Common Sense Line-up for 2014-2015

[Frk It]

I'm puzzled at your belief that they want to blow that extra $1m in cap space for next season.

I'm puzzled as to why they gave him the bonus option to begin with....Or a contract.

But yes, I think they'll find a way for him to get it. Nothing about it is rational or logical, when it comes to Cleary. They're all about giving him things he doesn't deserve: money, ice time, etc.

 

[GrimWings]

Based on an article I read recently about Jurco on ******, his play increases the possesion stats of everyone he plays with, except for Riley Sheahan. So unless he can be the big body with Dats and Z, I don't think he cracks the lineup. I don't like Cleary, but if he can play better than he did last year, his veteran presence on the Kid line with Tats and Shedog would be the best bet.

Lineup without Alfie will be:

Z-Dats-Abby/Mothra
Mule-Mr.Groin-Gus
Tats-Shedog-Clearlybad
Millertime-Speedy-Glendening
Andersson

Kronwalled-Smith
DDK-Ericsson
Quincey-Kindl
Lashoff

Howard
Monster

With Alfie, Abby boots Miller off the fourth line and we get the top veteran line who will score 300 goals in the 50 games they play

 

[Frk It]

Based on an article I read recently about Jurco on ******, his play increases the possesion stats of everyone he plays with, except for Riley Sheahan.

How does this ^^^

So unless he can be the big body with Dats and Z, I don't think he cracks the lineup.

Lead you to this ^^^ ????

That article points out that 99% our team did better with Jurco, meaning you can play him basically anywhere, and with anyone.

He's not pigeon-holed to only being successful with certain linemates, and certain opportunities, which is what it sounds like you are saying.

 

[SirloinUB]

I am interested in seeing who plays the point on the top PP unit if Alfie doesn't come back.
Could we see this?

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Zetterberg - Kronwall

Does Smith finally get a chance on the PP?

 

[GrimWings]

That article points out that 99% our team did better with Jurco, meaning you can play him basically anywhere, and with anyone.

He's not pigeon-holed to only being successful with certain linemates, and certain opportunities, which is what it sounds like you are saying.

The second line is almost certainly set with Franzen Weiss and Nyquist, he is not going to play on the fourth line for a certain. He makes everyone better, but makes Sheahan worse. So the third line should not be an option. I'm a huge Jurco fan, but to me it seems like common sense that it is top line, or GR to start.

 

[Frk It]

I am interested in seeing who plays the point on the top PP unit if Alfie doesn't come back.
Could we see this?

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Zetterberg - Kronwall

Does Smith finally get a chance on the PP?

If that was a unit, then I would do the following for the 2nd

Tatar-Weiss-Sheahan (net front)
Kindl/Kid-Smith

 

[Frk It]

The second line is almost certainly set with Franzen Weiss and Nyquist, he is not going to play on the fourth line for a certain. He makes everyone better, but makes Sheahan worse. So the third line should not be an option. I'm a huge Jurco fan, but to me it seems like common sense that it is top line, or GR to start.

I don't think so, for a couple reasons.

1) Jurco makes the 3rd line better, than whoever else you would play there.
2) Jurco has chemistry with Sheahan and Tatar, so it's a natural fit to play that as your 3rd line. That is a legit scoring line, and with all of them still developing, has potential to take off.
3) Don't think it's a fact that 1st line in GR is better for your development than 3rd line in DET. A ton of things factor into that, and I think both would be beneficial in their own right for Jurco.

Given #1 and #2 though, think it would be a good move to let him play in the big league and grow.

 

[GrimWings]

I don't think so, for a couple reasons.

1) Jurco makes the 3rd line better, than whoever else you would play there.
2) Jurco has chemistry with Sheahan and Tatar, so it's a natural fit to play that as your 3rd line. That is a legit scoring line, and with all of them still developing, has potential to take off.
3) Don't think it's a fact that 1st line in GR is better for your development than 3rd line in DET. A ton of things factor into that, and I think both would be beneficial in their own right for Jurco.

Given #1 and #2 though, think it would be a good move to let him play in the big league and grow.

I agree with your points, although Babcock is a) Gonna hire an advanced stats guy and is going to notice the problem with possession on the third line (considering we are THE possession team this might be a problem) and b) is going to want to give Cleary the veteran a chance over Jurco the rookie.

I want Jurco on the team more than everyone except Z and D, but I don't think its realistic that what I want is going to happen unfortunately. If it does, well pleasant surprise.

 

[sakei]

Honestly I'm not very excited for this season. Cleary playing more than 9 games in the NHL is inexcusable. Q shouldn't be on the team either. I'm just going to accept a line-up of something like:
Z-Dats-Alfie
Goose-Weiss-Franzen
Tats-Helm-Abdelkader
Cleary-Glendenning-Miller

Better line-up:
Z-Dats-Alfie
Goose-Helm-Franzen
Tats-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Glendenning-Abdelkader

Imagine if between now and next season Holland embraces the youth and this is our line-up:
Z-Dats-Mantha
Goose-Sheahan-Tats (who else thinks Tats' nickname should be Maverick?)
AA-Helm-Jurco
Franzen-Nosek-Pulk
Miller-Glendenning=depth
Buyout:Weiss

Kronner-#1 RH D we trade for
DK-Sproul
Smith-Marchenko
Lashoff-Kindl-Q=Depth

Mrazek
Gustavsson

Trade: we trade Howard, Ericsson and Abdelkader for that #1 RH D, and a couple of prospects to refill our system.
While off topic a bit, sorry, if somehow this is the lineup we're posting in this thread next year, I'll be ecstatic.

HAHAHAHA ARE YOU SERIOUS..
first of all. Miller is way more important to this team than many think. Top PK guy and works hard every night. if he goes out of our lineup, we get worse. guaranteed. then, I love Mantha, but admittedly he's still a bit away from being an NHL player. But I think he should be our first/second F call up, depending on the type of player we need and how Jurco does back in GR. AA's speed is the only plus at the moment, I dont see any other possibility for a 4th rounder to make the team right out of juniors. Franzen is already a lazy **** in the second line, so why should we put him in a 4th line checking role... Nosek is far from ready, he hasnt even played one game on a smaller surface. Pulk has a rocket of a shot but playing him on the fourth line is stupid.

I would love to see our D consist of that many young guys, but that wont happen unless Deke and Smitty make a HUGE step forward this year and we can rely on them to guide the prospects. (also, Q played a solid second half of the season).

Weiss played through an injury and had a terrible season. Give him a chance to show his skills, I'm sure he will be a better player this year.

AND IF YOU FIND THE GM WHO TRADES YOU A #1D with a right-hand shot for Howie, Big E, Abby and some throw-ins.... you should be KH's suitor as our GM. that will NEVER EVER happen. you cant get a ferrari by trading it for your bicycle and a bag of chips. BUF was in a position, where they could have traded Tyler Myers and they wanted a 1st, Mantha and Jurco/Nyquist/Tatar(young roster player, preferably a winger) in return. Abby has little to no value, Big E's value is also very limited and Howie is a great goaltender, but most of the teams are set between the pipes.

EDIT: sorry, only just saw that you proposed the lineup for the 2015 season. still unlikely tho.

 

[Run the Jewels]

So nobody sees Jurco cracking the opening day roster? I feel right now he's a 40-50 point player (based of his recent production). Just doesn't make sense?

He'll get Nyquisted. The few of us that were paying attention last offseason knew that the Cleary signing bumped Gus back down to Grand Rapids. Meanwhile Kenneh was on with Mickey and Ken talking about how "Tatar would still be on the roster". It was clear right then that our GM was fully on top of his roster and had a laser-like focus on icing the best NHL team.

So I fully expect Jurco to get demoted through no fault of his own until an injury occurs. Then he'll get called up and be one of our best forwards and people will wonder why he wasn't on the team to start the season.

 

[Frk It]

I agree with your points, although Babcock is a) Gonna hire an advanced stats guy and is going to notice the problem with possession on the third line (considering we are THE possession team this might be a problem) and b) is going to want to give Cleary the veteran a chance over Jurco the rookie.

I want Jurco on the team more than everyone except Z and D, but I don't think its realistic that what I want is going to happen unfortunately. If it does, well pleasant surprise.

Sorry, I think I got what you want versus what you are expecting mixed up.

I'm expecting Jurco to get Nyquist'd, but I would like him to be on the team as well.

 

[GrimWings]

What I want is

Z-Dats-Jurco
AA-Weiss-Nyquist
Tats-Sheahan-Mothra
Abby/Miller-Helm-Glendening

55-2
DDK- Marchenkenofezutov
Kindl- Ericcson

People may get down on AA but he'd be less streaky than Mule and can move the puck faster, plus his speed and skill would make him a good PK specialist like Helm. Then we could move Miller out and give Abby a line to play on.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So nobody sees Jurco cracking the opening day roster? I feel right now he's a 40-50 point player (based of his recent production). Just doesn't make sense?

If Alfredsson resigns then No, If Alfredsson decides to retire then possibly Yes depending on what Babcock does decide to do at the forward position

 

[Pavels Dog]

He'll get Nyquisted. The few of us that were paying attention last offseason knew that the Cleary signing bumped Gus back down to Grand Rapids. Meanwhile Kenneh was on with Mickey and Ken talking about how "Tatar would still be on the roster". It was clear right then that our GM was fully on top of his roster and had a laser-like focus on icing the best NHL team.

So I fully expect Jurco to get demoted through no fault of his own until an injury occurs. Then he'll get called up and be one of our best forwards and people will wonder why he wasn't on the team to start the season.

It's still such a different circumstance though. Nyquist was 100% only kept in GR because of cap reason and lack of a roster spot, Jurco is younger and less experienced, and we have a lot less dead-weight on our roster now. I still think Jurco can learn things in the AHL and I don't think our team lives and dies depending on Jurco.

 

[Frk It]

I don't think our team lives and dies depending on Jurco.

Who knows. A team who was very lucky to make the playoffs the last 2 years, could probably stand to ice the best possible lineup for 82 games.

Not bury young talent behind crap players.
Had we kept Nyquist down for another month, we probably don't make the playoffs last year.
Why play with fire, just ice the best team and let the depth players come in if guys get hurt. Play the best players. We always hear it, let's actually see that for once.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It's still such a different circumstance though. Nyquist was 100% only kept in GR because of cap reason and lack of a roster spot, Jurco is younger and less experienced, and we have a lot less dead-weight on our roster now. I still think Jurco can learn things in the AHL and I don't think our team lives and dies depending on Jurco.

I dunno, he fully proved he is NHL caliber. He was better than Bert, Sammy and Cleary last year. A third line of Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco would give us really solid scoring depth. If you extrapolate Jurco's goal total from last year over an 82 game season that's 18 goals. IMO we can use that type of goal scoring depth on our roster.

 

[InjuredChoker]

if it's for alfie that jurco goes down, i'm ok with it. i think they'd bring similar level of scoring. alfie's RH shot is also needed on pp. i don't think babs would play abdelkader as 4th liner.

if weiss sucks, jurco gets his chance. and with injuries.

if jurco goes down for cleary... that's just BS.

 

[odin1981]

Too soon to guess until camp happens. But we all know babs. So we can basically figure out certain lines because of that. Examples include:

If z and dats are split up z gets all the good talent dats gets stuck with ****.

Abby is a top 6 forward (not really but babs).

Cleary will be on the roster game 1 and will be in the top 9. Which will kill the third line because it becomes a pk line. I pray it is only the third line he is on. If he is on a top 6 line it better not last more than half a period or my heart will explode.

With last year in the books after about 10 games our third line should become the gr line and do well.


X factors: Does Mantha kill it in camp? Does alfie have one more season in him? Do any of our four top defensive prospects kill it in camp and unseat someone in our bottom 3rd pairing (doubt they will sit a kid instead of using lashoff as 7th)?

 

[ricky0034]

Based on an article I read recently about Jurco on ******, his play increases the possesion stats of everyone he plays with, except for Riley Sheahan. So unless he can be the big body with Dats and Z, I don't think he cracks the lineup. I don't like Cleary, but if he can play better than he did last year, his veteran presence on the Kid line with Tats and Shedog would be the best bet.

Lineup without Alfie will be:

Z-Dats-Abby/Mothra
Mule-Mr.Groin-Gus
Tats-Shedog-Clearlybad
Millertime-Speedy-Glendening
Andersson

Kronwalled-Smith
DDK-Ericsson
Quincey-Kindl
Lashoff

Howard
Monster

With Alfie, Abby boots Miller off the fourth line and we get the top veteran line who will score 300 goals in the 50 games they play

I wonder what effect Cleary's play would have on Sheahan's possesion stats

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I wonder what effect Cleary's play would have on Sheahan's possesion stats

Think Kindl and Lashoff, but as a forward, but worse. Cleary's been a terrible hockey player for 2 years now. A possession black hole.

 

[joe89]

if it's for alfie that jurco goes down, i'm ok with it. i think they'd bring similar level of scoring. alfie's RH shot is also needed on pp. i don't think babs would play abdelkader as 4th liner.

if weiss sucks, jurco gets his chance. and with injuries.

if jurco goes down for cleary... that's just BS.

The writing is right there on the wall. The only thing saving Jurco now is if Alfie doesn't sign.

 

[Frk It]

The writing is right there on the wall. The only thing saving Jurco now is if Alfie doesn't sign.

I think he could get sent down either way.

Legitimately think Cleary could go on line 3 with Tatar, if Alfredsson retires. And Jurco could get sent down regardless.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think he could get sent down either way.

Legitimately think Cleary could go on line 3 with Tatar, if Alfredsson retires. And Jurco could get sent down regardless.

The only way that jurco would be sent down, If Alfredsson does'nt resign and retires. Would be if Babcock goes with another forward. Because once both Tatar and Dekeyser resign Detroit's at it's 23 man limit.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

The writing is right there on the wall. The only thing saving Jurco now is if Alfie doesn't sign.

Exactly.

 

[sakei]

Top6:
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Cleary
Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist

Babs loves Cleary and wants a tough guy on the Euro Twins line. If Cleary doesnt get that spot, Babs will put Abby on the first line. Weiss deserves a chance and doesnt belong in the bottom6, Franzen is a lazy ****, but probably wont get bumped out of the top6.

Bottom6:
Tatar - Sheahan - Abdelkader
Miller - Helm - Glendening
extra: Andersson, Callahan

Sheahan produced and isnt suited for a fourth line role imo. This is why I expect Helm to center the fourth line with Miller and Glendening. Andersson would provide bottom6 C depth, while Helm or Sheahan could move up in case of an injury in our top6. Callahan could replace a bottom6 winger.

Defense:
Kronwall - Smith
DeKeyser - Quincey
Ericsson - Kindl
extra: Lashoff/Ouellet

Smith and Kronner could be a great pairing and it could help Smiths development. I favor Kindl over Lash/Ouellet because he *could* provide offense. If he plays ****, he gets to see the press box very soon.

Goaltenders:
Howard
Gustavsson