OT: Covid-19 (Part 15) Heal Thyself edition

[Kriss E]

Honestly, it's like the Pool Business story i told you yesterday. It's not that it's a terrible idea….but it should not have been the first on the list. Many more things are safer than this. Just like Daycare and Kids to schools isn't the first thing i would have done.

I would prefer to be able to let kids see their good friends everyday (like 5-6 persons) for the whole summer than going to school with 500 différents kids a day. It's a lot safer and it's 10 times better for socializing (since it's the new lie we should believe)

This plan wasn't known yesterday though. I agree, not at the top of the list.
I would have started with allowing small group gatherings of up to 4. If there isn't a resurgence that means the virus is indeed under control.
Right now they're going to allow hundreds of people to be enclosed in old schools, as I previously mentioned, my friend's classroom windows don't even open.
It's like they're going all in on their first poker draw with an average hand at best. Pointlessly risky to start that way.

 

[Paddyjack]

Yes but one car death won't lead to another. Each car accident/death is independent from another except when it implies multiple cars.

For this virus, you have a group of people who caught it by traveling and those guys are the source, since then, it's a domino affect. If no measures were ever taken, every single person would have ended up infected.

It's not really a good analogy.

Thank you for putting this more calmly than I did ;p

 

[groovejuice]

Her friends later demonstrated outside the cop's home as well, that pisses me off more than the deed itself. I guess they are not used to this normally but this time it was national news and her social apps probably went very "hot" from people commentating and now she tries to walk it back. These anti-vaccers are dangerous. I know from first hand experience and we broke up due to this and some other hocus pocus.

Your experience is unfortunate, but I give you immense credit for using the expression hocus pocus, when clearly harsher descriptions are appropriate.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Exactly, I did not see any real remorse , maybe she sell new age stones trinkets and she thinks her business will be hurt. I am pretty sure her kids are home schooled due to not being vaccinated. OTOH she lives in Idaho, a state with lots of strange people (militias) and even more potatoes so maybe they go to school.

POCATELLO FOR LIFE video game have let me meet some wonderful people

 

[Paddyjack]

BC will lag behind for school restarting and I'm ok with it. Personally in my mind the school year is over anyway. My children are in primary school (5 y.o and 8 y.o) and my biggest fear is that my children would infect both my partner and I at the same time. We live in BC, far from any family, so imagine for a minute than both my partner and I end up in hospital. Who takes care of the children? I'm 51, my partner 42, so not exactly young and solid parents according to statistics. And if we are infected it would mean they are too, so who of my friends would want them living with them...?

I try not to think about this, as it is an unlikely scenario, but still....

 

[scrubadam]

So Cuomo is saying 25% of NYC got the CV.

 

[Milhouse40]

That's the thing that pisses me off.
I'm all for the end of the lockdown IF some measures are taken to ensure a safer return to normal.

All the government is doing is playing with the spreading rate because their main objective is to attain herd immunity while not overloading the system.

They don't care about the total number of deaths, they only care about a manageable death rate.

We have capitulated already.
Covid19 won.
Our measures were way too soft, all in the name of freedom and democracy.

Safe return.

Is there a way to be safer in NOT spreading the virus?

That's the question everybody should be asking themselves cause if we screw up, we will have a very hard time.
And there's tons of ways to make it safer, the example is all around the planet, even in our own freaking country.

 

[HockeyAddict]

What Quebec is proposing is pretty much in line with what some European countries are doing...

Lockdown eased: Netherlands and France plan to re-open primary schools

My primary concern is that Legault/Arruda are going to f*** up monitoring due to insufficient testing - we'll see but they better get their act together.

 

[hotcarle]

I thought so too but then heard their pressers and not as confident anymore. They didn't seem particularly prepared and teachers were obviously left out in the dark. Doesn't really sound like a well prepared plan.

Daycare is very different though. There's no curriculum to follow. It's not focusing on problems, we're in a pandemic, it's a very serious matter that needs well thought out planning and troubleshooting.


Again, curriculum needs to be followed. They can't just close a class, the teacher will just have to work even more in the end.


Not really making out what you tried to say there.

It's not about I told you so or not...schools are cesspools to begin with, and they're putting the demographic most likely to break the measures back into society. Most people I spoke to aren't particularly worried about the kids getting sick because apparently this virus is way less harmful on them, the teachers are scared they personally will get sick. They actually flat out expect it as they all always get sick during school years.
My friend's classroom doesn't even have windows that open.


I'm all for action. I just didn't think that's what they were going to start with.
I expected them to start by increasing their tests and allowing smaller indoor gatherings of up to 3-4 people.
If they just allowed those gatherings and tested more, they'd easily be able to see if the virus is still prevalent in all the general population.

Now you're putting up to hundreds of kids and teachers together inside the same building where spreading the virus will be way easier and riskier than just allowing friends to gather indoor or in backyards of up to 4 people.
If those gatherings didn't lead to increases in cases, then the virus is under control and you could start reopening schools and some businesses.
Hearing them say how we are still strictly meant not to gather anywhere and stay home means they believe the virus is very much out there.
Makes no sense that kids can go back to school with hundreds of people all present but I can't have a beer on my buddy's balcony. It's upside down.

Did you hear in New Brunswick, they’re doing a new thing where you “pair up” with one other household that you’re allowed to see. That’sa funny idea. “Do you want to quarantine family date?” “Ummm, sure.., actually, a better looking, more popular family just asked me... actually they just said they found a better looking more interesting family, so yes, we’ll be your quarantine family pair “

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

What Quebec is proposing is pretty much in line with what some European countries are doing...

Lockdown eased: Netherlands and France plan to re-open primary schools

My primary concern is that Legault/Arruda are going to f*** up monitoring due to insufficient testing - we'll see but they better get their act together.

this is the problem: testing. They aren’t doing anywhere near enough.

 

[Runner77]

Exactly, I did not see any real remorse , maybe she sell new age stones trinkets and she thinks her business will be hurt. I am pretty sure her kids are home schooled due to not being vaccinated. OTOH she lives in Idaho, a state with lots of strange people (militias) and even more potatoes so maybe they go to school.

When in doubt, always invoke the 'taters.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

POCATELLO FOR LIFE video game have let me meet some wonderful people

It's a beautiful state, if I lived there I'd choose either Coeur d'Alene which is a very nice city in the north or Sun Valley which is a nice ski resort in the south. It is also fun to drive fast on the highways. I know a bit about Idaho since it is in the PNW so we get a fair amount of news from there on our local news.

 

[Runner77]

Would love to have some crispy Vietnamese spring rolls right now.

Bet you anything Groove has a recipe for those.

 

[Milhouse40]

What Quebec is proposing is pretty much in line with what some European countries are doing...

Lockdown eased: Netherlands and France plan to re-open primary schools

My primary concern is that Legault/Arruda are going to f*** up monitoring due to insufficient testing - we'll see but they better get their act together.

Almost the same.

Except in France, everybody will wear masks, including children. That's like a giant difference right there.
In Netherlands, they ask to send their kids to school by their own means as much as possible, even bicycle to not get into public transport and they will tests routinely their teachers and school staffs.

Both of those country are now recording half of the daily cases they were adding in their peak and keep dropping everyday.

Said this for days now, there's a simple road map for safety in most country reopening:
- Lots of Testing
- Masks
- A drop in daily new cases by half of their peak and descending daily

Quebec is still 0 out 3.

 

[MXD]

What Quebec is proposing is pretty much in line with what some European countries are doing...

Lockdown eased: Netherlands and France plan to re-open primary schools

My primary concern is that Legault/Arruda are going to f*** up monitoring due to insufficient testing - we'll see but they better get their act together.

They also got hit significantly earlier, meaning the increase of cases has slowed down.

 

[Runner77]

Did you hear in New Brunswick, they’re doing a new thing where you “pair up” with one other household that you’re allowed to see. That’sa funny idea. “Do you want to quarantine family date?” “Ummm, sure.., actually, a better looking, more popular family just asked me... actually they just said they found a better looking more interesting family, so yes, we’ll be your quarantine family pair “

Quarantoonies: family engaged in the act of quarantining with a designated counterpart family on Canadian soil.

Quarantooning: the pairing up of quarantoonies.

 

[Runner77]

Said this for days now, there's a simple road map for safety in most country reopening:
- Lots of Testing
- Masks
- A drop in daily new cases by half of their peak and descending daily

Quebec is still 0 out 3.

 

[waffledave]

(MOD)

You want stats?, ok:

Oh look, 1 million + people died from road accidents, should we ban access to roads to?

But yeah no you're right, locking down the entire world for a virus that has a very small death count makes perfect sense at this time.

As many have already pointed out, this is a terrible argument for a number of reasons.
- Access to a vehicle is already heavily regulated, requires licensing and numerous measures in place specifically because it is dangerous
- These are annual numbers. So 1 million deaths in a year vs 200,000 deaths in 4 months with COVID. The bulk of which has been in the last 3 weeks. How do you think those numbers will look at the end of the year?
- Road accidents are not contagious. Things like drunk driving that do put others in danger are criminal offenses.

I mean come on, you have to know by now that a lot of people have made this dumb argument already and it's been destroyed over and over. It's the same stupid talking points from Fox News.

The way you are downplaying this thing is supported by nobody credible. The best you got is Alex Berenson on Twitter who's credentials include writing some shitty spy fiction and a book that says if you smoke weed you go to hell.

We can find better and cheaper solutions to isolate older people, build more residences etc... locking down the entire world seems at the very least crazy.

How long are we ready to wait inside before completly losing it? 6 months? 1 year? 2 years? can we even afford it? wouldnt that cause more deaths than the virus it self?

The virus has been around for 2 months here, you expect us to redevelop our entire elder care network and build a bunch of new buildings for them (during a pandemic) in that time? That's your idea?

Nobody is saying stay indoors forever. But there is nothing about the current situation that says now is the time to start relaxing measures. We have substandard testing capacity and steadily growing infections as it is. You think now is a good time to start removing mitigation measures?

If you're so eager to get it, and you really think it's nothing to worry about, why don't you go get it right now? Go to St-Henri, check out the parks on St-Antoine near the big fountain. They are full of homeless people coughing their lungs out right now, you can pass by and give them a hug.

 

[Runner77]

It's a beautiful state, if I lived there I'd choose either Coeur d'Alene which is a very nice city in the north or Sun Valley which is a nice ski resort in the south. It is also fun to drive fast on the highways. I know a bit about Idaho since it is in the PNW so we get a fair amount of news from there on our local news.

Plus, that's where you get your 'taters too, right? Just sayin'.

 

[Milhouse40]

I tried to have a feel about what other Canadians feels about what we are doing….

Some would like to be here and applaud our guts.
many are praying for us as they are really scared were making a terrible mistake.
Some wants to really watch what's going to happen but they also want other provinces to block all access from and to Quebec.

I would say, it's 80% negative.

One of the province that did a great job at controlling their outbreak and flatten the curve and stop the fire in their long term care center had this to say about what we're doing

 

[waffledave]

somehow people that want to stay home are not happy with people that want to restart their lives. go figure.

Everyone wants to go back to normal. But there's such a thing as controlled risk and education decisions. What about the numbers tells you now is a good time to relax the mitigation efforts we have been doing? You do understand that if cases increase again, we're going back into lockdown, right?

A real lockdown, a strict one. Not this cosplay quarantine we've been doing.

And if we did a 6 week lockdown at 30 cases, how long is the lockdown after 23,000 cases?

 

[waffledave]

Do we know how many of these cases are from long term care facilities?

I posted it earlier, it was about 170.

 

[Tuggy]

Did you hear in New Brunswick, they’re doing a new thing where you “pair up” with one other household that you’re allowed to see. That’sa funny idea. “Do you want to quarantine family date?” “Ummm, sure.., actually, a better looking, more popular family just asked me... actually they just said they found a better looking more interesting family, so yes, we’ll be your quarantine family pair “

Yes, we are doing that here. It meant we needed to pick between grandparents but at least the kids got to spend the weekend with their nanny and didn't violate any laws.

 

[Milhouse40]

Don't give me ideas….i kept thinking how cool it would be to walk around in a Mandalorian suit....and that's even without the virus.

 

[Runner77]

I posted it earlier, it was about 170.

Thanks. That's a smaller proportion relative to today's total than in past weeks, no?

If so, then we need to look at what kind of mitigation is being enforced and where.

 

[waffledave]

BC will lag behind for school restarting and I'm ok with it. Personally in my mind the school year is over anyway. My children are in primary school (5 y.o and 8 y.o) and my biggest fear is that my children would infect both my partner and I at the same time. We live in BC, far from any family, so imagine for a minute than both my partner and I end up in hospital. Who takes care of the children? I'm 51, my partner 42, so not exactly young and solid parents according to statistics. And if we are infected it would mean they are too, so who of my friends would want them living with them...?

I try not to think about this, as it is an unlikely scenario, but still....

I think this is something that people are not really considering unless they have young kids.

I mean sure, probably my kid will be fine. But if she passes it to me, then my wife's going to get it too. If we've both sick, then what? Kid is 1 year old. Who takes care of her?

Parents are in shut down regions of Quebec, not accessible. Brother in Ottawa. Sister is off limits too since my brother in law has no spleen and thus, a shit immune system. Doctor already told him if he gets it, he's dead. He's 30.

So what is available to us if we both get it? Child services takes her away?