forwards. Some years the Penguins did hit a lot, some years they didn’t.
Hitting is a hockey play, you can gain possession of the puck and it’s part of forechecking. And don’t know how you haven’t noticed teams physically bully players in the playoffs, Marner was targeted by Montreal and he stopped doing things with the puck. And Clutterbuck took out Carlo and they can pretend it’s an accident but he’s always been Mr Borderline Play on the Edge Guy.
You take up space so the other team make plays, hockey is about positioning. Size and strength is always an advantage. That doesn’t mean you can’t have smaller skill players but you have to figure out how to balance it out so the team doesn't get dominated.
I’m all about generating offense, driving play and creating shots because your team is going to lie like a log without that and not score and get caved in and eventually get scored on. You can be a physical, hard hitting, bad hockey team, it’s not a stand alone key to success. But the physical reality of on ice collisions can’t be ignored.
Everyone here is “pro-talent”. There aren’t random idiot energy players anymore like Cam Janson running around hitting people and hitting is down. But actual players, particularly those with size, who can hit are valuable, for the hitting part. Coleman’s hitting is part of his value. Obviously, just a part.
Hitting is a hockey play, you can gain possession of the puck and it’s part of forechecking. And don’t know how you haven’t noticed teams physically bully players in the playoffs, Marner was targeted by Montreal and he stopped doing things with the puck. And Clutterbuck took out Carlo and they can pretend it’s an accident but he’s always been Mr Borderline Play on the Edge Guy.
You take up space so the other team make plays, hockey is about positioning. Size and strength is always an advantage. That doesn’t mean you can’t have smaller skill players but you have to figure out how to balance it out so the team doesn't get dominated.
I’m all about generating offense, driving play and creating shots because your team is going to lie like a log without that and not score and get caved in and eventually get scored on. You can be a physical, hard hitting, bad hockey team, it’s not a stand alone key to success. But the physical reality of on ice collisions can’t be ignored.
Everyone here is “pro-talent”. There aren’t random idiot energy players anymore like Cam Janson running around hitting people and hitting is down. But actual players, particularly those with size, who can hit are valuable, for the hitting part. Coleman’s hitting is part of his value. Obviously, just a part.
billingtons ghost
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We are talking about 1 (one) player that we have on the team that is signed for 825k and brings a couple of elements that we do not have except for Miles Wood who really doesn't even bring physicality anymore. The reality is we probably need one more guy like Bastian and hopefully some of our skill guys like Sharangovich fill out and get more physical to be able to compete in the playoffs. It's nice that McLeod can win some faceoffs and in theory add some skill while being able to fill Coleman's role - but as of now, if we intend to win a Cup someday, we can't be getting rid of guys like Palmieri who have that blend, and expect to move forward if we lose Bastian as well.
It's pretty well proven that teams cannot win in the playoffs on skill alone. I really don't expect Jack or Jesper or Nico to be smashing around in the corners - and it certainly isn't clear that Merkely is even an NHLer at this point.
Sorry you don't like 'heavy' team, but Boston, St Louis, Vegas, the Isles and MTL are all heavy teams.
I don't need a 'heavy' team - but I would like for us to be difficult to play against.
teams who match skill and physicality win, not just skill
Well our team is softer than baby shit and I’m pretty sick and tired of watching them get bullied by every team they play. You don’t need a goon line but you bette have some guys who can throw their weight around.
glenwo2
LINDY RUFF NEEDS VIAGRA!!
Fixed.
You forgot about @Amerisuomi Kiekko 's obsession with wanting Bastian and McLeod being protected while Bratt was unprotected.
BurntToast
Registered User
While 4th liners are replaceable. The Devil’s product is currently built on hopes and dreams. Bastian was reliable/consistent in the A, played well in his first call up, he played great in his given roll last season (was injured which effects his point totals) and is only 23. There is still potential for him to be a more productive point producer.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
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I'm a big fan of this analogy. The whole hitting is bad because you don't have the puck meme really jumps the shark at times. Especially since possession stats frequently get treated as more important than actually DOING something with the puck possession.
And those skilled teams have hard players to complement their skill. Again 'teams are like orchestras'. You can't have an entire team of small finesse players any more than you can have an entire team of big slow grinders.
It’s got to the point that a team wants the entire package in their players. Skill, skating, size and strength. See Vegas’ roster. They’ve eliminated pretty much anyone who doesn’t fit that bill. Bastian is a relatively balanced player. The speed looks at least average, he’s got pretty good hands and vision, the shot isn’t bad, his size is good. At 825K he’s a bargain. He isn’t superlative in any of these areas but “good enough,” okay. He makes our roster and pretty much any other in the league for that reason. A 3d or 4th line guy but can be plugged in anywhere, even with more skilled guys because he can play a positional game and can finish a chance. Is he replaceable if we lose him? Probably. Even in our system maybe Studenic will bring more speed and dynamism to his role? I
don’t know, we may even have other candidates.
don’t know, we may even have other candidates.
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Auto Pilot
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- Sep 7, 2019
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Lol Bastian is a fourth line plug that plays at replacement level, if that. Bastian can’t be plugged in anywhere and shouldn’t be plugged into the top lines since he is too slow not skilled enough.
people want to protect something that is easy to find over a guy that has good underlying numbers and put up 20 goals in a season before.
SteveCangialosi123
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I like Bastian. Would not be surprised whatsoever if he has a better career than McLeod or Kuokkanen.
Classic Devil
Spirit of 1988
Bastian isn't being protected no matter what. With our current roster, the only real debate is McLeod or Johnsson.
The funniest thing about this debate to me is that I'm not involved in it.
Are there really hockey fans who think physicality and compete level don't help a team win hockey games? Are there really people who think a low-compete, low-IQ player who scored 12 goals in his last 100 games over two seasons is a "skill player"?
It's a simple solution. You protect Mikey McLeod. You call Ron Francis and ask him if a 4th round pick is enough to keep him from picking Nathan Bastian. It probably would be. This is an obvious solution, and it's weird to think anyone would think otherwise.
Are there really hockey fans who think physicality and compete level don't help a team win hockey games? Are there really people who think a low-compete, low-IQ player who scored 12 goals in his last 100 games over two seasons is a "skill player"?
It's a simple solution. You protect Mikey McLeod. You call Ron Francis and ask him if a 4th round pick is enough to keep him from picking Nathan Bastian. It probably would be. This is an obvious solution, and it's weird to think anyone would think otherwise.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
I agree. I have no qualms with giving up a mid round pick so they take someone like Butcher. I'm on the other side of your argument on Johnsson though, I want to see how he does with a full, normal year here. I get why some are sour on his performance this year, but his underlying numbers at least show some sort of promise.
I wouldn't shed a tear if he was taken though.
Goomba
Mario is a Devils fan
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Not sure id pay a mid-round pick to keep Bastian
I would, however, pay a mid-round pick to move Butcher. He isnt a cap issue but his roster spot prevents a youngin from coming up.
so in theory I guess I would pay a mid-round pick to keep Bastian, except its for the purpose of moving Butcher instead lol
I would, however, pay a mid-round pick to move Butcher. He isnt a cap issue but his roster spot prevents a youngin from coming up.
so in theory I guess I would pay a mid-round pick to keep Bastian, except its for the purpose of moving Butcher instead lol
Keeping Butcher in the press box as an injury replacement or if Smith needs a break isn't the worst thing in the world for the upcoming season. He fills a role that guys like Bahl, Okhotiyuk, et al, don't. I doubt SEA wants an extra fourth round pick rather than just take the guy they like the most if reports are to be believed about Francis asking for very high draft picks to agree on who to draft.
While that's a nice idea, at some point with a veteran guy like Butcher he needs to be given a chance elsewhere. If the Devils have to take back a similar contract, so be it, but there's no way he should be in the press box for half the year again unless he is somehow totally unmovable.
Goomba
Mario is a Devils fan
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Only quarrel there is I think they dont just see Butcher as an injury replacement guy, and instead see him as an automatic #6-7. Which could prevent a guy like Walsh coming up if he performed well in training camp
though this is all minor, and not Nocturne E-flat major
As a 7 Butcher is fine in my view. As a 6 it's not fine as I see it. If the team doesn't go into the UFA market to get a vet like Murray to play in the top four and relies on Butcher that's a pretty big failure to me. I'm not sold on Siegenthaler but my guess is that they give him the inside track on LD3. I'd prefer that Butcher go to SEA but I imagine there will be better options available to them and they'll take Bastian since he's likely relatively inexpensive and has shown he can at least play an NHL fourth line role and maybe there is upside in a year or two for a third line spot.
Is another Johnsson on the team a better option than Butcher in the press box? Butcher will get a chance with another team after next season at the latest. My guess is that had a decent trade option presented itself Butcher would have been moved already. He's pricey for a third pair guy in a flat cap environment so I doubt he's moveable.
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