Seravalli: Deal on the table for the Kraken to take Tarasenko, flip him to PHI?

[Sasso09]

...$8.25 Mill for 3 more seasons for a 2nd liner...why is this such a deal for Philly fans here??...there's no slight intended, it's just a fact that he's way overpaid for what he brings at this stage of his career and it's for 3 more years...Tarasenko is far more of a risk/reward situation than Voracek would be...hence why Tarasenko has far more value, imo...

Where you're going wrong is your assessment of Voracek being a 2nd liner, he's very firmly a 1st liner, he's been a top 10 RW for a long time, top 15 at the very very worst, firmly a 1st line player

 

[Sasso09]

...OK, so here are the numbers, then:

Vladimir Tarasenko - 0.83 PPG (career), will be 31 years old in the last year of his $7.5 mill deal

Jacob Voracek - 0.76 PPG (career), will be 34 years old in the last year of his $8.25 mill deal

...like I said, Tarasenko is a huge risk/huge reward guy that is just ending his Prime years when his deal is up...Voracek is already exiting his Prime (32 next month) and makes $750 grand more than Tarasenko does now until he's damn near 35...I think the honesty of my evaluation is your issue, not the evaluation itself...

Doing career stats is super disingenuous with Voracek starting out in CBJ and getting far less opportunities offensively than Tank did as a rookie. Do last year, last two, last 3, last 5 even. Jake will look good next to Tank in those comparisons.

 

[Sasso09]

...not according to NHL.com...Voracek is 0.76 PPG...

Can you not read him saying "last 3 years"? Which is far more relevant than career?

 

[biturbo19]

It'd have to be a significant price from Philly, for that to make sense to me. Frankly, if i were Seattle and planning to build a roster to actually compete right from the hop like Vegas...i'd be penciling in both of Tarasenko and Voracek as my 1 and 2 RWs. That's two high quality wingers who can produce and more or less anchor a line. Albeit aging and on somewhat unwieldy contracts.

If Philly were to really sweeten the pot, and you're still ending up with Voracek, that's cool i guess. I'm just not sure what that'd be, to make it worthwhile. That 1st round pick seems steep, but at the same time...not having Tarasenko and Voracek both, makes Seattle a much weaker team to start with.

 

[ninetyeight]

Voracek is overpaid but definitely not negative value. If seattle deals him away with 50% retained (4.12m aav or so) all of a sudden he has lots of value.

I'm guessing Seattle won't be much above the min-cap, so why not trade 1-3 good players with bad contracts and flip them somewhere salary retained. As long as the owners are on board.

 

[Tripod]

...not according to NHL.com...Voracek is 0.76 PPG...

I clearly said last 3 years.

Using career PPG is just useless info. What someone did 10 years ago means nothing. What they have done recently is much more relevant.

Reality is, right now with Voracek you are getting a consistently healthy 65+ point pass first winger. With Tank, you are getting a goal scorer with question marks on his shoulder.

 

[Celtic Note]

So are the Blues just going to lose a key player every year now since they won the cup?

If Schwartz doesn’t re-sign, it could be two.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I still don't get it...do Philly fans really want to swap Voracek for Tarasenko? Is just because of age and contract, because I don't think their production will be that different.

 

[Prongo]

I still don't get it...do Philly fans really want to swap Voracek for Tarasenko? Is just because of age and contract, because I don't think their production will be that different.

I think it’s more so the type of player. Tarasenko is a goal scorer while Voracek is a play making RWer. Also, whether fans want to hear it or not, seems like Voracek and the flyers are both in agreement that a move would be beneficial.

Flyers are also trying to create flexibility now and in the future for expiring contracts that are pending like Giroux and Couts.

 

[Blaine8797]

I will say one thing in that Fletcher is the guy if youre going all-in

id jsut be terrified as a Philly fan on what hes giving up

He just stole Ryan Ellis so I mean his trades are looking quite alright this season so far eh

 

[Blaine8797]

I still don't get it...do Philly fans really want to swap Voracek for Tarasenko? Is just because of age and contract, because I don't think their production will be that different.

It’s because we have to many passers and not enough people to pull the trigger, we lack a real sniper as of now, farabee and allison are starting to look like guys that can eventually fill that role but not on tarasenko’ level

 

[Vektor]

So are the Blues just going to lose a key player every year now since they won the cup?

Shit happens. Tarasenko is washed and the Blues can use his cap space to improve.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I still don't get it...do Philly fans really want to swap Voracek for Tarasenko? Is just because of age and contract, because I don't think their production will be that different.

Flyers offense/PP has grown stale. Its been the same for years now and teams know what to expect. Tarasenko would give both a new look and other teams something new to worry about.

In this scenario, blues gain valuable cap, flyers get their shake up, and seattle gets a familiar face for Hakstol plus an additional pick. Seems like a reasonable deal.

 

[Blaine8797]

It is nearly impossible to trade big contracts for futures in a flat cap without major retention, as you are finding out with JVR and Voracek right now.

There are way more sellers of good players with over-priced deals than buyers right now. Supply and demand sets the value, and with a flat cap and no one having excess cap space, it is a total buyers market. Good players on slightly overpriced deals cost assets to unload.

It is nuts, and doesn't even seem possible, but it is the current state of the NHL.

Duncan Keith just got traded for positive assets I actually am starting to think you just make assumptions and don’t actually look at what’s going on in the league

 

[Bruckuss]

SEA selects Tank
SEA selects Hagg

PHI trades Voracek + a conditional first (# of games played), or a second to SEA for Tank. (Is that possible?)

The pick is the incentive to select Hagg.

Tank off the books in STL.
Philly gets a seemingly needed shakeup/finisher.
SEA gets the safe bet 1st liner, a bottom pair guy Hak likes, and a pick as sweetener.

I think I'm good with that as a flyers fan, especially if it can be a conditional pick.

Worst case, Tank is busted and we've lost Jake and a pick.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

...it would take more than Voracek and a 2021 1st...Voracek has soo much negative value that it would be MUCH more...

Yea, because 60 point players have soooo much negative value in the NHL.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

1st and Voracek seems....light.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I think it’s more so the type of player. Tarasenko is a goal scorer while Voracek is a play making RWer. Also, whether fans want to hear it or not, seems like Voracek and the flyers are both in agreement that a move would be beneficial.

Flyers are also trying to create flexibility now and in the future for expiring contracts that are pending like Giroux and Couts.

It’s because we have to many passers and not enough people to pull the trigger, we lack a real sniper as of now, farabee and allison are starting to look like guys that can eventually fill that role but not on tarasenko’ level

Flyers offense/PP has grown stale. Its been the same for years now and teams know what to expect. Tarasenko would give both a new look and other teams something new to worry about.

In this scenario, blues gain valuable cap, flyers get their shake up, and seattle gets a familiar face for Hakstol plus an additional pick. Seems like a reasonable deal.

Yeah that all makes sense. Nothing to really debate. Just would be worried about Tarasenko's shoulder like the rest of the league, but if it's fixed... might be a good move. Don't want to see Tarasenko in the same division, but it would be fun to get to see him play some more.

 

[Tripod]

This is what you call being leveraged.

Voracek has been better and WAY healthier than Tank the last 2 years. Yet it is looking like the Flyers are going to PAY to swap Jake out for Tank because is willing to PAY to be different...not necessarily better. Big risk for the Flyers and if Fletch gives up a 1st, he overpaid for all that risk.

We will know soon.

 

[Nico Hughes]

He just stole Ryan Ellis so I mean his trades are looking quite alright this season so far eh

I like Ellis but he may have been propped by Ekholm

we shall find out

 

[FlyguyOX]

SEA selects Tank
SEA selects Hagg

PHI trades Voracek + a conditional first (# of games played), or a second to SEA for Tank. (Is that possible?)

The pick is the incentive to select Hagg.

Tank off the books in STL.
Philly gets a seemingly needed shakeup/finisher.
SEA gets the safe bet 1st liner, a bottom pair guy Hak likes, and a pick as sweetener.

I think I'm good with that as a flyers fan, especially if it can be a conditional pick.

Worst case, Tank is busted and we've lost Jake and a pick.

Worst case losing a 1st line winger and a 1st for nothing is pretty bad

 

[PromisedLand]

tarasenko basically replaces JVR. minor improvement but depends on good tank's feeling

 

[Ciao]

Voracek is overpaid but definitely not negative value. If seattle deals him away with 50% retained (4.12m aav or so) all of a sudden he has lots of value.

I'm guessing Seattle won't be much above the min-cap, so why not trade 1-3 good players with bad contracts and flip them somewhere salary retained. As long as the owners are on board.

There are a lot of big-ticket contracts available, and I think Ron Francis will be a very stingy buyer with respect to cap space.

I don't think he will take even a single contract that is not movable and good value from a salary-cap perspective.

I am less certain of this, but I seriously doubt that he does much, if any, cap retention in any side deals. The consideration would have to be overwhelming.

Francis knows how valuable cap space is for the foreseeable future. Keeping an ample supply is an important outcome of the expansion draft. It would help them build the franchise once the draft is over.

 

[Captain97]

Voracek had 8 PP points this year. Put him on Seattle where he would run the PP and he's easily hitting 70+ points. His even strength scoring is still around where it was when he hit 85 a few years ago, but he's no longer used as a go to guy on the PP anymore. That's mostly because Michel Therrien is an idiot.

As a Flyers fan, I'm somewhat excited about the prospect of getting Tarasenko, but I'd be absolutely shocked if he's even within 15 points of Voracek next year if Voracek ends up on Seattle. Flyers should try as hard as possible to make it JVR leaving instead of Voracek if salary and term are the most important issues for making a trade right now, but JVR is obviously half the player that Voracek is.

Having said all that, I'm not exactly sure how the rumored deal makes sense for the Kraken.

Wait Michel Therrien (MT aka empty) is running the flyers powerplay?

I now understand how yall did bad with a good roster on paper. My condolences to all your skilled and young players who don't grind.

 

[Bruckuss]

Worst case losing a 1st line winger and a 1st for nothing is pretty bad

That's the idea with the 1st being conditional on x games played.. if he plays, you'd think he will produce. If not, the pick is downgraded.

We very well might lose Jake for nothing, the pick is the sweetener to reunite Hagg with Hak.

They can take a good player for nothing, or perhaps we can turn this into something beneficial for both sides?