"Complain About Maclean" Superthread (Mod Note: STOP making more Maclean threads)

[DylanSensFan]

Tundra... cohesion? Come on now, give me a break. The reasons for firing MacLean are weak at best. We have too many ****ing passengers on this team. It starts with our leadership and trickles on down, just like the idiotic economic model of a republican.

We don't take a coach who has had two seasons of success and send him on his way because the players are idiots. Michalek for example? WTF? 6mill, how many goals? Spezza, how many defensive lapses? Neil, how many stupid penalties? Kassian goes in every once in a while and we **** on MacLean for it.

Toronto does not use our excuses, they have MacLaren, Orr and other tough guys who play and they still win games. They have injuries and stink a few games, but at least they stay in the playoff race. We have a ****ing bunch of ******* on this team. Starts with Spezza, and Phillips. To be honest I think they are both done. Phillips looks like an doofus when he is taking interviews, and lacks any real fire. All we get from the players are excuses... this has been the case for years, especially the core that has been here the longest. We should have started a complete rebuild in 2007 and built around the captain we let go. Should have got rid of Spezza, Heatley, Neil, and the rest after they floundered against the Ducks. I blame Melnyk for not seeing the need and trying to keep a status quo that was going nowhere.

We have not made a single friggen trade in this entire debacle, because Murray has been handcuffed and by extension, so has MacLean. This is completely Melnyks fault.

 

[Spez]

Why are people even arguing over Mac and whether or not he's going to be fired? News flash, he's not going to be fired. People can ***** all they want he's not going to be fired. Does it have to be said a million times? I'm laughing my ass off that there are posters here who honestly believe he's going to be fired. Same with anyone who thinks Murray will be fired or let go. Murray will be getting an extension unless he decides to hand the reins to Tim and ends up retiring or staying on as an advisor.

It's fair to debate about his decisions but the whole he should be fired is laughable. If he ever gets fired it won't be this year or the next. If HFboards existed back in the day I swear there probably would have been fire Martin threads every year they lost in the playoffs with all the knee-jerk reactions.

 

[bigray19]

He's not getting fired lol news flash, this is a hockey discussion board and there's nothing wrong with discussing why he should or shouldn't get fired.

 

[Spez]

It doesn't make any sense though to discuss his firing when you know it won't happen right now. I feel like it's a better point to debate his firing two seasons from now if they are still having these kinds of problems. It's just frustrating seeing Mac being ganged on when last year and the year before that he was treated like a king. There are way bigger issues than coaching anyways. Goaltending and D are the two huge ones right now.

If you want to blame something blame those two areas. It's not his fault that Anderson is stinking it up and that Lehner is not playing like a god. He can be blamed partially because of the D and the system but at the end of the day it's up to the players to execute it.

The change has to come primarily from the players. I wouldn't be opposed to having a few players shipped out and some youth from Bingo injected into the team to give it new life. It helped a lot the past couple seasons and even the last time when we missed the playoffs. You can argue Mac is too loyal to certain players but if this keeps up you will see changes made at the player level.

 

[SilverSeven]

I dont think he will be fired, but his winning percentage is lower than Cloustons the year he was fired.

As for people whining about leadership, does Mac not fall under that as well? I think its a giant cop out to blame all this teams troubles on the guy wearing the C

 

[John Holmes*]

All coaches get fired.

Mac WILL get fired. The only question is when.

 

[Spez]

Of course he will unless he manages to stay on for his whole contract and then the team chooses to not give him another contract. Just seems pointless to call for his firing now when you know it won't happen this season or the next. Melnyk can't afford to pay him to sit at home and pay another coach anyways. He's already had to do it with Paddock, Hartsburgh and Clouston.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

All coaches get fired.

Mac WILL get fired. The only question is when.

Unless your nickname is Killer.

 

[Magix]

He deserves every bit of criticism he is getting.

His undying love to the vets has cost us in the standings.

 

[Tuna99]

Maclean isn't the problem here, I genuinely believe in his brand of hockey, he hasn't been perfect but he's not the problem.

 

[Tundraman]

Of course he will unless he manages to stay on for his whole contract and then the team chooses to not give him another contract. Just seems pointless to call for his firing now when you know it won't happen this season or the next. Melnyk can't afford to pay him to sit at home and pay another coach anyways. He's already had to do it with Paddock, Hartsburgh and Clouston.

There are those who believe MacLean has been doing a great job from day one and are happy to see it continue. There are others who have come to realize that upon reexamination of events there were holes in his coaching style right from the beginning. Each year to some degree, the flaws were covered by his engaging public persona, other teams' stinking, at least 1 experienced Russian right D who was better than we thought, another who had a Norris season, a shortened season, over performing rookies in the absence of vets including Benoit and the goalies having career type years. Each season had it's own story to tell.

His coaching strategy may work in Detroit with tons of vets but it doesn't fit a team with a mixed bag like ours. I know we don't see everything they do on off days but every practice we've seen or that TSN1200 sits in on they practice breakouts from their zone or the now highly predictable point and side board one timer shots. I've yet to hear of them discuss anything about proper defensive coverage when those plays break down. There is a clear lack of strategy in all zones when the other team attacks in numbers and very little ability to adapt to changes has been displayed by our coaches during games. It's always move player x from line 3 or 4 to line 1 or overplay line 3. The line juggling minutes into the 1st period and from game to game is frankly ridiculous.

To those who think we should not be talking about firing MacLean, the discussion is more about why he should be fired rather than the less likely he will be fired soon. I'm sure you could add some reasons of your own as to why if you gave it some thought. Why have so many of you asked the same questions time and time again, why is that guy on the pk?, why is that guy on the pp?, why is he dressed? why is he not dressed? why is that guy toi so low?, why is that guy's toi so high?, why is that guy on the ice at that time, why did he not call a timeout?... (ok that's a weak one ) and on and on, just look at the GDT and PGT almost every game. What the heck do you think you are questioning? Those are all coaching decisions and you are doubting the strategies that are being employed in game situations!!!

I'm not saying everyone who questions certain decisions want Maclean fired sometimes it just means you'd like to understand the "why" a bit better but you are certainly raising some red flags with those questions.

Obviously, the final decision rests with Melnyk and Bryan Murray. It takes a lot of guts to make a mid-season coaching change especially when you just gave the guy an extension and he's so engaging with the media. We all know Melnyk will not want to absorb the cost but there is also a direct cost to doing nothing if they come to that conclusion. A large number of players would probably have to approach BM expressing the same sentiments before they'd even consider firing any of the coaches.

I highly doubt MacLean will be fired any time soon but that doesn't mean he shouldn't if things continue this way. Unless Maclean has a sudden epiphany and changes his basic "attack 1st" to a "defend 1st" philosophy I believe he should be fired because he doesn't understand the type of players he has to work with. It's high time for Bryan Murray and MacLean to have a serious heart to heart about the future coaching style this team will employ. That would either lead to on-ice changes or eventually one of them will leave. I don't see any future in the status quo.

 

[John Holmes*]

Unless your nickname is Killer.

I guess you blocked out the Islanders days?

 

[supsens]

Maclean is fine, his two big 'game breakers', Spezza and Karlsson are killing the team this year. Risk reward players with twice the risk as reward

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Pageau was seemingly on every 2nd shift in the 2nd period. He played pretty well. Not great but solid (or was it just me?). Then gets 2 shifts in the 3rd with Kassian. wtf? Mac is just all over the place, up and down, hot and cold (actually not hot at all).

Smith/Neil/Greening is total failure and he keeps going to it. Condra on the 1st line

It's getting embarrassing.

Pageau and Conacher get the same treatment. It is near impossible for them to get their games in order. Conacher 3 game point streak the 7 minutes next game. I not going to go through this vet rookie thing again

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I guess you blocked out the Islanders days?

Yes.

And he wasn't head coach there anyway.

 

[supsens]

Pageau and Conacher get the same treatment. It is near impossible for them to get their games in order. Conacher 3 game point streak the 7 minutes next game. I not going to go through this vet rookie thing again

dude 2 of those assists came off of plays where his team passed him the puck he misses the pass it bounces of his body then the sens recover the puck and score, he didn't do a lot to earn those points, you can click the link at the nhl site and watch his last 2 assists, they were goals despite of him not because of him. If he had not stick and had his eyes closed he would have got those 2 points


I have no idea how to insert video but I tried

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Unless Maclean has a sudden epiphany and changes his basic "attack 1st" to a "defend 1st" philosophy I believe he should be fired because he doesn't understand the type of players he has to work with.

Think it might be you that you that doesn't understand the type and experience of players he has to work with.

Its nice to talk about having a defensive first philosophy, its quite another to convert attack first players to be two-way contributors, or magically inject years of experience into 19 - 25 year olds.

The team is feeling the pressure, for many it is a growing experience, but the key fir the team is to limit the mental errors something the players haven't been able to achieve.

There is no system that can fix lack of experience and/or mental errors, NONE.

For two years many of these guys were having fun in an environment of low expectations, they were pesky and enjoying the role.

This changed this year, there is pressure to win and perform.

Players have to learn how to deal with the lows, to trust the system and their team mates, not just the individual's talents.

Its a learning process and it usually takes time.

While I can relate to the frustration watching this team self-destruct many nights, what isn't understandable is how MacLean gets blamed for the failure of the players.

Fact is the fix isn't simple, the process takes time and not every player is going to pass the up coming tests.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

dude 2 of those assists came off of plays where his team passed him the puck he misses the pass it bounces of his body then the sens recover the puck and score, he didn't do a lot to earn those points, you can click the link at the nhl site and watch his last 2 assists, they were goals despite of him not because of him. If he had not stick and had his eyes closed he would have got those 2 points


I have no idea how to insert video but I tried

First assist nice pass to Michalek last assist he kicked over to Corvo while get hit from behind. But if you say so OK he deserves to be sat.


You are missing my point though, what kind of message does this send. This is about building confidence in a player so he will produce better results. What signal does it send when -21 Michalek stays in the lineup ? This has been my problem with the coaching the same vets get all the opportunity and they keep under performing.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Think it might be you that you that doesn't understand the type and experience of players he has to work with.

Its nice to talk about having a defensive first philosophy, its quite another to convert attack first players to be two-way contributors, or magically inject years of experience into 19 - 25 year olds.

The team is feeling the pressure, for many it is a growing experience, but the key fir the team is to limit the mental errors something the players haven't been able to achieve.

There is no system that can fix lack of experience and/or mental errors, NONE.

For two years many of these guys were having fun in an environment of low expectations, they were pesky and enjoying the role.

This changed this year, there is pressure to win and perform.

Players have to learn how to deal with the lows, to trust the system and their team mates, not just the individual's talents.

Its a learning process and it usually takes time.

While I can relate to the frustration watching this team self-destruct many nights, what isn't understandable is how MacLean gets blamed for the failure of the players.

Fact is the fix isn't simple, the process takes time and not every player is going to pass the up coming tests.

You put forth a good argument I still think Stache relies on his vets too much though

 

[OttawaOilers]

Should shave his mustache.

MAYBE WE'LL WIN A FREAKIN' GAME!

 

[HockeySens]

Im a big Maclean fan but he has made some questionable decisions.

Playing Andy when he came back from injury and Lehner was playing well

Constant line juggling

Phillips on the pp

Playing Gryba

Putting Condra on Spezza's line and Zibanejad in the 4th line

Playing the same goalies back to back many times even though it never worked

Sitting Methot when he was ready

Putting Greening-Smith-Neil to start a game or right after the team scores a goal. I mean why is that line even allowed to play in the nhl?

Best players play my ass. More like your old so you get to play

Terrible line changes(this might be on the assistant coaches)

Dressing Kassian and playing him less than 5 minutes. WTF? Just dress someone who can actually help the team if your not gonna have Kassian play

 

[Holdurbreathe]

You put forth a good argument I still think Stache relies on his vets too much though

I appreciate how you feel and agree with you on occasion.

However it is not all that surprising a coach sticks with the veterans, generally speaking these are the guys that can lead the team in the right direction.

Then of course there is the other side to be considered, which of the young players have shown they are ready to be difference makers?

IMO Cowen recently, likewise Zinabejad and now Ceci. MacLean recognized their contribution and has rewarded each of them.

Fact is Weircoich, Conacher, and Pageau are all growing and I see positives in each of their games, but each shows a significant weakness in an area this team already has issues, playing defense.

So it is very difficult for MacLean to fit these guys in higher up in the lineup when in many cases he is already trying to offset this weaknesses amongst the vets.

I would hope this changes should the Sens fall completely out of the playoff race, but I don't expect it will happen before then.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Im a big Maclean fan but he has made some questionable decisions.
Playing Andy when he came back from injury and Lehner was playing well

Constant line juggling

Phillips on the pp

Playing Gryba

Putting Condra on Spezza's line and Zibanejad in the 4th line

Playing the same goalies back to back many times even though it never worked

Sitting Methot when he was ready

Putting Greening-Smith-Neil to start a game or right after the team scores a goal. I mean why is that line even allowed to play in the nhl?

Best players play my ass. More like your old so you get to play

Terrible line changes(this might be on the assistant coaches)

Dressing Kassian and playing him less than 5 minutes. WTF? Just dress someone who can actually help the team if your not gonna have Kassian play

There isn't a coach in the world that isn't second guessed by the fans of the team the second a game is lost.

For each of your points there is a logical response, here's just a sample.

Line changes on the fly are the players responsibility, lack of focus by the players is the fault here.

Condra is on the Spezza line because he is the most defensively oriented forward and Spezza needs the help. Why do think MacArthur was moved to his line, after just about every other linemate possible was given an opportunity?

Kassian isn't hurting the fourth line and he is a physical presence. While I don't like to see Conacher sitting, I don't believe this swap is a big deal from a team performance perspective.

Sitting Methot after he just returned from illness, instead of breaking up the D that had just beaten St Louis was a no brainer, nor in any way shape or form responsible for what happened in New Jersey. Methot was in the lineup against Florida, was the result different??

I could go on, but it serves no purpose.

If you want to blame the coach for players that aren't executing, making bad decisions night after night, that's your choice, enjoy.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

I appreciate how you feel and agree with you on occasion.

However it is not all that surprising a coach sticks with the veterans, generally speaking these are the guys that can lead the team in the right direction.

Then of course there is the other side to be considered, which of the young players have shown they are ready to be difference makers?

IMO Cowen recently, likewise Zinabejad and now Ceci. MacLean recognized their contribution and has rewarded each of them.

Fact is Weircoich, Conacher, and Pageau are all growing and I see positives in each of their games, but each shows a significant weakness in an area this team already has issues, playing defense.

So it is very difficult for MacLean to fit these guys in higher up in the lineup when in many cases he is already trying to offset this weaknesses amongst the vets.

I would hope this changes should the Sens fall completely out of the playoff race, but I don't expect it will happen before then.

The young guys you mention Zibby, Cowen, and Ceci are all first rounders that are the cream of the crop. The other guys Conacher, Pageau, Weir, and Gryba are guys that are your "bonus boys", guys that if developed in a proper fashion can pay big dividends. I understand playing the vets these are the guys you have big money invested in, but at what point do you say enough is enough ? Are you sacrificing development time to these guys and some Bingo guys (Stone, Hoffman, Boro) in order to cater to the "entitled" veterans on this team ?

 

[Icelevel]

I'm on the train. Now I complain.

But what about the guy who hires the coaches.
I'm over it now but I was pretty upset when kleinendorst was shown the door.
BM, you make bad decisions.
Let Tim take over already. Although I'm not even sure he'd want to at this pt.