OT: Covid-19 (Part 53) Post-Holidays & Pre-Boosted

[salbutera]

CT & Tennessee are very different places... basic geography.

No it’s not - it’s all about access. I go to TN quite often for work, the upper middle class communities & above are just fine, it’s the inner cities & rural areas that are getting hammered, partially due to political beliefs and more so socio- economic conditions.

Canadian healthcare peanut butters it, so everyone has access but not necessarily good service.

If you have healthcare in the US it’s exceptional service..but it’s mainly employer sponsored and you need a job for it or affordable (Obama) care costs $ on the exchange

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I read the post I replied to.

If you do understand why the lack of restrictions in TN is problematic, and that the health care system there isn't superior to the flawed, but accessible system in Quebec, then perhaps your post was simply not consistent with your actual beliefs

You're well versed enough on the site to know how quoting posts work, and that you can't expect anyone replying to a specific post to have read everything you've posted previously...

Since we're talking about post you quoted. When did I ever mention the lack of restrictions in TN wasn't problematic? I never claimed their healthcare was 'superior', I even went as far as saying I don't know much about their system. The only thing I said is that given we have free healthcare people are more likely to use the services.

This is what I said:

A lot of the differences are related to how poor our healthcare system is. I can't speak to Tennessee's system but our has limited resources and we feel it a lot quicker. Being as its free healthcare more people are likely to go to the hospital in the first place too.

Also, our free healthcare is great but its well known wait times for family physicians and so on is a problem. We have flaws in our system that I can speak to. I don't know TN and can't really comment on much beyond the obvious.

In any case, I think we agree.

 

[Miller Time]

No it’s not - it’s all about access. I go to TN quite often for work, the upper middle class communities & above are just fine, it’s the inner cities & rural areas that are getting hammered, partially due to political beliefs and more so socio- economic conditions

Yes, and that's by design. Hence why the wealthiest country on the planet has some of the worst health outcomes per $ spent in the world.

That a small few can spend their way to better access & outcomes isn't a reflection of an effective system.

 

[OnTheRun]

Play it fast and loose? Go bowling? What in the world do you even think you talking about?

This is called evaluating a crisis and coming up with a plan to combat the situation. Medical staff shortage is and was always going to be one of our key deficiencies, it's very fundamental and basic that this should have been a high priority area to address. Fast-Tracking medical training to combat COVID when we are overwhelmed with COVID is as fundamentally sound a strategy as exists. Canada has a large training and academic infrastructure that should have been leveraged in this manner.

You either want to half-ass the nurses/doctors training process or you are talking about training some kind of "covid-medic" brigade.
The first proposition is bad, very bad.
The "covid-medic" would be useless outside a surge and would be out of a job every time things are cooling down, so who is going to enroll in that kind of training program since it doesn't have any future as a job?

 

[salbutera]

Yes, and that's by design. Hence why the wealthiest country on the planet has some of the worst health outcomes per $ spent in the world.

That a small few can spend their way to better access & outcomes isn't a reflection of an effective system.

I believe in 2020 (297M) or 90% of the population had employer sponsored healthcare, that’s a lot more than a “small few”

For profit system enables innovation, which is why - No country in the world can match the medical innovation in the US. No one

You get what you pay for in life - free is well and good, but don’t expect quality service or innovation

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Though I do think if you attached financial incentives (tax breaks?) to good physical health you could probably push health in a good direction. Kind of like the insurance drop for good drivers.

How do you measure good physical health anyway?

If I go to the gym and then eat 15 cheeseburgers and drink a bottle of gin, how will the government know?

Unless you want them to have access to your every move?

Health is not just about exercise. Will they track if I do drugs? Drink excessively? Will they see if I get the required sleep?

What your proposing is nice in theory but less logical when you realize how intrusive it is.

IMO, you can't track people. The best they can do is mandate better school health programs, put incentives on certain groceries, subsidize gym memberships and wellness activities, etc...

 

[solidaritypucks]

You either want to half-ass the nurses/doctors training process or you are talking about training some kind of "covid-medic" brigade.
The first proposition is bad, very bad.
The "covid-medic" would be useless outside a surge and would be out of a job every time things are cooling down, so who is going to enroll in that kind of training program since it doesn't have any future as a job?

Provide educational funding and a future pathway for advancement and training in the medical field when the crisis is passed. Heaven knows we are going to need a lot more nurses and other associated health workers in the future.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I believe in 2020 (297M) or 90% of the population had employer sponsored healthcare, that’s a lot more than a “small few”

For profit system enables innovation, which is why - No country in the world can match the medical innovation in the US. No one

It was in the low 80s just a few years ago, before Obamacare.

Even today, for 10% of the population (~30M) to not have healthcare in a country as rich as the US is a disgrace. There's no perfect solution, but America's current for-profit healthcare system ain't it.

 

[solidaritypucks]

How do you measure good physical health anyway?

If I go to the gym and then eat 15 cheeseburgers and drink a bottle of gin, how will the government know?

Unless you want them to have access to your every move?

Health is not just about exercise. Will they track if I do drugs? Drink excessively? Will they see if I get the required sleep?

What your proposing is nice in theory but less logical when you realize how intrusive it is.

IMO, you can't track people. The best they can do is mandate better school health programs, put incentives on certain groceries, subsidize gym memberships and wellness activities, etc...

A certified physical from a doctor loaded onto our 'health passport' could contain a lot of vital information. But heck forget about the tracking or tax breaks they could just do what you suggest there and it would be better and more ethical a concept than these intrusive vaccines-based economic and social exclusions we are bringing in. And it would help keep people out out of the hospital.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Provide educational funding and a future pathway for advancement and training in the medical field when the crisis is passed. Heaven knows we are going to need a lot more nurses and other associated health workers in the future.

I think it goes back to @OnTheRun 's original point.

We all agree we can use more staff, resources, etc...This isn't a 2 year fix. It takes time and they absolutely should be pumping out more nurses and doctors as I'd rather have a surplus than a shortage of them. It will take time though. There is no patch solution.

 

[salbutera]

It was in the low 80s just a few years ago, before Obamacare.

Even today, for 10% of the population (~30M) to not have healthcare in a country as rich as the US is a disgrace. There's no perfect solution, but America's current for-profit healthcare system ain't it.

Which other system comes close to providing exceptional service with little to no wait times for a population the size of 300M or more? None - Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands though solid systems have small manageable population size and healthcare isn’t linearly scalable.

Anyway this is a Covid thread - the access to vaccinations for everyone for no cost is available on every street corner.

 

[solidaritypucks]

I think it goes back to @OnTheRun 's original point.

We all agree we can use more staff, resources, etc...This isn't a 2 year fix. It takes time and they absolutely should be pumping out more nurses and doctors as I'd rather have a surplus than a shortage of them. It will take time though. There is no patch solution.

It's a bogus point though, to ramp up a force of specialized staff specifically to treat low and medium risk patients of COVID during a COVID pandemic is absolutely something we could have accomplished. Canada is a rich, developed nation with significant training and academic infrastructure. We just didn't bother to try this approach in any way whatsoever as far as I can see. We relied on calling back retired nurses onto the job and making them work excessive overtime instead. Insane policy.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

A certified physical from a doctor loaded onto our 'health passport' could contain a lot of vital information. But heck forget about the tracking or tax breaks they could just do what you suggest there and it would be better and more ethical a concept than these intrusive vaccines-based economic and social exclusions we are bringing in. And it would help keep people out out of the hospital.

You keep saying this but again, the vaccine is the cheapest, fastest and most effective solution to COVID.

This is undeniable. If you do not agree with this you are purposely avoiding logic.

As I said before, apples and oranges. One does not fix the other. These are two very real issues(general health and covid). Neither should be ignored and one solution will not magically fix both. Getting a vaccine won't cure you from everything and getting in shape does not protect as well as the vaccine.

 

[OnTheRun]

Provide educational funding and a future pathway for advancement and training in the medical field when the crisis is passed. Heaven knows we are going to need a lot more nurses and other associated health workers in the future.

That much is already underway (training fully qualified HCWs), it take time to come to fruition.

Asking people to hold an on-and-off job for an unknown amount of time during a crisis then sending them back to school so they can become a nurse or whatever won't be a hit with anyone when they can just stay in school and skip the whole shitty job part of your plan.

 

[WeeBey]

Well when we look at forced curfews, lock-downs, forced isolation's, constant doom-and-gloom over all the mass media, stressful inter-society debates over passports and now vaccine fines. This is the opposite of encouraging a healthy lifestyle. This is taking decisions that negatively impact societal health and well-being.

It's definitely an admirable goal. I just don't think it's viable or would be effective at this juncture.