Proposal: Detroit-Edmonton

[TFHockey]

IF NOT FOR INJURIES. I'm not sure if you just have trouble reading or? Did I say he currently is one? Nope. But I s quite obvious his value is more than that of 48pt player just like Yamamoto is not a 26pt player.

English is a tough language though so I can understand why you're having trouble following along.

I'll repeat. What is your excuse for his 15 points in 33 games this year? The math isn't hard. It's right there in front of you.

Until Mantha can prove he is a 30+ goal scoring forward he won't be valued that way on the market. We aren't talking about one season here. We are talking about ALL of his seasons. The guy always seems to miss games due to injury. This year? His numbers are only mediocre but the ask for him is astronomical.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The Oilers already have 2.25 million in dead cap space for the next two years. You propose to add another 2 million to that? Over 4 million a year for nothing? It was a bad decision to buy out Sekera. They already have 750k of dead cap space due to trading for Neal.

Cap space is more important than a draft pick at this point in time, especially for Edmonton. You package him along with a pick if you really want to get rid of him. Plenty of bottom feeder teams will do it. That is the best option. Not the two crappy ones you think Holland is going to pick.

I guess time will tell, but using up to 5% of your cap on air? That's poor cap management.

I think you’re underestimating the cost to unload his contract. Marleau cost the Leafs a 1st and only had one year left, Vegas gave away a useful right shot defender for a 3rd. Cap space is going to be even tighter this summer and there will be even more teams looking to unload bad deals, it’s going to be very competitive and very expensive.

I guess it comes down to what approach Holland takes to filling some of the holes in the roster. If he plans to go shopping in free agency then he can probably spend some good assets dumping Neal, if he prefers the trade route he’s going to need those assets to deal.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I'll repeat. What is your excuse for his 15 points in 33 games this year? The math isn't hard. It's right there in front of you.

Until Mantha can prove he is a 30+ goal scoring forward he won't be valued that way on the market. We aren't talking about one season here. We are talking about ALL of his seasons. The guy always seems to miss games due to injury. This year? His numbers are only mediocre but the ask for him is astronomical.

Ive already told you. When your linemates are awful, your PP is awful, and your team as a whole is awful then you wont put up points.

Ill use your logic and value Yamamoto as a 20-30pt guy then as well. Until he does more that's all he is

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I think you’re underestimating the cost to unload his contract. Marleau cost the Leafs a 1st and only had one year left, Vegas gave away a useful right shot defender for a 3rd. Cap space is going to be even tighter this summer and there will be even more teams looking to unload bad deals, it’s going to be very competitive and very expensive.

I guess it comes down to what approach Holland takes to filling some of the holes in the roster. If he plans to go shopping in free agency then he can probably spend some good assets dumping Neal, if he prefers the trade route he’s going to need those assets to deal.

Time will tell.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Am I missing something here with Mantha, lol seems just like another average top 6 forward....

He is one of Detroit's few valuable forwards and the fans are a little more protective of him than I expected. I thought it'd make sense for their timeline to move Mantha (a soon to be declining asset) for prospects (which will help them when they need it). Even if its not this proposal, I think Detroit would be smart to move Mantha for the best return they could get.

Apparently they'd rather keep him, which seems like poor asset management but to each their own.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

The Oilers already have 2.25 million in dead cap space for the next two years. You propose to add another 2 million to that? Over 4 million a year for nothing? It was a bad decision to buy out Sekera. They already have 750k of dead cap space due to trading for Neal.

Cap space is more important than a draft pick at this point in time, especially for Edmonton. You package him along with a pick if you really want to get rid of him. Plenty of bottom feeder teams will do it. That is the best option. Not the two crappy ones you think Holland is going to pick.

I guess time will tell, but using up to 5% of your cap on air? That's poor cap management.

I agree. 6 million by 2 years shouldn't be that bad to move and why waste 2 million for the next 4 years, especially when those 4 years will be very important.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Now that Mantha has turned 30 years old i wonder if he still has any value at all? He will be in his 40's next season and that cant be good.

seriously... how much use is a 53 yr old Mantha to edmonton? coaching staff?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

“You think its going to cost Broberg+Yamamoto+1st +Neal for Mantha?”

I think so.

”Way too much. Replace Yamamoto with a B/C level prospect”

Time will tell.

I am very interested in getting answers to my questions. I will ask them again:

Who has an opinion?

1. Neal's bad contract is worth 1st ???

2. What is the price of Manta - Broberg (Broberg +) ?????

Why would a team move Yamamoto for Mantha by himself, let alone their top prospect.

I like Mantha, but Yamamoto is probably worth more on his own when you factor in age and contract status. He is has better production this year where he has some major cold streaks and he doesn't even get PP time.

Edmonton wouldn't make that trade straight up, why are they throwing in their top prospect?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

IF NOT FOR INJURIES. I'm not sure if you just have trouble reading or? Did I say he currently is one? Nope. But I s quite obvious his value is more than that of 48pt player just like Yamamoto is not a 26pt player.

English is a tough language though so I can understand why you're having trouble following along.

But injuries happened, you can't predict how the rest of the season would have gone.
This is the same argument leafs fans have pulled for years. From 2016-2019 they attached (per/60) to every stat to deceitfully make Matthews look better because they believed Matthews' production would linearly increase with higher play time. Now here we are where Matthews is one of the highest played forwards getting consistently 22+ minutes, and guess what, the truth isn't nearly as pretty as they were expecting, I doubt they'll be attaching (/60) to all his stats now.

We'll never know what Mantha would have done in the last 15 games of 2019 but 5 goals in 15 games is far from a given, especially when you consider how everyone's pace always slows down as the season wears along. Same story in 2020, you can't equate the production over 82 games to a paced out stat line. That's why being healthy is valuable, it gives you a known commodity.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Why would a team move Yamamoto for Mantha by himself, let alone their top prospect.

I like Mantha, but Yamamoto is probably worth more on his own when you factor in age and contract status. He is has better production this year where he has some major cold streaks and he doesn't even get PP time.

Edmonton wouldn't make that trade straight up, why are they throwing in their top prospect?

because...ummm...Toronto? no..wait..that's not right

 

[MBH]

Thank you for your opinion. I apologize for not responding immediately.
I will try to answer the points.
Many different opinions have already been expressed about Manta in this forum thread. I will express my own. I think Manta is a top-6 player, in some teams Top-3 (Detroit….).

Agreed.

The low performance can be easily explained by remembering where Detroit is.

Easily explained. Not easily believed.
Mantha was more productive on last year's team which was worse.
One of the reasons why this team is SOOO BAD this year is because Mantha and others have taken a step back.

The illusion that the sale of a bad contract will be free of charge must be discarded.

DET Marc Staal + 2021 second-round pick – NYR Future considerations
I wrote in the fall that this is a very bad deal for DET. This ruled out the possibility of a DET - TBL (wage ceiling) deal. The term of the contract is Marc Staal for 1 year.

Nobody says the bad contract should be free of charge. Broberg by himself is worth more than Mantha. Bensen and the left over value from the Broberg trade make up for Neal.

Tell me, do you think this is a fair price?

Neal James = 1st 2021 EDM

Probably. Assuming that first stays relatively late.

Who are the players for Manta?

Manta - Broberg

I do this trade even up, and feel I like I won it.

Manta - Broberg + Benson

Now I'm ripping Edmonton off.

Manta -Broberg +Lavoie

Ditto

Manta - Broberg + Jones

Ditto

Manta - Broberg + Yamamoto

LOL.

 

[Henkka]

Mantha won't move without a 1st.

Neal is also negative value.

So something like

Mantha <> 1st+ Neal + prospect

***

Mantha was superior with Turris at WHC 2 years ago, imo, they should try them together.

X - McDavid - X
X - Draisaitl - X
X - Turris - Mantha

That's a damn deep offence.

 

[drw02]

Why would a team move Yamamoto for Mantha by himself, let alone their top prospect.

I like Mantha, but Yamamoto is probably worth more on his own when you factor in age and contract status. He is has better production this year where he has some major cold streaks and he doesn't even get PP time.

Edmonton wouldn't make that trade straight up, why are they throwing in their top prospect?

Literally the only reason Yamamoto has higher production is because he plays on good team with a high powered offense with two of the best forwards in the league. If you think he's even coming close to matching that playing for Detroit all year you're nuts. Mantha is quite easily the superior talent

 

[Ice Mammoth]

Why would a team move Yamamoto for Mantha by himself, let alone their top prospect.

I like Mantha, but Yamamoto is probably worth more on his own when you factor in age and contract status. He is has better production this year where he has some major cold streaks and he doesn't even get PP time.

Edmonton wouldn't make that trade straight up, why are they throwing in their top prospect?

In the season 2021/22
Yamamoto is on the same team as McDavid and Draisaitl.
Manta is on the same team with Larkin and Bertuzzi
Trying to understand which partners are better ???

I am thinking now:
2021/22 Manta> Yamamoto
2021/22… .. Manta ??? Yamamoto
Perhaps in the future Yamamoto will have 80 points, perhaps 40. This is currently unknown.
How will Broberg play in the NHL? This is currently unknown. Now Broberg <<< Manta.
We have different opinions about the value of Yamamoto, Broberg today. Tomorrow everything might be different.

Manta will help now.

TOR has strengthened its roster. I wrote in the fall that the main problem of the team is the goalkeepers (health). Dorion spoke of the possibility of exchanges. If TOR gets goalkeeper + LW + 3C + D?
What will be the result of the EDM - TOR series?
EDM needs amplification.

Neal James = 1st 2021 EDM is not controversial.
Manta = Broberg EDM fans agree

Manta = Broberg + Neal + 1st 2021
I think Detroit is saying no.

Manta = Broberg + Neal + 1st 2021 + Benson
I think Detroit is saying no.

If not available: Holloway, Bouchard, Yamamoto.

Manta = Broberg + Neal + 1st 2021 + Benson + Lavoie (Jones), ( Bear).
Manta = Broberg + Benson + Lavoie (Jones) (Bear)
Neal = 1st 2021

Detroit can add for free:
Glendening ($ 1,800,000 @ 50% Ret)
Bernier ($ 3,500,000 @ 50% Ret)
Total: $ 2,650,000

Detroit May Take Chiasson Contract (CAP SPACE) UFA 2021 $ 2,150,000

If Edmonton disagrees, both teams need different deal partners.

 

[thaman8765678]

James Neal has negative value. No way Detroit does this trade.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

James Neal has negative value. No way Detroit does this trade.

Hello.
Disagree now Detroit?

Neal = 1st 2021

2021/22 DET = Broberg + Benson + Lavoie (Jones) (Bear) + 1st 2021 EDM
Neal = $ 4,675,000 (TAXI SQUAD) UFA - 2023
Manta = $ 5,700,000 UFA - 2024

I think Detroit agrees.

 

[Syyncrow]

Terrible trade for the Oilers.

 

[Ice Mammoth]

Nobody says the bad contract should be free of charge. Broberg by himself is worth more than Mantha. Bensen and the left over value from the Broberg trade make up for Neal.

Hello. Thanks for the answer.

You wrote:

“Broberg by himself is worth more than Mantha. Bensen and the left over value from the Broberg trade make up for Neal ”

"Broberg by himself is worth more than Mantha".
Here I disagree with you.

I think now Mantha >>> Broberg (Broberg = 50% Mantha)
2021/22, 2022/23….???

You think now Mantha <Broberg (Mantha = 75% Broberg)
We strongly disagree on the cost of Broberg.

There is no point in arguing about it.
Both teams refuse the deal.
Good luck.

 

[MessierII]

I think you’re underestimating the cost to unload his contract. Marleau cost the Leafs a 1st and only had one year left, Vegas gave away a useful right shot defender for a 3rd. Cap space is going to be even tighter this summer and there will be even more teams looking to unload bad deals, it’s going to be very competitive and very expensive.

I guess it comes down to what approach Holland takes to filling some of the holes in the roster. If he plans to go shopping in free agency then he can probably spend some good assets dumping Neal, if he prefers the trade route he’s going to need those assets to deal.

That’s because were absolutely desperate for cap space. They needed to make a move as in no choice. Oilers aren’t in that position. We have tons of cap space this summer. We don’t need to dump Neal. Would be nice but it’s not needed.

 

[ManofSteel55]

"Mantha for Neal + Broberg + Benson"

Easy no for the Detroit Red Wings.

Bad contract Neal James = minimum 1st 2021 (optimal 1st 2021 +)
Mantha for Broberg + Benson - I think Wings says no.

To conclude a deal:

EDM:
Mantha

DET:
Neal
1st 2021
Broberg
? ? ? - UNKNOWN CANDIDATE (Benson doesn't fit).

Detroit is ready to listen.
Detroit will think.

Edmonton won't think about this for a second.

 

[ManofSteel55]

LMFAO, You honestly think that gets you Glendening and our 2nd best prospect after Mo Seider? No freaking way Detroit does this. We'll just give you our scraps for Leon Draisaitl.

That's how we feel about the original offer. Only it isn't our 2nd best prospect the OP asked for. It was our top prospect.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Why would Detroit trade Mantha when he is at his lowest value? He is also only making 5.7 million, which isn't that much.

If anything, Detroit will keep him until the last year of his contract and then trade him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Why would Detroit trade Mantha when he is at his lowest value? He is also only making 5.7 million, which isn't that much.

If anything, Detroit will keep him until the last year of his contract and then trade him.

This, Yzerman wont move him while his value is low. Give him a couple more season with the young players coming into Detroit's lineup in the next year or two he should get his numbers up again.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Most.
Most what?
Broberg has all the tools to be a beast.

Except a brain.

He learned how to play defense from the Brendan Smith school for kids who can't play defense good and who wanna learn how to do other hockey stuff good, too.

Recent alumni from this school include but are not limited to:
Dennis Cholowski
Madison Bowey (He made the dean's list)
Jakub Kindl
Ryan Sproul
Xavier Oullet

Adjunct instructors:
Trevor Daley
Luca Sbisa
Brandon Manning

Tenured professors:
Kevin Shattenkirk, who teaches 'How to pass across your crease: A primer to defensive decision making'
Carlo Colaiacovo, who teaches 'How to look good while sliding into the boards'
Dylan McIlrath, who teaches 'Hook, hold, slash and fight: How to stay in the AHL for life.'

Professor Emeritus:
Martin Skoula for his excellent work in the teaching of 'Having puck poise while panicking on the inside'.

Dean:
Brendan Smith, who also teaches a seminar titled, 'Should you pinch? Yes. Always.'

 

[GoingInDrai]

"Mantha for Neal + Broberg + Benson"

Easy no for the Detroit Red Wings.

Bad contract Neal James = minimum 1st 2021 (optimal 1st 2021 +)
Mantha for Broberg + Benson - I think Wings says no.

To conclude a deal:

EDM:
Mantha

DET:
Neal
1st 2021
Broberg
? ? ? - UNKNOWN CANDIDATE (Benson doesn't fit).

Detroit is ready to listen.
Detroit will think.

Oilers could put Lavoie in for Benson. Younger, bigger body, goal scoring power forward rather than the high hockey IQ savvy playmaker in Benson