OT: Covid-19 (Part 52) Meet the New Year, same as the Old Year

[LyricalLyricist]

Some healthy young men that have recovered from covid have weighed the benefits of the supposed extra protection that comes from vaccination vs their own healthy natural immunity.

They looked at the data, and felt that it's not conclusive long-term evidence. They have gone through a multitude of other health issues in their life and have determined that for them, their body is great at protecting itself and they don't require the protection given by the vaccines.

I didn't spend my life in their body so I can't say whether or not they are correct or not, I can only accept that after looking into the matter at length, they chose what they feel is best for their body. They may be scientists or doctors themselves. They may be specialists in the field.

But I can guarantee you that educated people that are informed on the matter have chosen not to get vaccinated. I know some. And just because you dismiss their opinion on the matter, or everyone here as a group dismisses their opinion on the matter, doesn't mean they're misinformed.

I'll pre-face by saying I'm not sold on forcing people to get the vaccine even if I do believe in vaccine passports and all that. You can choose to not have access to stuff, you make final say.

That said, what I don't get is this slanted argument. It starts in your first sentence with "their own healthy natural immunity". This implies getting the vaccine can be seen as unhealthy and yet it has resulted in improved immunity as a whole so it's an odd thing to say.

You follow it up with "they looked at the data and its not conclusive" and yet...they've made a conclusion that its inferior to their own 'healthy' natural immunity. They seem to be unsure on if they have the data to make conclusions, unless it supports their argument.

All in all the data does support vaccine helps you and while people can choose not to get it its also pointlessly rebellious.

Being intelligent, educated or informed is obviously a good thing but sometimes people are all 3 and still make bad decisions. Do not underestimate emotion and ego.

That said, I genuinely don't care if these people get vaccinated but its starting to look like they may be on outside looking in. I genuinely don't think its worth the trouble but to each their own.

 

[Deebs]

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I don't mean to revive a deleted post but there was a source on one:



At 3:10 Trudeau does indeed talk a little shit about the unvaccinated.

The reason the quote couldn't be found is because it was translated from French.

This is from September.

 

[solidaritypucks]

President Macron of France:

"Moi, je ne suis pas pour emmerder les Français. Je peste toute la journée contre l’administration quand elle les bloque. Eh bien, là, les non-vaccinés, j’ai très envie de les emmerder", a-t-il dit, ajoutant "Quand ma liberté vient menacer celle des autres, je deviens un irresponsable. Un irresponsable n’est plus un citoyen"

Europe, vaccination, présidentielle… Emmanuel Macron se livre à nos lecteurs


Trudeau of Canada:

“We all know people who are deciding whether or not they are willing to get vaccinated, and we will do our very best to try to convince them. However, there is still a part of the population that is fiercely against it. They don’t believe in science and progress and are very often misogynistic and racist. It’s a very small group of people, but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that they take up some space. This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people? Over 80% of the population of Quebec have done their duty by getting the shot. They are obviously not the issue in this situation.

Things are going to get worse before they get better, that's the way it looks.

(mod)

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

President Macron of France:



Europe, vaccination, présidentielle… Emmanuel Macron se livre à nos lecteurs


Trudeau of Canada:





Things are going to get worse before they get better, that's the way it looks.

Shout out to the mod who deleted my completely factual and informative post on the basis that he/she hadn't seen it personally.

Thanks for the recording here.

Trudeau really missed the mark here. Saying that group is dug in and anti-science I think most would've gotten behind. But throwing in the racism and misogyny accusation is a mistake. He's grouping in far right groups with the unvaccinated and while it might be true of some, it's not true of all.

Dumb move on his part.

 

[solidaritypucks]

Thanks for the recording here.

Trudeau really missed the mark here. Saying that group is dug in and anti-science I think most would've gotten behind. But throwing in the racism and misogyny accusation is a mistake. He's grouping in far right groups with the unvaccinated and while it might be true of some, it's not true of all.

Dumb move on his part.

An inflammatory move by Trudeau and Macron to make these kinds of comments, but also calculated ones considering both Trudeau and Macron spoke this way in planned media appearances. What do you believe is the intent of these leaders in making these kinds of rhetorical statements?

 

[River Meadow]

Is the SAQ ban on unvaxxed in effect now?

If not, I assume that's the restriction that will be put in place tomorrow at 11am.

 

[loudi94]

Thanks for the recording here.

Trudeau really missed the mark here. Saying that group is dug in and anti-science I think most would've gotten behind. But throwing in the racism and misogyny accusation is a mistake. He's grouping in far right groups with the unvaccinated and while it might be true of some, it's not true of all.

Dumb move on his part.

Why, do you think this comment will cost him the support of anyone that voted for him?

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

Thanks for the recording here.

Trudeau really missed the mark here. Saying that group is dug in and anti-science I think most would've gotten behind. But throwing in the racism and misogyny accusation is a mistake. He's grouping in far right groups with the unvaccinated and while it might be true of some, it's not true of all.

Dumb move on his part.

Someone should have asked him where he gets the data on these specific groups. Maybe they DO have substantial data that points to those folks. But if it was a personal opinion, it was definitely not very professional. Then again, I'm thinking that at this stage, world leaders are starting to really lose their patience with the unvaxxed and saying things that they wouldn't otherwise say.

So I've been following the discussion you guys have been having for some time and it's quite fascinating but what is your stance on booster shots? We're all in agreement on the vaccine itself, but as Israel hits the 4th shot, even vaxxed folks are starting to wonder....

An acquaintance of mine has been following this podcast for a while and based on the information disseminated, remains unconvinced at the necessity of the booster shot: ‎The VPZD Show: Ep. 4: Omicron Panic, Natural Immunity, Fluvoxamine, Boosters, Fauci (w/ Dr. Marty Makary) on Apple Podcasts

 

[Lshap]

How many unvaxxed people under the age of 40 are clogging our hospitals right at this moment? Is this demographic a risk for clogging our hospitals? Waiting for your data driven conclusion.

Quebec hospitalizations by vaccine status (December 24 through January 3*):

Ages 0-39:
Unvaccinated: 199
Vaccinated 1 Dose: 12
Vaccinated 2 Doses: 117

Ages 0-49:
Unvaccinated: 250
Vaccinated 1 Dose: 14
Vaccinated 2 Doses: 158

COVID-19 - Portrait quotidien du statut vaccinal des nouveaux cas et des nouvelles hospitalisations - Historique du portrait quotidien du statut vaccinal des nouvelles hospitalisations - Données Québec

The outlook is worse for the younger unvaccinated population. The vaccinated who are hospitalized are predominantly 70+. If the above data was not what you expected, you have two choices: 1) Honour the data by updating/changing your opinion; 2) Ignore the data and default back to familiar superstitions.

(*I had already calculated the totals for Dec. 24-30. I added the most recent 4 days to the numbers)

 

[dcyhabs]

An inflammatory move by Trudeau and Macron to make these kinds of comments, but also calculated ones considering both Trudeau and Macron spoke this way in planned media appearances. What do you believe is the intent of these leaders in making these kinds of rhetorical statements?

He’s probably referring to the idiots wearing stars of David to protests. There is probably significant overlap between the gullible and racist groups.

The data is pretty consistent. Vaccines are good.

 

[GrandBison]

He’s probably referring to the idiots wearing stars of David to protests. There is probably significant overlap between the gullible and racist groups.

The data is pretty consistent. Vaccines are good.

But there is also the natural products crowd who would have preferred a walk in the forest and an herbal decoction to a vaccine.

 

[salbutera]

Quebec hospitalizations by vaccine status (December 24 through January 3*):

Ages 0-39:
Unvaccinated: 199
Vaccinated 1 Dose: 12
Vaccinated 2 Doses: 117

Ages 0-49:
Unvaccinated: 250
Vaccinated 1 Dose: 14
Vaccinated 2 Doses: 158

COVID-19 - Portrait quotidien du statut vaccinal des nouveaux cas et des nouvelles hospitalisations - Historique du portrait quotidien du statut vaccinal des nouvelles hospitalisations - Données Québec

The outlook is worse for the younger unvaccinated population. The vaccinated who are hospitalized are predominantly 70+. If the above data was not what you expected, you have two choices: 1) Honour the data by updating/changing your opinion; 2) Ignore the data and default back to familiar superstitions.

(*I had already calculated the totals for Dec. 24-30. I added the most recent 4 days to the numbers)

Would be interesting to understand how many of those 70+ had preexisting conditions putting them in higher risk category

 

[dcyhabs]

But there is also the natural products crowd who would have preferred a walk in the forest and an herbal decoction to a vaccine.

I’m sure the overlap is not complete. Not saying Trudeau did the right thing but they’ve tried p***yfooting and not hurting people’s feelings, maybe yelling “get vaccinated you ignoramuses” will help.

Edit: the censoring is funny.