GDT: Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures: Devils @ Islanders, 7 PM, MSG+

[Bleedred]

Goalie stats are over rated... don't tell the whole picture. Look at the shots they faced and the ones let's in... thats how I judge a goalie.

And I’ve counted 11 stoppable goals out of 34 allowed.

That’s about 32.5% of goals allowed. That’s congruent with the low save percentage. And last year when he had a .916 save percentage? That percentage was in the lower 20’s, same with his .915 year in 14-15. Literally almost 25% of his stoppable goals last year came in that game at the Barclays Center in February. His other poor season in 15-16 (.904) it was a similar percentage around 30-33%.

If he allowed 4 fewer goals this year, he’d be a .916 goaltender like he was last year.

 

[Bleedred]

I have no idea what your point is

My point is that you (really Haak04) are championing a goalie that’s played poorly this season because of two good consecutive games and using it as a case to say that I’m wrong for critiquing his play or saying that he’s played poorly.

And the fact that we’re praising a .901 goaltender really makes me understand why so many mediocre goalies in the league (Allen and Jones) get all this praise from fans and media and are called “Good” when they’re no better than average starters.

Kinkaid in his career is an average backup. Good one year, then not good the next year. That’s one of the biggest characteristics of a career backup. Look up Montoya, Johnson, McElhinney, Greiss, etc. they all have fluctuating numbers from year to year and almost no consistency from season to season, just like Kinkaid.

 

[Bleedred]

A little more mixing of use will give rest and keep them both sharp

No mixing.

Play Kinkaid like the backup and Cory like the starter, barring a huge drop off in Cory’s play and a huge uptick in Keith’s play.

If we throw him in against the Caps and Cory is healthy, we’re really testing our luck and I’ll maintain that even if he plays well. We have a back to back against Detroit and Boston on Monday/Tuesday night’s. Play Keith against the Wings and he plays tomorrrow if Cory is still ill.

Edit - Oh, you’re a Flyers fan, that explains that. That’s why you think we should “Mix” our usage of goalie. You also have Brian Elliott as your starter, who sucks terribly as a starting goaltender. As a Devils fan, I think we’re all very happy that he plays more than Neuvirth.

 

[billingtons ghost]

No mixing.

Play Kinkaid like the backup and Cory like the starter, barring a huge drop off in Cory’s play and a huge uptick in Keith’s play.

If we throw him in against the Caps and Cory is healthy, we’re really testing our luck and I’ll maintain that even if he plays well. We have a back to back against Detroit and Boston on Monday/Tuesday night’s. Play Keith against the Wings and he plays tomorrrow if Cory is still ill.

Edit - Oh, you’re a Flyers fan, that explains that. That’s why you think we should “Mix” our usage of goalie.

At the end of the day - this is what everyone should believe. It just makes sense.

That said - I have no problem riding Kinky for a game or two in a row here or there. His hatred is unwarranted. the 11 'stoppable' goals are really more like 6 max. As I've said before, the goalies are the victims here. Kinkaid had what some pointed out as 'bad' games but he really was playing great despite the terrible stats. The goals against were mainly on deflections, cross-slot passes, breakaways and backdoor tap-ins. He had a couple sub-.900 games because the team in front of him played sub-.900 team defense.

Then Cory had his turn with a couple of games that look terrible on paper, but that he really wasn't bad in at all.

When you've given up 5 in consecutive games, I expect a few extra bad goals on top because of frustration and trying to do too much and changing your angles.

The only worry here is if Cory gets off of his game, because angles are so important to his game. That could lead to prolonged struggles.

Cory will be back next time - and if the team plays decent defense in front of him, he'll be back to form.

Team could really use a few practice days in a row - the bye week helped no one.

 

[New Jersey]

i’m just really happy kinkaid looked as good as he did starting last second especially when his past few starts weren’t great.

i wish he got 15 games a season.

cory is still 1a at the least. when the defense plays well in front of him he’s unstoppable.

not sure how this thread got here now.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Ahem.

Never fails.

 

[MartyOwns]

Kinkaid in his career is an average backup.

exactly. i dont think anyone's arguing that. but the pendulum has swung way too far away from that recently (again, look at the reaction after the goal against) and it's because people are making these evaluations with 0 context.

 

[hayen]

Edit - Oh, you’re a Flyers fan, that explains that. That’s why you think we should “Mix” our usage of goalie. You also have Brian Elliott as your starter, who sucks terribly as a starting goaltender. As a Devils fan, I think we’re all very happy that he plays more than Neuvirth.

I am a hockey fan more than anything. Since you dont know me, Id hold off on categorizing. Yes, I am a Keith fan since I've worked at Union College for 30 years and had the opportunity to watch his growth to become the player he is today. I'm not saying mix 50/50 or anything close but if you expect performance then you need to get a player on the ice. Even if against weaker teams to afford Cory some rest.

 

[Darkauron]

Ahem.

Never fails.

Tis true.

 

[Bleedred]

i’m just really happy kinkaid looked as good as he did starting last second especially when his past few starts weren’t great.

i wish he got 15 games a season.

cory is still 1a at the least. when the defense plays well in front of him he’s unstoppable.

not sure how this thread got here now.

It got here because someone who hasn't posted here in 2 weeks, felt the need to get on here today and call me out because Kinkaid had a good game last night and in his last start before last night, as if that negates any poor play this season and makes him turn 180. And as if that's an indication that anything I've said about Kinkaid lately is untrue. I never said there's no chance that he can turn his season around, I said he's played poorly/below average up to this point and that's still true, even after two strong games. Someone felt the need to try and make me eat crow because of two good games. I'm actually surprised Sharks fans weren't doing this the other day when Jones stopped 36 of 37 against the Kings, but most Sharks also seem to be in agreeance that Jones isn't that good, but that doesn't mean he never has good games. It means that he has good games, and in the game before that he allowed 3 goals on 6 shots and got yanked in the 1st period.

It's the same way on the main board with goalies and even GM's. This is why Chayka was a top 3 GM after just a couple months, according to some people.

 

[New Jersey]

it's so impossible to be neutral here

i like our goalie situation in general. many teams would love to have a goalie like kinkaid that they could count on when their starter needs some rest.

again, i'd like to reiterate how well he played on two hours' notice. granted, that's his job, but considering how poor his last few starts were, i was stoked on his game last night.

 

[Bleedred]

it's so impossible to be neutral here

i like our goalie situation in general. many teams would love to have a goalie like kinkaid that they could count on when their starter needs some rest.

again, i'd like to reiterate how well he played on two hours' notice. granted, that's his job, but considering how poor his last few starts were, i was stoked on his game last night.

I feel like this is setting me up to bury him and denigrate him, even though I don't that's what you were personally trying to do, but I think most teams (not all teams) have a backup that is at least as good as Kinkaid.

But if you really want me to say something nice about him, one of those teams doesn't have a backup that's as good as Kinkaid is Arizona, and I have maintained even throughout this year that Wedgewood is probably not a better goaltender than Kinkaid. His numbers are near the bottom of the barrel this year and when I watched him against the Sharks, he looked like a 1980's goalie, that kept flopping, got over-aggressive and just didn't look very good. He seems to suffer from over-athleticism, if anything. He came out to poke check one puck and it ended up turning into a goal against. And Raanta has played above average there, so I don't believe it's as much that Arizona sucks as it is that Wedgewood isn't any good.

And when Wedgewood played in the AHL, he had multiple poor seasons. I keep hearing rumblings (not sure if speculation or what) that Raanta won't be back, but Wedgewood probably will be. It is Arizona and they seem to like to tank every year, so I guess it makes sense that they'd wanna part ways with the better goaltender and keep the inferior one.

 

[Bleedred]

Don't look now, but Vatanen as a Devil is almost scoring as much as Henrique as a Duck.

I'm tempted to lurk the Ducks board, to see what their reaction has been lately.

3 points in his last 15 games, 2 of them were against us.

We should all be glad that at the very least, we won't be paying Henrique a ridiculous contract to play here, starting in 18-19.

And that's even if you don't like Vatanen, which, I don't understand why so many people don't.

 

[glenwo2]

Ah, it's a good morning.

Despite that losing streak, one point ahead of Columbus with three games in hand. Three.

Tomorrow is even bigger. Chance to close the gap to three points behind Washington with two games in hand.

Not holding my breath, though.

(though I'm still hopeful the Law of Averages comes through and the Devils take one)

 

[glenwo2]

Ahem.

Never fails.

about damn time, too.

 

[glenwo2]

I am a hockey fan more than anything. Since you dont know me, Id hold off on categorizing. Yes, I am a Keith fan since I've worked at Union College for 30 years and had the opportunity to watch his growth to become the player he is today. I'm not saying mix 50/50 or anything close but if you expect performance then you need to get a player on the ice. Even if against weaker teams to afford Cory some rest.

So basically, you have a biased opinion on him then.

Hell, if Kinky was my favorite Goaltender in the entire world, I'd be extolling his virtues(to a fault), too.


BTW, have you asked your fellow Flyers fans whether they'd welcome Kinkaid as their Goaltender? Just curious.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Don't look now, but Vatanen as a Devil is almost scoring as much as Henrique as a Duck.

I'm tempted to lurk the Ducks board, to see what their reaction has been lately.

3 points in his last 15 games, 2 of them were against us.

We should all be glad that at the very least, we won't be paying Henrique a ridiculous contract to play here, starting in 18-19.

And that's even if you don't like Vatanen, which, I don't understand why so many people don't.

Hey hey. Shero did say that he likes to bring back his old players.

 

[Bleedred]

Hey hey. Shero did say that he likes to bring back his old players.

I might take him back, if he gets bought out from his next deal.

I don’t think he’s gonna fall off like Clarkson (who wasn’t as good as him) but I just think he won’t be worth his next contract. Maybe he will for a the first year or two.

 

[NJDevils17]

Henrique’s having a terrible stretch and I’ll never understand why this was such a tense subject. It’s obvious how streaky he is, never really understood the argument against that. Very happy with the trade still.

I do think Henrique will be a Devil again before his career is up. Love the guy too.

 

[hayen]

So basically, you have a biased opinion on him then.

Hell, if Kinky was my favorite Goaltender in the entire world, I'd be extolling his virtues(to a fault), too.


BTW, have you asked your fellow Flyers fans whether they'd welcome Kinkaid as their Goaltender? Just curious.

No. I dont really care what they think on the subject. As I said I am a hockey fan before anything else. And for the record I am not the person that Bleedred took issue with. I only made a positive comment about a player and said nothing negative about any other player. Cory is your number one and anyone that debates that is not paying attention. You guys have a great young team and with that comes some break downs but overall you have nothing to make excuses for or reasons to make changes.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Henrique’s having a terrible stretch and I’ll never understand why this was such a tense subject. It’s obvious how streaky he is, never really understood the argument against that. Very happy with the trade still.

I do think Henrique will be a Devil again before his career is up. Love the guy too.

Because he is a passenger and contributes zilch at even strength when he doesn’t produce, just like Stafford. It got tense when people used tbe excuse that ‘its ok if he does nothing for 10-15 games because he will hit his averages, and we know what he is’. Good teams do not have many of these type of forwards.

Hall Nico Zacha Bratt Johansson still push play forward when they are not producing.

Boyle Zajac Gibbons can give us strong defensive play when they are not producing.

Palmieri Wood Noesen Coleman still give us energy when they are not producing.

Shero made a great trade to get a solid LHD for him.

 

[Bleedred]

So basically, you have a biased opinion on him then.

Hell, if Kinky was my favorite Goaltender in the entire world, I'd be extolling his virtues(to a fault), too.


BTW, have you asked your fellow Flyers fans whether they'd welcome Kinkaid as their Goaltender? Just curious.

The Flyers are the same team that tossed Steve Mason in the trash after one mediocre season (at least only one mediocre season as a Flyer), then signed a goaltender that (without Hitchcock) isn't any better than Mason was last year.

Elliott is a joke goaltender, as anything more than a backup.

Unless Hitchcock is coaching. It's like buying some junkmobile from your local junkyard. It can be reliable, as long as it comes with a tow truck! And Hitch is the two truck! He gave up two shit goals last night too. Guy is a roach. I'd say he's bottom 2-3 as far as starters go? Cam Ward wins that one. They probably should have played Neuvirth at least more than they have already. Not necessarily more than Elliott, but I don't see him as any worse than non-Hitchcok version Elliott.

 

[NJDevs26]

i’m just really happy kinkaid looked as good as he did starting last second especially when his past few starts weren’t great.

i wish he got 15 games a season.

cory is still 1a at the least. when the defense plays well in front of him he’s unstoppable.

not sure how this thread got here now.

Meaning you wish he got fewer games? He's started 20 games and 23 games the prior two seasons and is on pace for about 20 this year (has 10 starts)

 

[Bleedred]

Meaning you wish he got fewer games? He's started 20 games and 23 games the prior two seasons and is on pace for about 20 this year (has 10 starts)

I still think we're really pushing our luck if we start him tomorrow and Cory is not ill.

Let him play against the Red Wings.

Even if he plays well, I'll be glad, but I'll think it's a gamble. It's pretty much a coin flip. Last year I was alright with Hynes giving Kinkaid two starts in a row while Cory was healthy, because Cory was playing poorly, Kinkaid was playing well and the season was already a throwaway.

 

[hayen]

BTW, have you asked your fellow Flyers fans whether they'd welcome Kinkaid as their Goaltender? Just curious.

No Kinkaid was not thought of as a #1 but if we had a true #1 I would take him as a #2.