Confirmed with Link: Devils sign Nathan Bastian to a 2 year deal

[Forge]

I just don't see any way save for a big shake-up trade

We all know that

Hischier
Bratt
Zacha
Wood
Sharangovich
Kuokkanen

are locks. Thats 6. So that leaves one slot open for one of McLeod, Bastian, or Johnsson. McLeod plays the more important position so you'd think he gets the nod.

I think Corey still projected us to protect Johnsson in his last athletic expansion draft talk, which just completely blew my mind

 

[Guttersniped]

Maybe in the future but I’d have to say I think 2 season ago Rooney was more effective than this season Bastion. At least, it’s be hard for me to say one was better than the other; Rooney even gives you some grit and I think his extra quickness allowed him to apply it more effectively.

I think Bastian will still improve a little so I think he tops out more slightly effective than Rooney but as of this second they’re almost a push, for me.

I still have trouble seeing Bastian as a difference maker on a good team without him getting quicker.

During Rooney’s equivalent season he had just gotten of college and was having his first full pro season in the AHL. Rooney was 25 when he played 41 games in his first NHL season two years later.

Rooney is a good defensive center (and a lack offense made affordable for the Rags), but he lacked the physical element and he was an offense void. Rooney didn’t particularly have better defensive stats. (He did have better PK stats but *gestures at the horror we witnessed on special teams this season*.)

Hits are one of the more meaningless stats in hockey. I don't care if a player has 0 hits or 300 hits.

When you have a lot of hits, it means you are chasing the puck a lot.

Everybody on the team doesn’t have to hit and team hitting counts don’t necessarily mean much in the regular season but if you don’t think players like Clutterbuck don’t effect games with their hitting then we have different takes on we’re watching.

If hit you players hard then they stop want the puck so much or they start thinking they’re going to end up like Carlo in a dark room somewhere. That’s what the hitting is about. The only team with more hits/60 in the bubble playoffs than Tampa was Dallas. Vegas hits. Isles hit. It’s not magic, the leading hitting teams per /60 this year are the Wild and the Jets. (But Vegas and Isles are in the top 5 and it’s pretty bunched up there.) It’s a strategy and it can work. You can see players shy away and you can see them not want to possess the puck so much.

With the Coleman and Goodrow trade, their hitting was a selling point for both guys.

And Bastian is good at hockey. And I would want a Bastian-type player when they’re factory fresh and very cheap. That’s why grow your own rather than pick up one when it’s old and broken out of UFA pile.

I think there’s a good chance we lose him to Seattle but I will stand by my boy Nate until that happens because he has real value. Gosh darn it!

 

[TrufleShufle]

and then I quickly changed what I said.

Anything can happen in a 7 game series. Bounces, luck, a hot goalie, etc. But over the long haul, give me the team with the best overall players and that team will win the Cup more often than not

I don't care what the Leafs fans have to say. They aren't exactly known as the most rational or smart fans. Toronto lost because of Price and their top players not showing up. The end. There is no other reason.

Exactly my point, you don't think they would use Price as a way to shield themselves from the idea that even though they have some of the best players, their team is built like shit?

Bastian isn't Mcdavid, we got that, but successful teams have player like him. Will he make or break the team, no. But your team shouldn't be built in a way that is broken if one player isn't there. Bastian is a great piece for the 4th line. He is young, looks to be getting better and now on a great contract for two more years. Shove him down at the bottom, use him the way he is meant to and figure out the D and a winger.

Tampa is arguably one of, if not the most skilled teams in the league. But Coleman played a massive role in them winning, along with the rest of the team. The way teams should be built.

 

[GeNeXt]

I think Corey still projected us to protect Johnsson in his last athletic expansion draft talk, which just completely blew my mind

I could see it happening. Fitz was very defensive in one interview about Johnsson being "unlucky", and may protect him to make one of his first "hockey trades" as a GM look better.

 

[Forge]

I could see it happening. Fitz was very defensive in one interview about Johnsson being "unlucky", and may protect him to make one of his first "hockey trades" as a GM look better.

I was never a huge Johnsson fan, but I do expect him to bounce back positively in some regard next year. I think ideally he's a third line guy so I won't weep if we lose him and if I have to lose someone between he, Mikey and Nate, it's definitely Johnsson even though he may be the most protective offensively long term

 

[Oneiro]

Biggest case for "keeping" Bastian vs. replacing him is just chemistry and not having to teach what you want. You are paying a premium over 825k for any fourth liner worth signing.

Whether Johnsson is protected or not might be a good tell for how much clout Dallow and Cane have but ultimately, with that 7th protection slot, we're talking about an issue that doesn't matter much. I'm glad this is happening in what amounts to garbage time for the franchise.

 

[JimEIV]

i already explained what was flawed about it lol. your statement is true, but once you apply proper context it gets problematic. when jimbo says hughes only has 52 points in 2 seasons, that is a fact. but once you take into account the context (our generally shit team, his age, covid, his obvious year over year improvement etc etc etc) it gets very flawed.

"Context" egh? Lol

Does "context" mean I got more excuses than you can answer in one post? Or is that the King and I etc, etc, etc part?

 

[Guttersniped]

Biggest case for "keeping" Bastian vs. replacing him is just chemistry and not having to teach what you want. You are paying a premium over 825k for any fourth liner worth signing.

Whether Johnsson is protected or not might be a good tell for how much clout Dallow and Cane have but ultimately, with that 7th protection slot, we're talking about an issue that doesn't matter much. I'm glad this is happening in what amounts to garbage time for the franchise.

What are you guessing Dallow’s and Cane’s position on Johnsson is? I don’t know what you mean by that.

 

[goonybird]

You said good 4th liners are real easy to find. All toronto could find was over the hill grey beards

their top 4 players make twice as much as our entire forward crop combined. Might have something to do with it

 

[MartyOwns]

"Context" egh? Lol

Does "context" mean I got more excuses than you can answer in one post? Or is that the King and I etc, etc, etc part?

i…don’t know what any of that means. and i never saw the king and i.

when people say lou drafted like an asshole for 15 years, you’ve been happy to say that we didn’t have the high draft picks that shero enjoyed (aside from larsson). was that context or an excuse?

 

[devilsblood]

I could see it happening. Fitz was very defensive in one interview about Johnsson being "unlucky", and may protect him to make one of his first "hockey trades" as a GM look better.

But that would then mean exposing McLeod?

If I remember right both Johnsson and Bastian have both been consensus unprotected.

 

[Bleedred]

To protect Johnsson would be stupid. I don’t even think they’d take him anyway.

 

[devilsblood]

and then I quickly changed what I said.

Anything can happen in a 7 game series. Bounces, luck, a hot goalie, etc. But over the long haul, give me the team with the best overall players and that team will win the Cup more often than not

I don't care what the Leafs fans have to say. They aren't exactly known as the most rational or smart fans. Toronto lost because of Price and their top players not showing up. The end. There is no other reason.

Best overall does not equal most skilled.

Obviously skill is a major consideration, but it's not the only consideration.

 

[devilsblood]

During Rooney’s equivalent season he had just gotten of college and was having his first full pro season in the AHL. Rooney was 25 when he played 41 games in his first NHL season two years later.

Rooney is a good defensive center (and a lack offense made affordable for the Rags), but he lacked the physical element and he was an offense void. Rooney didn’t particularly have better defensive stats. (He did have better PK stats but *gestures at the horror we witnessed on special teams this season*.)

Everybody on the team doesn’t have to hit and team hitting counts don’t necessarily mean much in the regular season but if you don’t think players like Clutterbuck don’t effect games with their hitting then we have different takes on we’re watching.

If hit you players hard then they stop want the puck so much or they start thinking they’re going to end up like Carlo in a dark room somewhere. That’s what the hitting is about. The only team with more hits/60 in the bubble playoffs than Tampa was Dallas. Vegas hits. Isles hit. It’s not magic, the leading hitting teams per /60 this year are the Wild and the Jets. (But Vegas and Isles are in the top 5 and it’s pretty bunched up there.) It’s a strategy and it can work. You can see players shy away and you can see them not want to possess the puck so much.

With the Coleman and Goodrow trade, their hitting was a selling point for both guys.

And Bastian is good at hockey. And I would want a Bastian-type player when they’re factory fresh and very cheap. That’s why grow your own rather than pick up one when it’s old and broken out of UFA pile.

I think there’s a good chance we lose him to Seattle but I will stand by my boy Nate until that happens because he has real value. Gosh darn it!

I agree on the age factor in regards to Rooney vs Bastian.

But Rooney brought a ton more speed. Bastian brings physicality. I actually liked Rooney, Bastian is a better fit to the current Dev's.

I think McLeod is a better and younger version of Rooney.

 

[JimEIV]

i…don’t know what any of that means. and i never saw the king and i.

when people say lou drafted like an asshole for 15 years, you’ve been happy to say that we didn’t have the high draft picks that shero enjoyed (aside from larsson). was that context or an excuse?

I don't mind admitting it is somewhat of an excuse...I have always believed that was tradeoff though. So not a matter of happenstance or luck or unplanned/undesirable circumstances... but a chosen path, a conscient decision. A direct result of winning games.

In the Jack example there doesn't seem to be a point to the "context" other than to dismiss the actual result as non-important whereas my excuse is focused directly on the actual result...Seems quite different to me?


And just keep on topic...I would like very much to keep Bastian but I don't see how that happens without finagling some sort of deal...I mean would anyone in their right mind chose Johnsson or Butcher over Bastian under normal circumstances?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Best overall does not equal most skilled.

Obviously skill is a major consideration, but it's not the only consideration.

Yes, to me Best players = most skilled players

we're arguing semantics at this point

 

[devilsblood]

I don't mind admitting it is somewhat of an excuse...I have always believed that was tradeoff though. So not a matter of happenstance or luck or unplanned/undesirable circumstances... but a chosen path, a conscient decision. A direct result of winning games.

In the Jack example there doesn't seem to be a point to the "context" other than to dismiss the actual result as non-important whereas my excuse is focused directly on the actual result...Seems quite different to me?


And just keep on topic...I would like very much to keep Bastian but I don't see how that happens without finagling some sort of deal...I mean would anyone in their right mind chose Johnsson or Butcher over Bastian under normal circumstances?

I could def see Seattle taking Johnsson or Butcher over Bastian. I could also see them taking Bastian.

Many here prefer Bastian, including myself, and I would add a sweetener to keep him, but I don't think it's a slam dunk that he's the guy Seattle would take without a sweetener.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes, to me Best players = most skilled players

we're arguing semantics at this point

Sometimes you have to argue semantics to understand what people are saying.

Do you include smarts and speed in the skill's basket? Would you include a players ability to shield the puck with his body in the skill's basket?

How bout a guy like Bahl who is able to use his reach so well defensively?

 

[JimEIV]

I could def see Seattle taking Johnsson or Butcher over Bastian. I could also see them taking Bastian.

Many here prefer Bastian, including myself, and I would add a sweetener to keep him, but I don't think it's a slam dunk that he's the guy Seattle would take without a sweetener.

Really? They both make more than they should and both are UFA's in 2 years? Bastian is cheap, cost controlled and has much more potential for upward trajectory....I can't really see a scenario where Butcher or Johnsson would be more desirable? Am I missing something?

 

[None Shall Pass]

Really? They both make more than they should and both are UFA's in 2 years? Bastian is cheap, cost controlled and has much more potential for upward trajectory....I can't really see a scenario where Butcher or Johnsson would be more desirable? Am I missing something?

I can't see for Johnsson, but d-men are always a value pick for these situations because they're at a premium. Could see a scenario where Butcher is picked then flipped with cash retained for draft picks or something else.

Still think Bastian is a better pick for them, though. Unfortunately for us.

 

[devilsblood]

Really? They both make more than they should and both are UFA's in 2 years? Bastian is cheap, cost controlled and has much more potential for upward trajectory....I can't really see a scenario where Butcher or Johnsson would be more desirable? Am I missing something?

Johnsson was a .5 ppg player entering this year, prior to this season Johnsson over Bastian was a no brainer.

Then in a season in which Johnsson put up 5 goals and 11 points in 50 games, while Bastian put up 3 goals and 10 points in 40, Bastian has clearly surpassed him?

Not to mention the analytics which say Johnsson had a solid season underneath the unimpressive points totals. Now you may not like the analytics but we do know teams do consider them.

And clearly a similar argument can be made for Butcher, where past seasons both in terms of NHL point totals and analytics say he is a clear choice. AND this year put up more points then Bastian in about 20 less games.

Now we do need to consider that Seattle will be to some extent making it up as they go. If they are able to find a better smallish offensive oriented lhd then Butch, then yeah they don't take Butch. On the other side maybe they find a couple good physical rw's and thus a buy like Bastian would be redundant. And that stuff is near impossible for us to predict right now.

But clearly there is strong rationale out there for picking either Johnsson or Butch over Bastian.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Not sure whats flawed about it? Its just a fact.

True or false-

you can register a hit when you have the puck

its the same reason why I don't care that Hughes has a bunch of giveaway because it means he has the puck a lot

True or false: hits matter come playoff time? If you've ever played in a contact league, you sure know that hits matter.

Don't know how you can even take this position, given that list of names and what they've meant to their teams in this year's playoffs. Hathaway alone could've been the Caps MVP if they advanced. It seemed like Aube-kubel was the only effective Pen once Sid's line got shut down some games.

Your assessment just runs contrary to facts.

 

[billingtons ghost]

the most skilled teams win the Cup

is that better?

Montreal is not going to win the Cup.

To keep beating this drum completely misses the point that well constructed, detail-oriented teams win Cups too. Game 1 of the Isles series was won because of a good line change.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

True or false: hits matter come playoff time? If you've ever played in a contact league, you sure know that hits matter.

Don't know how you can even take this position, given that list of names and what they've meant to their teams in this year's playoffs. Hathaway alone could've been the Caps MVP if they advanced. It seemed like Aube-kubel was the only effective Pen once Sid's line got shut down some games.

Your assessment just runs contrary to facts.

Like I said, I don't care. I want to build the team with the most skilled/best (again, semantics) hockey players. I don't want to build a team that is big or hits just because of some fairy tale thinking. You can have your Garnet Hathaways and Cal Clutterbucks.

To keep beating this drum completely misses the point that well constructed, detail-oriented teams win Cups too. Game 1 of the Isles series was won because of a good line change.

Again why are we talking about one game? Anything can happen in a one game sample size or even a 7 game sample size.

Over the long haul, the best/most skilled teams win. Not the teams with the most grit or biggest players or best hitters.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't think it's semantics to say Goose is a highly skilled player, but he's not a good NHL player.

I think it's an important distinction that fans should be able to make.