Salary Cap: Connor & Laine Contracts

[Hunter368]

Continued

Click to read more...

 

[PhilJets]

Here we go

I just find it hard that people think Laine is some kind of liability. All of our top 6 wingers are talented but Laine was the best of them 16/17-17/18. Here are all the wingers competing for top line ice's GAR:

View attachment 255299

Scoring rates are similar among all of them especially in 17/18

View attachment 255301

I think it points to a bigger issue then which winger plays where and that issue is the lack of a 1B center. If we had that we could run both lines around the same amount of time. Problem solved.

Laine is a really good player.
And he will be for a long time.

Some only sees that 3 months and pretend its his whole career. Coincidently the spiral down of the whole team.

Some dont even see he was doing well going to March, despite lack of points and into The playoff.


Re my bolded...

If at work it comes as my assessment time for my evaluation and salary increase.

Heres my accomplishment the last 3 years of production.

Pretend i sell rooms for a big hotel.
Year 1
Generated top sale for the company as entry level marketing staff.
Year 2
Beats out year 1 and again top sale for thr company. This despite the fact i was sent to sell rooms to as far away as Africa.
Sales achieved per campaign is record breaking % not just for this company but comparatively to other hotels as well.

Year 3
Started of 1st quarter with another record performance.
Middle quarters, didnt do so well. Actually was very bad. The whole hotel sales drop also for that period.
Last quarter
Able to recover to decent performance and was able to go back to previous years pwrformance during the last campaing period.


Now during your assessmwnt. Your self you think you deserve a 20% raise and a promotion.

But this is what you boss tells you.

" you are getting a 5% raise beause you really did bad on that 3rd year middle quarter there. And unfortunately ypu dont getpromoted yet, we need for you to prove more."


I think i would quit my job, wouldn't you?

 

[Daximus]

Here we go





Laine is a really good player.
And he will be for a long time.

Some only sees that 3 months and pretend its his whole career. Coincidently the spiral down of the whole team.

Some dont even see he was doing well going to March, despite lack of points and into The playoff.


Re my bolded...

If at work it comes as my assessment time for my evaluation and salary increase.

Heres my accomplishment the last 3 years of production.

Pretend i sell rooms for a big hotel.
Year 1
Generated top sale for the company as entry level marketing staff.
Year 2
Beats out year 1 and again top sale for thr company. This despite the fact i was sent to sell rooms to as far away as Africa.
Sales achieved per campaign is record breaking % not just for this company but comparatively to other hotels as well.

Year 3
Started of 1st quarter with another record performance.
Middle quarters, didnt do so well. Actually was very bad. The whole hotel sales drop also for that period.
Last quarter
Able to recover to decent performance and was able to go back to previous years pwrformance during the last campaing period.


Now during your assessmwnt. Your self you think you deserve a 20% raise and a promotion.

But this is what you boss tells you.

" you are getting a 5% raise beause you really did bad on that 3rd year middle quarter there. And unfortunately ypu dont getpromoted yet, we need for you to prove more."


I think i would quit my job, wouldn't you?

I don't think there has ever been a player in Laine's position. How many guys have two insane years at 18/19 and then fall flat on their face at 20?

 

[oldunclehue]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Laine will be a generational player?

I’ve watched him 100’s of games, can he score, yes but does he have the skill set to be a Mcdavid, Crosby, Ovi, Matthews, McKinnon player? I don’t see it, I don’t believe his body type is conducive to being a generational talent as an effective true hockey talent. Will he score, likely but how do we pay a very one trick pony coming off a very off year?

The market for his current value is likely in the Boeser area, but he will demand more because he can score. I don’t think his value right now is higher than Boeser based on his over all game. Long term, I believe Boeser will be a better all round player.

I hope I’m wrong, but I see Laines nagging back issues as a red flag, at his height and size, along with his rumoured work ethic away from the rink, I’m concerned his body may not put up with long seasons especially if teams really start to play him physically.

I don’t want to gamble on our future if he’s asking huge cash and term. A bridge around 7 AAV is my hope...or less.

 

[Daximus]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Laine will be a generational player?

I’ve watched him 100’s of games, can he score, yes but does he have the skill set to be a Mcdavid, Crosby, Ovi, Matthews, McKinnon player? I don’t see it, I don’t believe his body type is conducive to being a generational talent as an effective true hockey talent. Will he score, likely but how do we pay a very one trick pony coming off a very off year?

The market for his current value is likely in the Boeser area, but he will demand more because he can score. I don’t think his value right now is higher than Boeser based on his over all game. Long term, I believe Boeser will be a better all round player.

I hope I’m wrong, but I see Laines nagging back issues as a red flag, at his height and size, along with his rumoured work ethic away from the rink, I’m concerned his body may not put up with long seasons especially if teams really start to play him physically.

I don’t want to gamble on our future if he’s asking huge cash and term. A bridge around 7 AAV is my hope...or less.

Generational players tend to enter the league in a generational fashion and stay generational. They can play with anyone and make everyone around them better. Laine is not generational.

 

[Hunter368]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Laine will be a generational player?

I’ve watched him 100’s of games, can he score, yes but does he have the skill set to be a Mcdavid, Crosby, Ovi, Matthews, McKinnon player? I don’t see it, I don’t believe his body type is conducive to being a generational talent as an effective true hockey talent. Will he score, likely but how do we pay a very one trick pony coming off a very off year?

The market for his current value is likely in the Boeser area, but he will demand more because he can score. I don’t think his value right now is higher than Boeser based on his over all game. Long term, I believe Boeser will be a better all round player.

I hope I’m wrong, but I see Laines nagging back issues as a red flag, at his height and size, along with his rumoured work ethic away from the rink, I’m concerned his body may not put up with long seasons especially if teams really start to play him physically.

I don’t want to gamble on our future if he’s asking huge cash and term. A bridge around 7 AAV is my hope...or less.

Don't think anyone believes he's generational player......at least I hope not bc he's far from it. Some believe he could become a generational goal scorer (whatever that is).

 

[Howard Chuck]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Laine will be a generational player?

I’ve watched him 100’s of games, can he score, yes but does he have the skill set to be a Mcdavid, Crosby, Ovi, Matthews, McKinnon player? I don’t see it, I don’t believe his body type is conducive to being a generational talent as an effective true hockey talent. Will he score, likely but how do we pay a very one trick pony coming off a very off year?

The market for his current value is likely in the Boeser area, but he will demand more because he can score. I don’t think his value right now is higher than Boeser based on his over all game. Long term, I believe Boeser will be a better all round player.

I hope I’m wrong, but I see Laines nagging back issues as a red flag, at his height and size, along with his rumoured work ethic away from the rink, I’m concerned his body may not put up with long seasons especially if teams really start to play him physically.

I don’t want to gamble on our future if he’s asking huge cash and term. A bridge around 7 AAV is my hope...or less.

Good thing you weren’t our GM when Scheifele was 20.

 

[Neuf]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Laine will be a generational player?

I’ve watched him 100’s of games, can he score, yes but does he have the skill set to be a Mcdavid, Crosby, Ovi, Matthews, McKinnon player? I don’t see it, I don’t believe his body type is conducive to being a generational talent as an effective true hockey talent. Will he score, likely but how do we pay a very one trick pony coming off a very off year?

The market for his current value is likely in the Boeser area, but he will demand more because he can score. I don’t think his value right now is higher than Boeser based on his over all game. Long term, I believe Boeser will be a better all round player.

I hope I’m wrong, but I see Laines nagging back issues as a red flag, at his height and size, along with his rumoured work ethic away from the rink, I’m concerned his body may not put up with long seasons especially if teams really start to play him physically.

I don’t want to gamble on our future if he’s asking huge cash and term. A bridge around 7 AAV is my hope...or less.

I don't agree that the players you listed are all one group, especially when using terms that generally mean the best of the best over a span of time.

I also think Laine is better than Boeser, so there's that as well.

 

[oldunclehue]

I don't agree that the players you listed are all one group, especially when using terms that generally mean the best of the best over a span of time.

I also think Laine is better than Boeser, so there's that as well.

Why is Laine better than Boeser?

- Boeser has 6 more points last year and played 13 less games, has a better PPG in 5v5 over the last 2 years.... better over all player.

Is it cause let me guess, Laine can score goals...but which laine will we get over the years? I’m not willing to bet the farm on it being a long term scorer.

 

[bennylundholm]

I don't think there has ever been a player in Laine's position. How many guys have two insane years at 18/19 and then fall flat on their face at 20?

I wouldn't call 30 goals falling on your face.

 

[Neuf]

Why is Laine better than Boeser?

- Boeser has 6 more points last year and played 13 less games, has a better PPG in 5v5 over the last 2 years.... better over all player.

Is it cause let me guess, Laine can score goals...but which laine will we get over the years? I’m not willing to bet the farm on it being a long term scorer.

Are you just messing? Laine has nearly as many goals as Boeser has points over their careers, despite Boeser being drafted a year earlier.

 

[Mbraunm]

Generational players tend to enter the league in a generational fashion and stay generational. They can play with anyone and make everyone around them better. Laine is not generational.

Laine very well might not be generational but not all generational players can necessarily play with everyone. Ovechkin has been tied to Backstrom’s hip. Brett Hull always had a playmaker to maximise his effectiveness. In fact, most elite goal scorers are top line players in today’s NHL, with one exception: Laine.

I think that Laine was terribly disrespectful and wrong today but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t right. Maurice completely messed up last year with a lineup which was so talented, it was almost impossible to screw it up! It took consistently terrible coaching, and Maurice somehow pulled it off!!

Unfortunately, I think that Laine showed his true colours today. However, Maurice showed his true colours all of last year.

If I had to choose between the two, I’d take Laine every day of the week.

 

[oldunclehue]

Are you just messing? Laine has nearly as many goals as Boeser has points over their careers, despite Boeser being drafted a year earlier.

5v5 points...Laine scores on the PP more often than 5v5. He’s a designated hitter of the NHL..

 

[Neuf]

5v5 points...Laine scores on the PP more often than 5v5. He’s a designated hitter of the NHL..

I can see your point, but it's a myth that powerplay points don't contribute to teams winning games.

Also:
Laine 68 of 184 37%
Boeser 40 of 116 34%
The gap isn't crazy...

 

[oldunclehue]

Laine very well might not be generational but not all generational players can necessarily play with everyone. Ovechkin has been tied to Backstrom’s hip. Brett Hull always had a playmaker to maximise his effectiveness. In fact, most elite goal scorers are top line players in today’s NHL, with one exception: Laine.

I think that Laine was terribly disrespectful and wrong today but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t right. Maurice completely messed up last year with a lineup which was so talented, it was almost impossible to screw it up! It took consistently terrible coaching, and Maurice somehow pulled it off!!

Unfortunately, I think that Laine showed his true colours today. However, Maurice showed his true colours all of last year.

If I had to choose between the two, I’d take Laine every day of the week.

Ovechkin had 310 points in his first three seasons and scored over 100 points 4 out of his first 5 years. He hits, he forechecks and can dive the play with the best of them. Please do not ever put Laine in his category...

Brett Hull has 251 points in his first 3 seasons and cracked 100 points in 3 of his first 5 seasons. Please do not compare Laine to him either.

Laine is his own player. We have never seen anyone like him, which can either be good or bad depending on how much you value 1 dimensional players. He can score when someone feeds him the perfect pass.

As a GM I see almost no way to actually value him vs anyone else in the league. You don’t truly learn a player until the tough times, and when Laine struggled last year he showed no signs of wanting to contribute by being better defensively or any other way, he sulked, his body language was as if he wanted nothing to do with playing unless he was scoring.

If he was over 7 mill on a bridge I walk away and trade him.

I don’t even discuss long term with his camp...that’s a shut door until he shows commitment to learning how to play the game better at the NHL level.

 

[Daximus]

I wouldn't call 30 goals falling on your face.

How many of those were at even strength?

 

[PhilJets]

I don't think there has ever been a player in Laine's position. How many guys have two insane years at 18/19 and then fall flat on their face at 20?

Thats what im getting at here.

Laine fell flat for 3 months there. So did the whole team. Team spiralled down.
We assume that 3 months is equal to a full season.
I always acknowledge Laine's short coming. But i keep ending up explaning. Now look at it at a wider lense.

And Laine recovered late in the year and was the best Jets in the playoff.

 

[Daximus]

Laine very well might not be generational but not all generational players can necessarily play with everyone. Ovechkin has been tied to Backstrom’s hip. Brett Hull always had a playmaker to maximise his effectiveness. In fact, most elite goal scorers are top line players in today’s NHL, with one exception: Laine.

I think that Laine was terribly disrespectful and wrong today but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t right. Maurice completely messed up last year with a lineup which was so talented, it was almost impossible to screw it up! It took consistently terrible coaching, and Maurice somehow pulled it off!!

Unfortunately, I think that Laine showed his true colours today. However, Maurice showed his true colours all of last year.

If I had to choose between the two, I’d take Laine every day of the week.

Ovechkin started with Jeff Halpern and still managed 50 goals in case you didn't watch he was a one man wrecking crew in his rookie season he was 5 times the player Laine is. Hull isnt generational and is actually quite a bit like Laine.

 

[Daximus]

Thats what im getting at here.

Laine fell flat for 3 months there. So did the whole team. Team spiralled down.
We assume that 3 months is equal to a full season.
I always acknowledge Laine's short coming. But i keep ending up explaning. Now look at it at a wider lense.

And Laine recovered late in the year and was the best Jets in the playoff.

Laine scored 18 of his 30 goals in a single month. Outside of that his play was pathetic. He was good in the playoffs dont know about the best Jet. But top 3 for sure. Where was that fire for like 80% of the season?

 

[surixon]

I don't think there has ever been a player in Laine's position. How many guys have two insane years at 18/19 and then fall flat on their face at 20?

I actually did a comparison and there are a couple that came to mind:

Mackinnon fell off after his first year and stayed as a 50 point player until his 5th year.
Seguin went from 67 points as a second year player to pacing 54 in his third year.

There were others but I can't remember them or find the spreadsheet.

 

[surixon]

I don't think anyone believe that Laine will be a generational player. There is only one of those and that is Crosby. McDavid may get there one day.

Most people think that Laine has a generational shot and can consistently be at the top of the goal scoring standings year after year like he was his first two years in the league. There is a lot of value in that as goals are a rare event in hockey and are incredibly important.

If Laine can round out his game and learn to use his size effectively in order to create time and space for himself then he will likely be franchise offensive winger that is among the top 5 in his league at the wing position.

 

[PhilJets]

Laine scored 18 of his 30 goals in a single month. Outside of that his play was pathetic. He was good in the playoffs dont know about the best Jet. But top 3 for sure. Where was that fire for like 80% of the season?

Nahh
He was not pathetic in October.
Connor was pathetic for 2 months there between Mid Oct to Dec.
He was not Pathetic end of Feb to playoff.

Laine was the Jets best player in the playoff.
The captain said they gave up in game 6. Laine playing with groin injury was all out for the most important game of the season.
That could have been catastrophic if he damage it more. Considering it was contract year.

This is what i dont agree with.
People "add 80% " down now. it started with a full season, which is 100%
But we are getting there..


And its great you acknowledge him being the best player in the league that month.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Maybe is waiting to see if laine gets his way. Then connor will hold out for usage too lol

 

[Daximus]

Nahh
He was not pathetic in October.
Connor was pathetic for 2 months there between Mid Oct to Dec.
He was not Pathetic end of Feb to playoff.

Laine was the Jets best player in the playoff.
The captain said they gave up in game 6. Laine playing with groin injury was all out for the most important game of the season.
That could have been catastrophic if he damage it more. Considering it was contract year.

This is what i dont agree with.
People "add 80% " down now. it started with a full season, which is 100%
But we are getting there..


And its great you acknowledge him being the best player in the league that month.

He had 3 goals and 2 assists in 12 games in October.
Meanwhile Connor had 6 goals and 5 assists in 12 games in October...

what team were you watching dude?

 

[PhilJets]

He had 3 goals and 2 assists in 12 games in October.
Meanwhile Connor had 6 goals and 5 assists in 12 games in October...

what team were you watching dude?

I thought you meant plays. Like overall plays.
And i didnt mentioned October only.

But speaking of goals.
There was a stretch there Connor was a ghost. Same with Ehlers and same with Laine, same with Schiefele and Wheeler. Look it up
Laine will always be exaggerated just because he is Laine.

Its just that 3 of the guys i mentioned got to play 3 more minutes per game to get things going.