Confirmed with Link: Dave Cameron Fired (along with Tourigny, Wamsley) (starts at post 208)

[Vesa Awesaka]

Julien - head coach
Richardson - assistant coach, work with D
Charbonneau - assistant coach, work with forwards

richardson is terrible. guy is part of the reason the sens cant play defense and bingo is consistently the one of the worst defensive teams in the ahl

 

[ChelFan31]

The thing that I worry about isn't the 3M-5M that their going need to pay Julien...

Its that Melynk specifically said its money in money out ...that 'we'll need to eliminate 5M player if we were to spend 4.5M-5M on a coach....

Itll be interesting to see where the aggregate sum of spending on players salaries settles in comparaison to how much we spend on a coach...I just hope he doesn't take cannibalize the on ice product

 

[ChelFan31]

I think its possible we say Hoffman played his last game as a Sens and PD will trade him in the offseason for "Futures" ....Melnyk wont want to pay him

 

[Zorf]

Keep in mind that Eugene's comments on spending on a coach were in response to Ian Mendes asking if he would spend $5M. Now just about any owner in the league outside of the morons in Toronto would likely not be too happy to spend that much.

If Ian asked if he would spend around $3M, which is a pretty damn reasonable number for any coach, I think the response would have been very different.

And in a way, I agree with what Eugene said when he's not convinced that a $5M coach is that much better than a less expensive guy. Those were exactly my commemts about Babcock's stupid salary when he was hired. I questioned whether or not he really brought $3M worth of an advantage over any other coach, and no one was able to say that he did.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

The thing that I worry about isn't the 3M-5M that their going need to pay Julien...

Its that Melynk specifically said its money in money out ...that 'we'll need to eliminate 5M player if we were to spend 4.5M-5M on a coach....

Itll be interesting to see where the aggregate sum of spending on players salaries settles in comparaison to how much we spend on a coach...I just hope he doesn't take cannibalize the on ice product

Do you have a source for this?

 

[ChelFan31]

Do you have a source for this?

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/melnyk-reacts-to-dave-cameron-firing-1.470652


Skip to 8:08

 

[jason2020]

I think its possible we say Hoffman played his last game as a Sens and PD will trade him in the offseason for "Futures" ....Melnyk wont want to pay him

I think it was the coaching more then the money I could see him resigned him with in the week.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

He may ask for that but it's looking like we may be the only team looking for a new coach.

That means we have more leverage.

Yeah, it's always supply and demand.

But, to Julien's advantage, he knows that the demand for NHL coaches is a constant. That is, even if there's only one coaching spot available this summer (Ottawa), if he doesn't get the deal he wants then he can just sit tight and wait for the inevitable firing(s) that happen this November from the teams that get off to poor starts.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/melnyk-reacts-to-dave-cameron-firing-1.470652


Skip to 8:08

Thanks. Sure hope Julien doesn't command that much, but that line of thinking... hmm. If he's saying the "magic moment" he's talking about can happen without good personnel, that's very concerning.

 

[BonkTastic]

Do you have a source for this?

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/melnyk-reacts-to-dave-cameron-firing-1.470652


Skip to 8:08

Transcript verbatim of the interview:
(courtesy of u/FixedTheNewelPost on r/OttawaSenators, I bolded the part about a coach "costing a player", in theory)

Mendes: If Coach X, the best coach available, and Pierre Dorion has said this is the best guy, is going to cost 4.5-5million dollars, is that going to be the impediment or hurdle him becoming the head coach of the Ottawa Senators?

Melnyk: Does he walk on water? I mean... 5 million bucks, look I know sometimes the market gets silly, I've seen it in horses I've seen it in hockey players, things change somehow someway. You're only good - I know there's history with these coaches and GMs, and proven track records to a certain point, but, y'know take a look at whose been winning Stanley Cups in the past 10-15 years. You don't really see dynasties like you used to, you don't see the dominance of the management over the players. You don't really see one or two maybe players dominate the whole way, its really a team effort. And I think its a team effort on the coaching or management side, on the hockey ops. So to put that kind of money out for one single person, thats tough for even the management point of view. You wouldn't do that to an executive so why go crazy with the business of hockey. I dont think it could make that much of a difference, I really dont, if I thought it did, so what do you do, do you trade out a 5 million dollar player? you want to do that? So I tell you... a 5 million dollar player isn't one without a good coach, I get that, but you don't want to go crazy in your ability to spend later.
There is going to be a magic moment, let me tell you this, where we'll have to step up and do something, it'll almost be silly, but you're right on the brink of having a Stanley Cup team, thats when you whack 'em. Thats when you just go nuts and say I'll roll the dice, putting all in, I'm all in. I'm all in all the way, and if you have to, you have to, but, not that kind - I don't think you have to spend that. I honestly don't. But we'll do it when we can.

 

[Micklebot]

Keep in mind that Eugene's comments on spending on a coach were in response to Ian Mendes asking if he would spend $5M. Now just about any owner in the league outside of the morons in Toronto would likely not be too happy to spend that much.

If Ian asked if he would spend around $3M, which is a pretty damn reasonable number for any coach, I think the response would have been very different.

And in a way, I agree with what Eugene said when he's not convinced that a $5M coach is that much better than a less expensive guy. Those were exactly my commemts about Babcock's stupid salary when he was hired. I questioned whether or not he really brought $3M worth of an advantage over any other coach, and no one was able to say that he did.

I agree that Babcock (and Coach Q starting in 2017) don't bring 3-4 mil more value than guys like Boudreau, or Trotz who signed in the 2-3 mil range. That said, Babcock's salary was more about him trying to push salaries up for all coaches, feeling that as a group they were undervalued.

So, for example, do you feel that Babcock or Coach Q brings more value to a team than say Patrick Sharp or Mike Green who commands a similar salary?

On the topic of our future coach, in doing a little digging, it seems that Ottawa has been after Julien for quite a while now.

They initially were interested in him back in 2007 when the NJD fired him, but Boston scooped him up before we could (damn you Chiarelli, first it's our Norris caliber Dman in Chara, then our top coaching candidate). Following that up, we were hoping he'd get canned in 2011, and held off our search until things settled after the playoffs.

The Senators decided to wait because they wanted to see how the playoffs shook down. There was a belief if a few teams took early exits, there could have been good coaches available.

Vancouver’s Alain Vigneault, Boston’s Claude Julien, San Jose’s Todd McLellan and Washington’s Bruce Boudreau were all feeling heat. Of that group, Boudreau felt a little heat after being eliminated in Round 2, but was retained.

McLellan was able to get to the Western Conference final, while Vigneault and Julien are battling it out in the Stanley Cup final. Any of that trio would have been attractive to Murray and he owed it to himself to wait.

The top choice likely would have been Julien. The Senators tried to get him in 2007 before they hired John Paddock, but Julien— who had been fired by the Devils — had already agreed to a contract with the Bruins.
link

 

[Micklebot]

Transcript verbatim of the interview:
(courtesy of u/FixedTheNewelPost on r/OttawaSenators, I bolded the part about a coach "costing a player", in theory)

Mendes: If Coach X, the best coach available, and Pierre Dorion has said this is the best guy, is going to cost 4.5-5million dollars, is that going to be the impediment or hurdle him becoming the head coach of the Ottawa Senators?

Melnyk: Does he walk on water? I mean... 5 million bucks, look I know sometimes the market gets silly, I've seen it in horses I've seen it in hockey players, things change somehow someway. You're only good - I know there's history with these coaches and GMs, and proven track records to a certain point, but, y'know take a look at whose been winning Stanley Cups in the past 10-15 years. You don't really see dynasties like you used to, you don't see the dominance of the management over the players. You don't really see one or two maybe players dominate the whole way, its really a team effort. And I think its a team effort on the coaching or management side, on the hockey ops. So to put that kind of money out for one single person, thats tough for even the management point of view. You wouldn't do that to an executive so why go crazy with the business of hockey. I dont think it could make that much of a difference, I really dont, if I thought it did, so what do you do, do you trade out a 5 million dollar player? you want to do that? So I tell you... a 5 million dollar player isn't one without a good coach, I get that, but you don't want to go crazy in your ability to spend later.
There is going to be a magic moment, let me tell you this, where we'll have to step up and do something, it'll almost be silly, but you're right on the brink of having a Stanley Cup team, thats when you whack 'em. Thats when you just go nuts and say I'll roll the dice, putting all in, I'm all in. I'm all in all the way, and if you have to, you have to, but, not that kind - I don't think you have to spend that. I honestly don't. But we'll do it when we can.

That doesn't sound nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. He's not saying we'd have to trade out a player to afford a coach of that cost, but rather trying to tie in the value a coach brings by using a player at a similar value, as everyone can relate to the impact a 5 mil player has to a team. If you answer no, I wouldn't trade out a player of 5 mil to land a coach at 5 mil, then you probably don't think a coach is worth 5 mil. That's his point, or at least that's how I interpreted it.

 

[Sens]

Then we would be looking for two top 6 forwards.

I'm sure I'd be able to find 50Pts to replace Ryan after signing Julien

 

[Alex1234]

Chiasson and Boro salary together there is a 2,2 millions$ right there


I think we can get to the playoffs without Boro's 2 points and Chiasson's 16pts lol with Macarthur and Turris healthy and a new coach and Phaneuf all year and a slim zib

Melnyk was willing to give DC 800 000$ so there is a 3millions$ right there


Welcome back to your roots Clode

 

[Sens]

Or nor give QO to Wiercioch and use that money for coach

 

[ChelFan31]

Or nor give QO to Wiercioch and use that money for coach

Yeah but then you cant have your GM cant come out like he did yesterday and say their will be additional financial resources from the owner to find the best coach for the team.....

Its not additional financial resources... its simply reallocation of already exhisting resources

The amount of disconnect between ownership and GM message is unlike any other within this league and that's whats scary... #Ballard 2.0

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

You can spin it any which way you like positive or negative... but Claude Julien isn't coming here unless they pay him market value + a good premium ...

He gets paid if he's working or if he's been fired. Guaranteed money. No risk premium required.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think trading for Phaneuf was management telling Cameron to make the playoffs

Like being told "Here's your top 4 defenseman now go win"

Team never took off even with the addition and now Cameron is on the hotseat

100%

I believe it was "if we have my PEI boy Dion, we will make the Playoffs for sure, Bryan!"

 

[Micklebot]

richardson is terrible. guy is part of the reason the sens cant play defense and bingo is consistently the one of the worst defensive teams in the ahl

4th lowest goals against in the league his first year, but that team had Gryba, Wiercioch, and Benoit not to mention Wideman, Claesson, and Boro. Up front it also included Pageau (he played less the next year) and Silf (was traded).

The team took a big hit in defensive depth, and the results plummeted. Not sure how much is his system, and how much is the horses he has to deploy.

One thing that does speak well of Richardson is how ready callups always have been during his tenure.

 

[Caeldan]

This thread's run its course.