Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part II

[MartyOwns]

what do the people who don't want shattenkirk want to do? who do they want to bring in? i wouldn't be opposed to schultz at a good price, but i dont think adding him and adding shatty are mutually exclusive. who do they want? if these are supposed to be trades, who are we giving up?

 

[kiwidevil]

Seems like the more people that don't want Shattenkirk are keen to bring in another Lovejoy.

You don't want a player that makes any risky plays, tries to create offense, or make the odd defensive gaff?

You may as well bring in Lovejoy 2.0, to chip it off the glass every breakout, and be swimming on his belly most of the night trying to block the shot he just created for the opposition. The way the NHL is now, is that you want to spend less time on your own zone, or, not get there in the first place.

I agree that there is a point you have to say no. ie $7.5m+. But the more players like Shattenkirk you have on the team, means less time in your own zone, getting the puck up to Hall and co. Shattenkirk is far from the perfect Dman and he is no Hedman, Josi etc. But you try and find bargain bin Dmen of his ilk and you are bringing in another John Moore.

Then you can leave Lovejoy on the bench until a PK is needed.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I would rather avoid free agency if possible.

 

[kiwidevil]

I would rather avoid free agency if possible.

So how do we improve the defense? Do we trade Zacha, McLeod to the Ducks for a Dman?

 

[Cult of Hynes]

So how do we improve the defense? Do we trade Zacha, McLeod to the Ducks for a Dman?

You trade Henrique and a few picks to them, not Zacha and or McLeod.

Seems like the more people that don't want Shattenkirk are keen to bring in another Lovejoy.

You don't want a player that makes any risky plays, tries to create offense, or make the odd defensive gaff?

You may as well bring in Lovejoy 2.0, to chip it off the glass every breakout, and be swimming on his belly most of the night trying to block the shot he just created for the opposition. The way the NHL is now, is that you want to spend less time on your own zone, or, not get there in the first place.

I agree that there is a point you have to say no. ie $7.5m+. But the more players like Shattenkirk you have on the team, means less time in your own zone, getting the puck up to Hall and co. Shattenkirk is far from the perfect Dman and he is no Hedman, Josi etc. But you try and find bargain bin Dmen of his ilk and you are bringing in another John Moore.

Then you can leave Lovejoy on the bench until a PK is needed.

Who is saying bring in another Lovejoy?

Shattenkirk is an overrated one trick pony. IDK why the **** half the people that are so high on him here can't see that. He is not defensively good enough for a big contract, which is what it is going to take to get him here to NJ, a rebuilding team that was the worst in the Metro last year. He is not a top pairing dman, which is where he will be slotted and then exposed.

IDK why people cant see that saying that is not saying we need the perfect dman, the hyperbole there is absolutely ridiculous. We don't need a perfect dman, but we also dont need to be overpaying for a power play specialist that gets burned entirely way too much in his own end to justify the money that it is going to take to get him here. He is not worth anything more than 5.5 million a year.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You trade Henrique and a few picks to them, not Zacha and or McLeod.

and why wouldn't you do both?

we need at least 2 more DMen to add to this team.

 

[Emperoreddy]

You can't fix the D in one offseason.

Try and make a good trade to add, draft well, and you see how the season goes and reset for next offseason.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

You can't fix the D in one offseason.

Try and make a good trade to add, draft well, and you see how the season goes and reset for next offseason.

Yup. Though I have no issue if try with some free agents, just not overpaying for them.

 

[Emperoreddy]

My guess is Shero try's to focus our trade assets on acquiring D. 2017, 2018 draft picks, Kovy, maybe Rico, and maybe lower forwards like Blender or even JQ.

I think he mostly leaves the forwards alone barring some cheap depth UFA signing or a BB8 type of trade. Nothing big unless it falls into his lap.

Shero doesn't seem to have any desires to give up both big money and big term UFA deals right now.

 

[Classic Devil]

I have to believe Shero's looking at trying to nab one of the available d-men. Maybe he'll cut a deal with Vegas to nab one after they're claimed in exchange for picks. I'd love to get Brodin.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I have to believe Shero's looking at trying to nab one of the available d-men. Maybe he'll cut a deal with Vegas to nab one after they're claimed in exchange for picks. I'd love to get Brodin.

I definitely think this is his big offseason plan. He wants to snag D that wouldn't be available thanks to the expansion draft.

 

[Edmonton East]

Our whole problem on offense which relatively effects our team D is our d men have trouble moving the puck out of our D zone and transitioning to offense. Shatty can move the puck, score points. Is he elite defensively? no he's not but hes competent. Getting a puck mover will not only help our offense out it will put less pressure on the defense and cory

I agree and have said the same thing for years.

 

[Alex NJD]

I'm on the Shattenkirk train but if we miss out on him I'd like to try and add Vatanen for Henrique+

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'm on the Shattenkirk train but if we miss out on him I'd like to try and add Vatanen for Henrique+

 

[Blender]

Shattenkirk is a #3 or 4 offensive specialist. He's not a guy you play on the top pairing against the toughest competition. For that reason I would take him for $5 or $5.5 million AAV, but don't go any higher at all.

 

[kiwidevil]

I get the sentiment about trading Henrique for a Dman.

But it seems after this draft we might have something that actually resembles a forward group. Taking Henrique out of it, just dilutes it further again.

 

[NJDevs26]

If it's true I actually like the fact Shatty wants to go somewhere that is going to give him #1 dman responsibilities, possibly a reason why he nixed both the Blues and Tampa's extension offers - cause he clearly wouldn't be a #1 either place. Whether he can thrive in an expanded role is anyone's guess but at least he cares about being more than a #4/5 D PP specialist.

 

[Blender]

He's failed miserably every time he has been used in a top pairing role. If 4 teams now don't think he's cable of it, why exactly do you think he is?

 

[Emperoreddy]

He's failed miserably every time he has been used in a top pairing role. If 4 teams now don't think he's cable of it, why exactly do you think he is?

Because people want a quick fix and every free agency there is one guy everyone gets attached to and thinks is the answer to all our problems.

 

[kiwidevil]

And no one is saying Shattenkirk is going to fix the D group alone.

But as ZBC says. You add him then add another, things change in a hurry.

While trading Henrique ++, adds a Dman, it weakens the forward depth, back to where it was. We don't have any strength of assets to be drawing from, apart from 2-3/late round draft picks.

The only asset we have is cap space. You add Shattenkirk now, then add another Dman when the moment arises.

 

[NJDevs26]

He's failed miserably every time he has been used in a top pairing role. If 4 teams now don't think he's cable of it, why exactly do you think he is?

What four teams? The Caps don't really count, he was a rental for them. St. Louis and Tampa are two, and the Blues are stacked with d-men while he's just not displacing Hedman as the main guy in Tampa.

The closest he came to being a true #1 was 2014-16 in St. Louis when he averaged 22+ minutes TOI per game. He had 44 points in 56 games in 2014-15 with a +19, I don't see that as failing miserably. The next year 44 points in 72 games with a -14...that one wasn't too great but plus-minus I keep getting told means nothing with Severson being a -30 so....

 

[MadDevil]

Because people want a quick fix and every free agency there is one guy everyone gets attached to and thinks is the answer to all our problems.

Except many people who are advocating for Shattenkirk aren't saying he's going to fix everything. Why does every ****ing argument around here end up going to extremes in either direction?

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

I heard Arizona is gonna be really good in two years, so I doubt he goes anywhere.

Not with Willie E. Coyote in net

 

[MadDevil]

Shattenkirk fills a need for a top 4 defenseman, fills a need for an offensive skillset on defense, takes the pressure off Severson to be our only true puck moving D, and would allow us to use our myriad of picks to address other needs. He's not the solution to everything, but he could definitely be a piece of the puzzle. These guys don't come along in free agency every year, and are typically expensive to trade for. Sure, there's a chance he falls off a cliff at 32-33 and we're stuck with a bad contract, but I don't think that should completely scare us off of signing him. We do have to start showing some progress if we don't want to be stuck in this hell for years. Addressing our needs on defense through the draft would take at least 2-3 years. Doing it via trade likely means spending forward assets and/or picks, and is not going to be cheap either.

 

[devilsblood]

At ES over the last 2 years, from minutes played, to p/60, to relative corsi, to limited PK minutes(this year for Shatty anyway), 26-27 yr old Shattenkirk was near identical to 21-22 yr old Sev's.

Now I don't think we will see a marked improvement from Shattenkirk in the coming years.

So the Sev's that we have watched the last couple years, without any expected improvement, would you give that guy a 7 x 7 deal? I'm not.


So the question is how much do you value that PP expertise. And he is a legit expert at it, best in the game by a good margin in terms of pure #'s.
But does that pp ability carry that much weight? I dunno, maybe it does.