Tribute Congratulations Kent Hughes for the best trade deadline in recent Habs history!

[le_sean]

A quote from the Twitch video from yesterday when someone said Lehkonen is overrated. "You are just wrong". Scouts and GM's don't agree with you.

He's having his best season yet at age 26 which is basically the start of his prime. Pretty sure he is a 15-20 goal and 40-50 pts asset moving forward and he does so much more than points.

I think you evaluating players on points which is flawed in so many ways

Yeah he’s a 50 point player that we are holding back. Man you are drinking some serious Kool-Aid.

He’s a hard working player that does a lot of little things well defensively and kills PKs. He can also add 10-15 goals a season. Nothing more. He’s been in the league 6 seasons and is 27 soon.

 

[Miller Time]

Yeah he’s a 50 point player that we are holding back. Man you are drinking some serious Kool-Aid.

He’s a hard working player that does a lot of little things well defensively and kills PKs. He can also add 10-15 goals a season. Nothing more. He’s been in the league 6 seasons and is 27 soon.

Kadri, Nazem... look him up. 31 this year and putting up double his career ppg pace.

Lek's already had "more" than 10-15 goal season, so it is false to say he can provide "nothing more".

 

[le_sean]

depends on how you define "untapped"...

Lek is 26, and is on pace for his highest ppg season (.5). His rookie year he put up 18g/73 games and he's on a similar pace this year... yet he's never put up a full season of 18-20g/40-50pts.

I think it absolutely realistic that he plays/contributes at a 20-25g/40-50pt pace through his next contract. That would be a jump from his career best years of 31pts and 18goals... so in that sense, putting together 2-4years consistently at his current "best" performances would reflect "untapped" production.

It's unlikely he ever becomes a 30g/60+ point player, so in that sense the ceiling is relatively established, the consistency, however, would be a marked improvement that while not a given, is quite realistic/possible given his age, work ethic and usage to date.

assuming he re-signs in Colorado, if he gets 15+min/night in that environment, i would bet his production next year sits on the high end of his ceiling (25g/50pts).

This is honestly ludicrous that people actually think this. You’ve watched him for 6 seasons. He does not have that potential and that has been abundantly clear.

 

[le_sean]

Kadri, Nazem... look him up. 31 this year and putting up double his career ppg pace.

Lek's already had "more" than 10-15 goal season, so it is false to say he can provide "nothing more".

Kadri was nearly at a PPG in 2012-13 and a 32 goal 60 point player in 2016-17. He’s also a former 7th overall pick. While this season is clearly an outlier, he’s shown offensive ability before. He didn’t go from one season of 30 points to this.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah he’s a 50 point player that we are holding back. Man you are drinking some serious Kool-Aid.

He’s a hard working player that does a lot of little things well defensively and kills PKs. He can also add 10-15 goals a season. Nothing more. He’s been in the league 6 seasons and is 27 soon.

15-20 goals and 40-50 pts. Don't spin it to belittle it

 

[Whitesnake]

I just want to add this....value for value...a very good trade was...Hammond for Schnarr. I mean...a goalie that was a 3rd string in the AHL, was acquired for a AHL enforcer for Laval, and you ship him back for a top 6 AHL C? That is still 23 years old (though I don't expect any NHL future...but still..). Very good deal that would be such a great help for your farm team at the very least.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Let's recap:

Out:

- Tyler Toffoli
- Ben Chiarot
- Brett Kulak
- Arthuri Lehkonen
- Andrew Hammond

In:

- CGY 2022 1st round pick (top 10 protected)
- CGY 2025 5th round pick
- FLA 2023 1st round pick (unprotected)
- NYR 2022 4th round pick
- EDM 2023 2nd round pick
- COL 2024 2nd round pick
- Justin Barron
- Ty Smilanic
- Emil Heineman
- Tyler Pitlick
- William Lagesson
- Nate Schnarr

CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY return.

Well done my good sir!

It's really good. I give Hughes an 'A'.

However, we are still a long, long way from competing. We have not torn down one rotten wall in the structure, just sold off the best furniture at good prices, since there was no need for it given the rotten walls.

This coming season, we have $59M tied up in 10 guys over $4.4M cap hit. Only two at most are worth their contracts.

Only one of the next four making around $3.5M each is worth his contract.

That's 11 weak walls they can't even hang paintings on.

Since no one would take these contracts off our hands, we had to sell off some of the best furniture we had (Toffoli, Lehkonen, Chiarot, Kulak - guys who can actually help teams looking to make a run) so that we aren't fined for being over the cap.

We are very, very far from being able to win consistently Maybe after we move out 5 of the 11 bad contracts.....

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is honestly ludicrous that people actually think this. You’ve watched him for 6 seasons. He does not have that potential and that has been abundantly clear.

While the numbers he offered may be generous, I don't think they're ludicrous. Lek always had talent. He'd make absolutely spectactular plays... he just didn't have the finish.

I'd expect him to put up 18 goals and 40 points per season. But there's upside. I could see him producing more. He's also going to a better team that'll be far more offensively talented than anything he's played on before. A lot of it will come down to usage.

 

[Miller Time]

Kadri was nearly at a PPG in 2012-13 and a 32 goal 60 point player in 2016-17. He’s also a former 7th overall pick. While this season is clearly an outlier, he’s shown offensive ability before. He didn’t go from one season of 30 points to this.

You mean kinda like Lek was a 18g player previously & .5ppg this year?

Kadri's best prior to this year was .7ppg for a season... this year is 1.3ppg. That's a far bigger jump than Lek has made this year, fyi

You're making the exact point that is being made about Lek that you seem to disagree with.

 

[Miller Time]

This is honestly ludicrous that people actually think this. You’ve watched him for 6 seasons. He does not have that potential and that has been abundantly clear.

What's ludicrous is assuming a 26yr old player who has repeatedly demonstrated offensive production ability above his career averages has no possibility of becoming more consistent during his prime years as a player.

What's abundantly clear is that there is nothing of substance to ground your take. Bad take.

 

[Kimota]

He only played three games - - after being stuck in the minors for years. That's not enough to change his value for a team to consider for a playoff run.

Hammond is what he is - - a warm body to fill in for a bottom feeder. His trade value is exactly what both the Habs and Devils paid - - a marginal minor leaguer. Expecting anything more is delusional.

Yea but when your goalies sucks you have to try all you can to give you a fighting chance. If I'm the Caps or Leafs, etc..., that's a gamble you have to take. Why not?

 

[Tripledeke333]

Let's recap:

Out:

- Tyler Toffoli
- Ben Chiarot
- Brett Kulak
- Arthuri Lehkonen
- Andrew Hammond

In:

- CGY 2022 1st round pick (top 10 protected)
- CGY 2025 5th round pick
- FLA 2023 1st round pick (unprotected)
- NYR 2022 4th round pick
- EDM 2023 2nd round pick
- COL 2024 2nd round pick
- Justin Barron
- Ty Smilanic
- Emil Heineman
- Tyler Pitlick
- William Lagesson
- Nate Schnarr

CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY return.

Well done my good sir!

Total value is more than 4 1st round picks IMO.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

It's really good. I give Hughes an 'A'.

However, we are still a long, long way from competing. We have not torn down one rotten wall in the structure, just sold off the best furniture at good prices, since there was no need for it given the rotten walls.

This coming season, we have $59M tied up in 10 guys over $4.4M cap hit. Only two at most are worth their contracts.

Only one of the next four making around $3.5M each is worth his contract.

That's 11 weak walls they can't even hang paintings on.

Since no one would take these contracts off our hands, we had to sell off some of the best furniture we had (Toffoli, Lehkonen, Chiarot, Kulak - guys who can actually help teams looking to make a run) so that we aren't fined for being over the cap.

We are very, very far from being able to win consistently Maybe after we move out 5 of the 11 bad contracts.....

It's a multi year project.

Next step is trading away Weber contract.
After that assessing Petry. (Maybe a 1 for 1 change of scenario move) or maybe we keep him.

Then next year TDL : we will have Drouin, Byron, Allen available for picks. We will also try to maximize their value. In the meantime, we will need to get more quality from the draft (consider trading up to get bluechip).

It's a couple years project. The best challenge is drafting and developing a new defensive squad and top goaltender.

I think this is why Hughes targeted Barron because he knows defenseman take longer to develop.

We currently have Romanov who has shown some flashes as top 4. Guhle, Mailloux and now Barron in the pipeline. We still need more quality at defense but it's looking a bit better.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Yea but when your goalies sucks you have to try all you can to give you a fighting chance. If I'm the Caps or Leafs, etc..., that's a gamble you have to take. Why not?

Because he's a 34 goalie who's spent the past 5 years in the minors. He's not worth the roster space on a playoff team.

 

[le_sean]

What's ludicrous is assuming a 26yr old player who has repeatedly demonstrated offensive production ability above his career averages has no possibility of becoming more consistent during his prime years as a player.

What's abundantly clear is that there is nothing of substance to ground your take. Bad take.

I do have substance: he’s a career 0.38 PPG player.

First three seasons: 0.36 PPG
Last three seasons: 0.39 PPG

Look at that fantastic progression! It looks like it might climb to 0.42 PPG from the age of 27-30 judging by this. That’s 34 points in 82 games. Unless you think the Avs will give him 4+ minutes a game on the PP with Makar, MacKinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's a multi year project.

Next step is trading away Weber contract.
After that assessing Petry. (Maybe a 1 for 1 change of scenario move) or maybe we keep him.

Then next year TDL : we will have Drouin, Byron, Allen available for picks. We will also try to maximize their value. In the meantime, we will need to get more quality from the draft (consider trading up to get bluechip).

It's a couple years project. The best challenge is drafting and developing a new defensive squad and top goaltender.

I think this is why Hughes targeted Barron because he knows defenseman take longer to develop.

We currently have Romanov who has shown some flashes as top 4. Guhle, Mailloux and now Barron in the pipeline. We still need more quality at defense but it's looking a bit better.

Weber's contract is awkward but not fatal, if he is injured.

Petry's seems to need an incentive to get taken. Or, do you suggest we go another year with him, and then take the $2.08M hit for 4 years to buy him out?

Drouin and Byron will only be on the books one more year as well. However, Caufield will be due a big raise in 2023, or 2024 latest. If he gets Suzuki money, it eats up all the Drouin/Byron Savings

So, do we hope Price retires or goes on LTIR and that will give us room for one star player to come in and support this young core, provided Allen-Monty can hold the fort?

You might be right that it is a multi-year project, to get to .500 ! And if that is the case, Bergevin should be unemployable.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I thought it was a good day for Hughes. Definitely a great improvement over the shitty deadlines we saw under Bergevin.

I will be curious as to what direction he takes in the summer.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Weber's contract is awkward but not fatal, if he is injured.

Petry's seems to need an incentive to get taken. Or, do you suggest we go another year with him, and then take the $2.08M hit for 4 years to buy him out?

Drouin and Byron will only be on the books one more year as well. However, Caufield will be due a big raise in 2023, or 2024 latest. If he gets Suzuki money, it eats up all the Drouin/Byron Savings

So, do we hope Price retires or goes on LTIR and that will give us room for one star player to come in and support this young core, provided Allen-Monty can hold the fort?

You might be right that it is a multi-year project, to get to .500 ! And if that is the case, Bergevin should be unemployable.

My hope is Price comes back and plays well.

I know everyone has written off that possibility but... the guy is still a freaking monster when he's healthy. With him, the younger players and prospects... who knows? We might even make the playoffs next year.

I'd still look to trade him (and it should be easier with a big bonus being paid out over the summer) but he's a half season removed from a cup run. If that knee is okay, the guy still has a lot of jam.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Miller Time]

I do have substance: he’s a career 0.38 PPG player.

First three seasons: 0.36 PPG
Last three seasons: 0.39 PPG

Look at that fantastic progression! It looks like it might climb to 0.42 PPG from the age of 27-30 judging by this. That’s 34 points in 82 games. Unless you think the Avs will give him 4+ minutes a game on the PP with Makar, MacKinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog.

Now do Kadri

again here, you are making the very point you seem to be arguing against...

a player has progressed, as you point out, from his first three to his last three years...
same player has, this season, further jumped his production (and by a relatively small amount, .39 to .5, not exactly an unsustainable increase).
same player is now moving to one of the best offensive team in the league, one with perhaps the most mobile and offensively inclined defense groups in the league...

and you think that this will require "4+min more a game on PP" to see him match the ppg pace he's put up this season, the bulk of which was under the DD black hole... lol

Just playing for the Avs is quite likely going to increase his ppg productivity by .5ppg or more... projecting that he'll only rise to .42ppg completely ignores the very impactful context/roster differences that are at play, not too mention that the improvement curve doesn't follow that neat distribution...
You seem to be ignoring both the impact of roster context and the question of whether he also improves his overall play, which is not at all unlikely or unreasonable for a player in the middle of his prime athletic years (especially one with an impeccable work ethic and who has displayed the skill set/tools to be more productive).

cut it however you want, it would be a FAR bigger surprise to see Lekhonen stay or drop in his career PPG pace over the next 3 seasons... that's far more unlikely going forward, barring injury, than seeing him match or improve on his productivity this season in his new environment.

 

[le_sean]

Now do Kadri

again here, you are making the very point you seem to be arguing against...

a player has progressed, as you point out, from his first three to his last three years...
same player has, this season, further jumped his production (and by a relatively small amount, .39 to .5, not exactly an unsustainable increase).
same player is now moving to one of the best offensive team in the league, one with perhaps the most mobile and offensively inclined defense groups in the league...

and you think that this will require "4+min more a game on PP" to see him match the ppg pace he's put up this season, the bulk of which was under the DD black hole... lol

Just playing for the Avs is quite likely going to increase his ppg productivity by .5ppg or more... projecting that he'll only rise to .42ppg completely ignores the very impactful context/roster differences that are at play, not too mention that the improvement curve doesn't follow that neat distribution...
You seem to be ignoring both the impact of roster context and the question of whether he also improves his overall play, which is not at all unlikely or unreasonable for a player in the middle of his prime athletic years (especially one with an impeccable work ethic and who has displayed the skill set/tools to be more productive).

cut it however you want, it would be a FAR bigger surprise to see Lekhonen stay or drop in his career PPG pace over the next 3 seasons... that's far more unlikely going forward, barring injury, than seeing him match or improve on his productivity this season in his new environment.

Very easy to take his production today after posting an unsustainable 8 points in 5 games shooting 46% in that timeframe. Talk at the end of the season where he likely dips to slightly above his average. I provided you stats on his production not increasing whatsoever in his 6 seasons but you want to argue there’s untapped potential, just because.

Oh it’s also a lost season. Easy to increase production with no expectations after 30 games. Like Galchenyuk and Erik Cole having amazing seasons when the team sucked then never replicated that ever again.

 

[Rapala]

You’re not arguing anything of substance then. So it’s literally impossible for a deal to ever be an overpayment or underpayment because that’s the price that was paid at the time? Makes zero sense.

So if we trade the 1st overall pick for Nikita Zaitsev in the summer, that’s fine, because that’s the price.

If what you get for an asset in the current moment is not substance I seriously don't know what is. I get the concept of overpayment and I also understand the principles of a volatile market. No one can say what Lehkonen is worth until he gets moved again. The value stamped on his forehead is what someone last paid for him. A comic book recently sold for millions if the Earth succumbs to a worldwide drought what will have more value to a thirsty human at that time the comic book or a glass of clean water. You are the one who decided to challenge the logic not me. Regarding Zaitsev we obviously wouldn't do that so you are building a straw hut for the big bad wolf to blow down. How can you equate something that did happen to something that never will.

 

[Runner77]

I don't think that Sakic got fleeced by Hughes. Sakic has a stacked talent-filled roster and is going all in and he felt he needed some extra pieces to compliment his team. We got a prospect and a pick, a prospect that may or may not make an impact at the NHL level, the same thing applies to the draft pick. Lehks was sought after because of what he brings to a team and because on a good team he is a depth player but he is an established NHLer. No one got fleeced.

Makes you imagine how advantageous it is to have a stacked minor league system, when a team like Colorado who is looking to go far in the playoffs, was able to add a key asset because of it. A fine blueprint for the Habs one day.

 

[Walksss]

Enough with the speculation,its mute. Comprehension issues much? I had preferences that did not come through,sue me. The return on the others was fine,as I said earlier but calling it the best deadline is to each their own opinion in accordance with ones own purview.

First, it's not mute it's moot. Secondly, to post all this negativity and expect people to just agree or say nothing about it is pretty self-righteous, this is a message board where people will respond to an unpopular opinion which seems rooted in unrealistic expectations.

Everyone who is a fan of this team would take a deal for Price, Gallagher, Armia and a few others just to get their contracts off the books, that is not a minority opinion. The problem is every single one of those is a garbage contract and there are almost no teams who are able to even look at Price's deal or Gallaghers due to their cap situations.

I assume the new management feels like I do which is they don't want to retain on salary for these guys for years and years. I don't blame them and neither should you, that would be trash. Which means they need to be very patient and only pursue these trades when there is the flexibility and cap liquidity in the market, that is most definitely in the off season. No contender has cap space in season, no non-contender is salivating over Price or Gallagher ever, how do you move any of these overpaid guys? Better yet how are you gonna fault HuGo for a fundamental league situation?

 

[Runner77]

I don't recall other years TDL,but if this is the best,the others must have been absolutely abysmal. Sure they got some decent returns but I would have much preferred moving some others out first as a priority.

Hughes was asked about that and he explained that the teams he was dealing with at this time, had little cap room and could not afford taking on big contracts. He also said that they had more calls about other players but those offers were not palatable.

A trading deadline where you deal only with contending teams, is not the best time to deal deadweight. We should see him make much more headway in the summer.