Value of: David Savard to the Leafs..

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Leafs D are set and ready for a championship run. Even if they don't win they cup, they are obviously winning two rounds at least. I wouldn't bother with Saved.

Teams are never set, you can always get better

 

[Randy Randerson]

Agreed I think the Staal trade is proof of that, in a normal year he gets a 2nd for sure, maybe even a little bit more but this year he gets a 3rd + 5th

There's always a push and pull between supply and demand that determines what things are worth for sure, this year just happens to have a significant inhibitor to the demand side with the cap issues. It should be really obvious how much effect this has over the next couple of weeks, and even more so in free agency imo.

 

[Dache]

Assuming it's one year retention (either expiring players being retained or expiring players being taken back), I think it has more to do with how many teams are on either side of the buy/sell line. There's no inherent or intrinsic value for anything, so in a year where there's not many buyers and a GM can get a 2nd rounder for a guy that they would have gotten a 1st+ 2 years ago, and the GM is facing losing that guy for nothing instead, then I think you'll see a bunch of guys go for a lot less than they would have in years past.

The buyer/seller ratio while true, is not what that poster was talking about. He was talking about teams that even though may be buyers, do not have the free cap space they would like. And it it being difficult to open up cap space this year. Thus making it valuable to retain salary

 

[Dache]

Or the fact there are very few teams means Columbus doesn't get the bidding war they want

Not typically the case once one team starts adding, then others feel the need to keep pace

 

[Funk21]

So you don't want to get better

Not at the cost most suggesting it will cost no.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The buyer/seller ratio while true, is not what that poster was talking about. He was talking about teams that even though may be buyers, do not have the free cap space they would like. And it it being difficult to open up cap space this year. Thus making it valuable to retain salary

I agree with that part, it will definitely open up trades that aren't otherwise available

 

[Adam da bomb]

If the price for savard is a 2nd the jets would do that.

 

[Vinman88]

If the price for savard is a 2nd the jets would do that.

He will be a Panther soon.

 

[FerrisRox]

They can ask all they want but there are about 5 teams that can actual spend money the buyers market is not a big one in a covid season.

How are there only five teams that can spend money?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

How are there only five teams that can spend money?

Nobody is making money, fan capacity is EXTREMELY limited and in a lot of case there are fans, which doesn't just mean limited or no ticket sales but it also means limited or no beer, food, jerseys, soda etc. being sold.

There are certain teams that can still spend the cash because they have an endless supply of money but most don't

 

[Boondock]

There aren’t many players of Savard’s ability that are going to be available. With the recent pick up in play by the Preds, Ekholm and/or Ellis are probably off the table - since both are signed beyond this season the Preds can keep them both and potentially look to make deals next year if they need a rebuild. Goligoski is that top 4 type Dman and I could see him moved, but that’s only 2 legit top 4 guys available for the 16-20 teams looking to make a push in the playoffs. There is potentially other guys that could be made available- Edler has said he would consider a move to a cup favourite, Murray in NJ could be a sneaky good defensive pick up but me typing his name may have put him on the IR so there’s obvious risk. Nemeth and Montour are a couple other guys that could be traded but do they improve teams? So if there are several teams (Florida, Winnipeg, Carolina, Toronto, Boston, off the top of my head) that would like to improve their blue line but there’s only 2-3 players that actual accomplish that, there could be some teams that “over pay”. So I agree league economics will greatly impact trade values, but I wonder if those highly sought after players will still demand high returns at the deadline

 

[McLeafy]

I think your point proves his. The fact that very few teams have money means the offers will need to go up a bit to account for retention

No, teams are doing retention as a given to facilitate trades or to allow more teams to bid on their players.

Not retaining could severely limit a teams market for selling their rentals. Not exactly a stellar negotiation tactic if I'm trying to get the best return possible and team x knows theres no one else bidding my on player.

As for Savard, if he's cheap enough sure. Certainly not paying a 1st for him

 

[Dache]

No, teams are doing retention as a given to facilitate trades or to allow more teams to bid on their players.

Not retaining could severely limit a teams market for selling their rentals. Not exactly a stellar negotiation tactic if I'm trying to get the best return possible and team x knows theres no one else bidding my on player.

As for Savard, if he's cheap enough sure. Certainly not paying a 1st for him

In your post you just said retaining allows more teams to bid, how does that not increase the price?

 

[McLeafy]

In your post you just said retaining allows more teams to bid, how does that not increase the price?

I replied to the notion that simply retaining increases the price.

For instance if team A didn't require retention the asking price is cheaper for them compared to team B and C who require retention.
The notion that simply retaining means you get more value isn't true, retaining is practically a given just to facilitate trades given the current circumstances.
Not to say it isn't impossible, there's always questionable trades each year

Just look at the staal trade

 

[Dache]

I replied to the notion that simply retaining increases the price.

For instance if team A didn't require retention the asking price is cheaper for them compared to team B and C who require retention.
The notion that simply retaining means you get more value isn't true, retaining is practically a given just to facilitate trades given the current circumstances.

Just look at the staal trade

Looking at one singular trade proves nothing. If the deal is a bad contract then yes it does minimal, other wise retain does increase value. That’s pretty basic.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The more the Leafs keep winning the more I want them to land Savard

 

[Jerkbait]

Teams are never set, you can always get better

While that is tru me dont expect these leafs to add to the D core unless its a minor piece. With 2 glaring needs at forward and in goal there will be addressed first..dubas will make a move, he knows it. The fan base knows it

 

[FerrisRox]

Nobody is making money, fan capacity is EXTREMELY limited and in a lot of case there are fans, which doesn't just mean limited or no ticket sales but it also means limited or no beer, food, jerseys, soda etc. being sold.

There are certain teams that can still spend the cash because they have an endless supply of money but most don't

Not really. No team is just suddenly adding a bunch of payroll. They would be sending money back in any deal that was made. How much money do you think Toronto can take on under the cap? This isn't a case of a team being able to flex it's financial power.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not really. No team is just suddenly adding a bunch of payroll. They would be sending money back in any deal that was made. How much money do you think Toronto can take on under the cap? This isn't a case of a team being able to flex it's financial power.

You are talking about cap space, I'm talking about money there is a difference

 

[FerrisRox]

You are talking about cap space, I'm talking about money there is a difference

Okay, but you're talking about a trade and there is no scenario where the Leafs make a trade and don't have to send back essentially the same contract value back to the team they are trading with, so why are you talking about money? It has nothing to do with this scenario.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Okay, but you're talking about a trade and there is no scenario where the Leafs make a trade and don't have to send back essentially the same contract value back to the team they are trading with, so why are you talking about money? It has nothing to do with this scenario.

Why? What is his current cap hit? 1.3? I think the Leafs could find the extra by waving a player or waiting to the Leafs accumulate more cap and savards cap is paid out.

 

[FerrisRox]

Why? What is his current cap hit? 1.3? I think the Leafs could find the extra by waving a player or waiting to the Leafs accumulate more cap and savards cap is paid out.

You realize the scenario you have just presented is exactly what I'm talking about, right?

The Leafs would clear some cap space by waiving someone and end up with pretty much the exact same cap hit they have now, therefore their financial might has nothing to do with this proposed acquisition, which is exactly the point I made in the first place.

 

[seanlinden]

Why? What is his current cap hit? 1.3? I think the Leafs could find the extra by waving a player or waiting to the Leafs accumulate more cap and savards cap is paid out.

I'm not sure what the actual percentage of cap hits remaining for the season are.... however if Savard's "current" cap hit is $1.3m (30% remaining)... then anyone being waived / traded only saves 30% of their "full season cap hit".

The Leafs are right up against the cap with nobody on LTIR. Practically speaking, any dollars in (from a cap perspective) has to equal dollars out.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm not sure what the actual percentage of cap hits remaining for the season are.... however if Savard's "current" cap hit is $1.3m (30% remaining)... then anyone being waived / traded only saves 30% of their "full season cap hit".

The Leafs are right up against the cap with nobody on LTIR. Practically speaking, any dollars in (from a cap perspective) has to equal dollars out.

According to cap friendly they are currently projected to have just over 1 million dollars in cap space on deadline day that's a very healthy amount at that point in the season, you can do a lot with that

 

[domi28]

According to cap friendly they are currently projected to have just over 1 million dollars in cap space on deadline day that's a very healthy amount at that point in the season, you can do a lot with that

Unless I completely misunderstand the formula CapFriendly uses deadline cap space is the amount of season cap hits the teams can take on. So if they have $1m available they're about $3.25m short on available space for being able to trade for Savard and his $4.25m cap hit. This is why Kerfoot keeps coming up in proposals. It's not because Dubas would want to trade him, it's because Kerfoot is the only forward with enough cap hit to get the Leafs close enough in $$$ going out to add a $4-5m cap hit rental.