I'm hoping he can become something similar to Christian Ehrhoff... at the end of the day.
At the end of the day, Ehrhoff used to be a very fine defenceman and it would be hard to complain if Cholo became that effective of a player.
I'm hoping he can become something similar to Christian Ehrhoff... at the end of the day.
At the end of the day, Ehrhoff used to be a very fine defenceman and it would be hard to complain if Cholo became that effective of a player.
Yeah, I didn't word that very well, but that would be my optimistic outcome for him. I think they have some similarities.
I'm with Henkka. Cholowski has the vision and IQ to be a norris calibur defensemen.
There is nothing about Cholowski that reminds me of a young Mike Green. I would say Ehrhoff is a lot closer to Cholowski's floor than his ceiling.
Ehrhoff had a pretty quick decline, but he was a pretty good NHL D-man. I think Cholowski could max out higher, but that comparison isn't bad.
I'm with Henkka. Cholowski has the vision and IQ to be a norris calibur defensemen.
There is nothing about Cholowski that reminds me of a young Mike Green. I would say Ehrhoff is a lot closer to Cholowski's floor than his ceiling.
And sorry for being the negative nancy here, but don't really see what he's done to date that suggests that is a likely outcome.
What about Cholowski leads you to believe he has a higher ceiling than what Ehrhoff was?
Ehrhoff was a 50 pt, #1 minute guy at his peak.
Being a Norris caliber defenseman has less to do with hockey IQ nowadays, and really everything to do with pts. So to say he would could be a Norris caliber defenseman, with how it's assesed today, you'd basically have to think he can be a top 3 or top 5 pt producer at the defenseman position.
And sorry for being the negative nancy here, but don't really see what he's done to date that suggests that is a likely outcome.
Forget the norris, I think it's simpler to just say that some would think Cholowski has the potential to be one of the best players in the league.
It's because there is nothing to support it. Some positive write-ups by online scouts that literally every other prospect gets are being spun into a narrative that the Wings defensive pipeline is actually doing great and passing on a current NHL defender was the right move.
Citation needed.
You know, if he's just a top 4 NHL defender that's a success at that draft position. Why do we need to promote him to top 3 player in the world to feel validated?
What makes you so sure the criteria that will be defining Norris winners in 2030 is the same as it is now? Forget the norris, I think it's simpler to just say that some would think Cholowski has the potential to be one of the best players in the league. (I will say, that if your IQ is such that you're getting put out there 25-30 mins a night, yer gonna rack up some pts)
Ehrhoffs peak was 2 years, so that's not a very lofty ceiling. To me, if nothing special happens with Cholowski, you should at least get a bunch of years of 20-30 pts from the second pairing, and he should hit 40-50 at his ufapeak like Ehrhoff. And again, I'm only supporting the idea of super lofty hopes/expectations for Cholowski, I think the Ehrhoff comp is a great starting point.
So as far as ceilings go, I would say Ehrhoff was a great complimentary piece. He has good skills, can keep up with the pace of play and contribute, and eventually gained enough experience to be a reliable part of a teams core.
What I see in Cholowski is the ability to control the pace of play, and an ability to be actively engaged in the fate of his 5 man unit. Those kind of traits could potentially fast track Cholowski to a developmental plane that Ehrhoff never reached.
Obviously in reality, Cholowski's floor is Jesse Wallin or whatever, so for sure if he develops into an Ehrhoff level player, that's already a win. But I think realistic expectations for Cholowski, if he becomes an NHL regular, are already in the Ehrhoff range, and beyond that I'm looking for 92-98 Lidstrom from Cholowski after a year or two of acclimation.
Nothing wrong with being realistic or negative, but also nothing wrong with going out on a limb when you see a player that stands out above the rest to you.
Ehrhoffs peak was 2 years, so that's not a very lofty ceiling. To me, if nothing special happens with Cholowski, you should at least get a bunch of years of 20-30 pts from the second pairing, and he should hit 40-50 at his ufapeak like Ehrhoff. And again, I'm only supporting the idea of super lofty hopes/expectations for Cholowski, I think the Ehrhoff comp is a great starting point.
I am the citation.
How many more times should I have qualified my optimism in my post for it to be clear that I agree that being a top 4 NHL defender would be a success for anyone?
One of the best players in the league? Wow... maybe a little homerism going on here?
I mean if he had this otherworldly hockey IQ why's he on the outside looking in for team Canada, and why wasn't he featured on the PP for SCSU instead of Jack Ahcan?
One of the best players in the league? Wow... maybe a little homerism going on here?
I mean if he had this otherworldly hockey IQ why's he on the outside looking in for team Canada, and why wasn't he featured on the PP for SCSU instead of Jack Ahcan?
I feel like you're selling Ehrhoff a bit short here
over a 5 year period across 3 different teams he put up 190 points in 349 games(45 point pace) and averaged something like 23 minutes of ice-time a night
One of the best players in the league? Wow... maybe a little homerism going on here?
I mean if he had this otherworldly hockey IQ why's he on the outside looking in for team Canada, and why wasn't he featured on the PP for SCSU instead of Jack Ahcan?
Honestly as a USA Hockey fan, I hope he stays on the outside of Team Canada, he is better than some of the players I saw at the Summer showcase that are about to make that team.
A big first half in the WHL will probably mute that, but I don't see why he isn't in the running there. Canada just got destroyed defensively by the USA twice in the summer, some of the same group lost twice last year. If I was them I would be looking pretty hard at some of those D-man and wondering if what I am bringing is enough to win gold because they haven't looked very good as a group repetitively for some of those guys.
I don't disagree, but as I said, if he had realistic potential at being one of the best players in the game, then he is a no-brainer selection for Team Canada. Not a guy who might grab the last spot.
Keith, Chara and Giordano are defensemen that have been amongst the best players in the league at one point or another, and they didn't make the cut as teenagers.
I get it.
But we're talking about the difference of something being possible and something being probable.
I'm going to stick with my more conservative projection until I see reason to up the ante. Pacing with the guys I mentioned above is a good start.
Agreed. Just throwing my 2 cents out, so others can have fun wondering if/when they want to up the ante as they watch Cholowski progress.
Maybe I am. My recollection was that he consistently put up points from the 2nd pairing, and eventually developed into a player that a bunch of teams without a number 1 clamored for when he peaked, and it worked out alright for VAN for a couple years.
I'm thinking Cholowski can be a number 1 from ages 25-35, where I was thinking Ehrhoffs window as a number 1 was more like 29-31 or 28-32 .