Devils 2016-17 team discussion (player news and notes) - Part XI

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I think if I was Shero I would try to trade for this guy at the deadline without an extended deal in place. That would help keep the trade price reasonable, and then you get to see how he actually fits in with the club for the remainder of the year. If he likes NJ and NJ likes him then you work on new long term deal. I don't see the point in giving St. Louis a ton a assets while also having to pay a ton in a new deal.

I don't think Shattenkirk signs anything till the summer.

Any team hypothetically trading for him would be trading for a rental, and paying for a rental.

 

[njdevil26]

If he wnats 7x7 i would have no issue with that. Likely won't happen cause he won't want to come here and lose plus our owners haven't shown willingness to spend like that.

That aside, I have no idea why we care he gets 7x7. We have the cap space and it certainly isn't going to hurt anything. I would love to get Alzner at the very least and probably go out and trade for a vatanen or something. If we stand pat and leave the D going forward then we are going to miss the playoffs for awhile.

I'm not sure about that yet. Who would they have spent the money on? Since they have been here, there haven't been any free agents that anyone here has really even wanted.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I still don't buy the "willingness to spend" argument - granted we traded $4M to do it, but we traded for $6M Hall this summer. And most of the available free agents were spare parts that got overpaid, not things a rebuilding team needs.

Not being willing to waste is a different thing than willingness to invest in something solid.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

arent our owners the ones that gave Palmieri, Greene, and Schneider their new deals?

 

[Baemon Severson*]

To be real, to sign Shatty, we will probably have to trade for him at the deadline. Not sure how much that will cost. But I'm all for it.

The only position the Devils look set at is LW with Hall, Cammalleri, Zacha, Wood and Quenneville in Albany. Unless you use Quenneville as a base (which I'm not sure STL does), I don't think we're getting him. Figure NJ picks 7-11, they can't give that pick for a player who might not even sign here. Especially when we need C, RW and D prospects in the worst way

 

[tailfins]

Without Clowe and Savard, the Devils are under the cap floor.

That's with the contracts to Palmieri, Hall, Greene, Schneider.

The cap floor forces some amount of spending.

I don't think there's any indication that the current owners are willing to spend a dime more than required for the product on ice.

 

[217 Forever]

arent our owners the ones that gave Palmieri, Greene, and Schneider their new deals?

Would we even be at the salary floor without them? If you don't spend $60M or whatever the number is exactly then they don't let you own a team.

I'm skeptical about our spending habits, but it's all an unknown at this point. We'll never know if Shero offered big deals to players already and got shot down or if he just hasn't really gone all out yet.

 

[217 Forever]

Without Clowe and Savard, the Devils are under the cap floor.

That's with the contracts to Palmieri, Hall, Greene, Schneider.

The cap floor forces some amount of spending.

I don't think there's any indication that the current owners are willing to spend a dime more than required for the product on ice.

You just beat me to it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

but I've still yet to hear who we SHOULD HAVE spent the money on. The only one that I would agree with would have been Goligoski, and he was traded for.

I'm all for spending if the scenario is right (see: Shattenkirk). But if its not, I don't want to spend just to spend.

 

[tailfins]

I'm not sure about that yet. Who would they have spent the money on? Since they have been here, there haven't been any free agents that anyone here has really even wanted.

The Devils had the chance to either spend money to put a better team on the ice for this year or to acquire assets for the future. Examples:

UFA: Okposo, Demers, Russell
Trades: Laich (+Carrick) and Bickell (+Teravainen)

I'm not saying that the Devils should have acquired all of these players. But, the notion that there was no one to spend money on is not accurate.

 

[Billdo]

Would we even be at the salary floor without them? If you don't spend $60M or whatever the number is exactly then they don't let you own a team.

I'm skeptical about our spending habits, but it's all an unknown at this point. We'll never know if Shero offered big deals to players already and got shot down or if he just hasn't really gone all out yet.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't necessarily believe they're giving Shero the open checkbook as claimed. Granted there hasn't necessarily been anyone to spend the money and only time will tell, but I'm definitely a bit skeptical of us having an internal budget.

 

[217 Forever]

The Devils had the chance to either spend money to put a better team on the ice for this year or to acquire assets for the future. Examples:

UFA: Okposo, Demers, Russell
Trades: Laich (+Carrick) and Bickell (+Teravainen)

I'm not saying that the Devils should have acquired all of these players. But, the notion that there was no one to spend money on is not accurate.

Folks like ZBC don't seem to understand that. Saying we've been prudent because you don't like what's available is completely different from saying there wasn't anyone to spend on.

 

[None Shall Pass]

The Devils had the chance to either spend money to put a better team on the ice for this year or to acquire assets for the future. Examples:

UFA: Okposo, Demers, Russell
Trades: Laich (+Carrick) and Bickell (+Teravainen)

I'm not saying that the Devils should have acquired all of these players. But, the notion that there was no one to spend money on is not accurate.

I'd rather play Auvitu than Russell, he's such hot garbage. Shero not signing him is a great move, and the fact that the guy went all summer until getting a cheap one-year deal, in an era where d-men are more valuable than gold, with the Oilers of all teams, is just added justification.

And jeez, the idea that we should have just signed a free agent, it's so wrong. That's a two-way street. How do we know Shero didn't try? Maybe Okposo didn't wanna play in Jersey after spending years with our rivals? Demers went to the Panthers, a team that was trending up in a hard way, plays thirty minutes from Miami and pays like no taxes. I'd go there too lol.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The Devils had the chance to either spend money to put a better team on the ice for this year or to acquire assets for the future. Examples:

UFA: Okposo, Demers, Russell
Trades: Laich (+Carrick) and Bickell (+Teravainen)

I'm not saying that the Devils should have acquired all of these players. But, the notion that there was no one to spend money on is not accurate.

A) you do realize that UFAs have to WANT to come to your team, right? I wouldn't have minded Okposo, but still.

B) why do people still bring up Kris Russell? literally no one wanted him until training camp basically. I don't understand

C) so are you going to completely discount the Savard trade? How do you know that Shero was not also involved in those other moves as well?

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

arent our owners the ones that gave Palmieri, Greene, and Schneider their new deals?

Yes.

The reluctance to spend narrative is more related to Shero than the owners. Shero recognized that we were not in a position to throw money around the last two years.

Now that our younger players have started turning a corner, it's probably time to open up the checkbook and fill out the roster.

 

[217 Forever]

A) you do realize that UFAs have to WANT to come to your team, right? I wouldn't have minded Okposo, but still.

B) why do people still bring up Kris Russell? literally no one wanted him until training camp basically. I don't understand

C) so are you going to completely discount the Savard trade? How do you know that Shero was not also involved in those other moves as well?

I recognize that perfectly and said as much in a post above. While I'm personally skeptical regarding what Shero is allowed to spend, I certainly don't know factually who we've bid on and for how much and why guys aren't coming here if we did make substantial offers. Nobody knows.

 

[njdevil26]

All of those players are older guys that would not be good for the rebuild that's going on.

So what you're saying is you want Shero/the Owners to overpay for UFAs in order to handcuff the salary cap just to prove they can do it?

 

[tailfins]

All of those players are older guys that would not be good for the rebuild that's going on.

So what you're saying is you want Shero/the Owners to overpay for UFAs in order to handcuff the salary cap just to prove they can do it?

I didn't realize that Teravainen and Carrick are considered older players.

 

[njdevil26]

I didn't realize that Teravainen and Carrick are considered older players.

But you'd be taking on Laich and Bickle to acquire them? Bickel is an injured 30 year old making 4.5 million this year. The Canes are done paying him in two months. So you think they are going to want to trade Teravainen to us? A guy they traded to get? Just to get out of paying Bickell for two months? What assets do we have to acquire him?

Brooks Laich is 33 and is making 4 million playing for the Marlies. The Leafs are done paying him in two months as well. They are also the wealthiest team in the NHL. They have no reason to trade a prospect just to get a two month cap dump.

 

[tailfins]

A) you do realize that UFAs have to WANT to come to your team, right? I wouldn't have minded Okposo, but still.

B) why do people still bring up Kris Russell? literally no one wanted him until training camp basically. I don't understand

C) so are you going to completely discount the Savard trade? How do you know that Shero was not also involved in those other moves as well?

A) You asked who the Devils should have spent money on. You said you had never seen a list. The list has been provided multiple times.

Btw, you're shifting from "who the Devils should have spent on" to "maybe they tried". Very different points.

B) I brought up Russell because he was literally a free asset. The Devils opted to sign the cheaper Quincey who the entire league also passed on. BTW - like any UFA, we have no idea who made offers to Russell. It's possible he had offers right away, but he / his agent wanted more money or more term. That's basically the rumor that made the rounds this off-season - not that no one was willing to sign Russell.

C) The Savard trade? Where they picked up $5 million in cap hit without having to spend a dime? I think that counts in the "owners are potentially cheap" column. The owners spending millions to bury Laich in order to get a young D prospect like the Leafs did? That I'd count in the owners spending to improve the team.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

so we have NO evidence that we did NOT try to acquire those players OR sign one of Okposo/Demers/whoever

but we're just going to jump to conclusions and say that we didn't even try any of that because our owners are cheap

makes sense.

 

[njdevil26]

A) You asked who the Devils should have spent money on. You said you had never seen a list. The list has been provided multiple times.

Btw, you're shifting from "who the Devils should have spent on" to "maybe they tried". Very different points.

B) I brought up Russell because he was literally a free asset. The Devils opted to sign the cheaper Quincey who the entire league also passed on. BTW - like any UFA, we have no idea who made offers to Russell. It's possible he had offers right away, but he / his agent wanted more money or more term. That's basically the rumor that made the rounds this off-season - not that no one was willing to sign Russell.

C) The Savard trade? Where they picked up $5 million in cap hit without having to spend a dime? I think that counts in the "owners are potentially cheap" column. The owners spending millions to bury Laich in order to get a young D prospect like the Leafs did? That I'd count in the owners spending to improve the team.

So Russell's 5 assists in 41 games this year at 3.1 million would have been better than Quincey's 4 goals and 8 assists in 51 games for 1.025 million?

I would like to think that the GM knows what he's doing and saved 2 million dollars by signing a guy who is performing better and may get us a draft pick at the deadline.

The Devils also got a 2nd round pick in the Savard trade which was the whole point. The practically bought a draft pick that can be used in a trade for a better player. You're picking that to call them cheap. You're ridiculous.

Demers signed a long term deal worth 5.5 million per year. Do you think he was going to sign a long term deal with a team that's rebuilding? The Panthers won their division and were in much better shape at the beginning of this season. They were a much more attractive option.

It also probably wasn't smart to sign a 28 year old to a long term deal when we aren't contending for a few years.

 

[tailfins]

But you'd be taking on Laich and Bickle to acquire them? Bickel is an injured 30 year old making 4.5 million this year. The Canes are done paying him in two months. So you think they are going to want to trade Teravainen to us? A guy they traded to get? Just to get out of paying Bickell for two months? What assets do we have to acquire him?

Brooks Laich is 33 and is making 4 million playing for the Marlies. The Leafs are done paying him in two months as well. They are also the wealthiest team in the NHL. They have no reason to trade a prospect just to get a two month cap dump.

Bickell was traded with Teravainen to the Canes from the Blackhawks in a cap dump. Same with Laich and Carrick (to TOR from WAS). That's why I brought them up.

If the Devils made those two deals, they would have picked up salary for this year. They're so far under the cap (excluding LTIR) that the salary would have been irrelevant. Those contracts then drop off the books next year, so there would have been zero impact on long term cap flexibility.

As ZBC has noted, what's the point of cap space if you don't use it? The Devils have basically $19 million in usable cap space this year. That's an asset wasted.

 

[njdevil26]

Bickell was traded with Teravainen to the Canes from the Blackhawks in a cap dump. Same with Laich and Carrick (to TOR from WAS). That's why I brought them up.

If the Devils made those two deals, they would have picked up salary for this year. They're so far under the cap (excluding LTIR) that the salary would have been irrelevant. Those contracts then drop off the books next year, so there would have been zero impact on long term cap flexibility.

As ZBC has noted, what's the point of cap space if you don't use it? The Devils have basically $19 million in usable cap space this year. That's an asset wasted.

My point is the Canes and the Leafs don't have to trade these players. What's to say the Devils didn't try something like that? The cap dumps that the Canes and Leafs would be making are so insignificant that there's absolutely no reason to waste a prospect to get it done. ESPECIALLY the Canes trading a good prospect in the division to us.

You sit there like you know what goes on in the Devils offices and what their dealings are with other teams. Like these teams are obligated to make these deals because they need to help show Devils fans that their owners are willing to spend money.

 

[tailfins]

so we have NO evidence that we did NOT try to acquire those players OR sign one of Okposo/Demers/whoever

but we're just going to jump to conclusions and say that we didn't even try any of that because our owners are cheap

makes sense.

Agree. It's entirely a conspiracy theory at this point.

I hope I'm wrong and that the owners will spend if / when Shero deems it makes sense.

The owners are smart business people, though, so the idea that the Devils are now more dollars and cents oriented now isn't outlandish.