Common Sense Line-up for 2014-2015

[Yemack]

datsyuk with (the past two years)

abdelkader - goals for: 61.9% corsi for: 56.7%
alfie - goals for: 61.9% corsi for: 59.6%
franzen - goals for: 61.1% corsi for: 59.7%
nyquist - goals for: 66.7% corsi for: 60.3% (71.4% and 64.5% respectively, if we go back 3 years)
brunner - goals for: 66.7 % corsi for: 57.0%

not really seeing how abdelkader has improved puck possession. goals for and against rate is similar as it was with alfie and franzen but the sample size is pretty small so corsi is usually the better predictor. datsyuk has basically identical corsi, whether he's with or without abdelkader. if abdelkader were good at winning board battles and retrieving pucks, this should show up in corsi. it doesn't.

can you explain to me what this 'corsi' is? I keep forgetting what it actually represents

 

[InjuredChoker]

can you explain to me what this 'corsi' is? I keep forgetting what it actually represents

all shot attempts (missed, blocked, shots on goal). proxy for puck possession. not perfect but the best we have.


i'd be very much fine with good puck retriever on the line but i don't think abby is one. i'd also be fine with abdelkader being there if they tried someone like nyquist there for extended period of time and it would be clear it doesn't work.

 

[Frk It]

all shot attempts (missed, blocked, shots on goal). proxy for puck possession. not perfect but the best we have.


i'd be very much fine with good puck retriever on the line but i don't think abby is one. i'd also be fine with abdelkader being there if they tried someone like nyquist there for extended period of time and it would be clear it doesn't work.

What would your ideal lineup look like? One that goes along with this philosophy...

 

[Frk It]

Id be curious to see what loading the top 6 would result with...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Franzen
Abdelkader-Helm-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Joker/Nesty

 

[Yemack]

all shot attempts (missed, blocked, shots on goal). proxy for puck possession. not perfect but the best we have.


i'd be very much fine with good puck retriever on the line but i don't think abby is one. i'd also be fine with abdelkader being there if they tried someone like nyquist there for extended period of time and it would be clear it doesn't work.

If I remember Babcock tried Nyquist before. The problem is that, other skilled guys CAN work well for brief period time. I mean, playing with D and Z is like hitting a jackpot. I'm sure they are motivated as hell for a game or two or maybe longer.

But over the course of 82 games, against other teams top pairing and shut down units, it just is not ideal and it wears on D and Z as well if someone is not doing the heavy lifting. Besides, IMO it's little bit of waste putting another prime scoring threat with D and Z. Datsyuk and Z like to hold on to puck and the other guy prolly will see the puck less.

Obivously you dont want someone who can ONLY provide heavy forechecking but I think Abby has matured over the years and can provide little bit of playmaking/scoring/chemistry on that line.

If the line doesnt perform for troubling amount of time, I'm all for change but I'm just pointing out possible reasons behind such 'madness' of Babcock.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Id be curious to see what loading the top 6 would result with...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Franzen
Abdelkader-Helm-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Joker/Nesty

something like that.

it depends on helm though. it's early but he doesn't look like the player he was couple of years ago. if that third line can't consistently score or at least win the battle against other teams bottom 6 lines, it hurts our depth bad. jurco doesn't look like player who could drive that line. franzen could be tried there but he's not going to score consistently either or even be threat to do that.. so if it doesn't work, but abby back on the top line.

one top 6 F who is preferably RH and sniper or good puck retriever, would go a long way.

i'm not having any real hopes for weiss at this point.

maybe jurco or mantha could be the guy next season but that's then.

 

[Flowah]

datsyuk with (the past two years)

abdelkader - goals for: 61.9% corsi for: 56.7%
alfie - goals for: 61.9% corsi for: 59.6%
franzen - goals for: 61.1% corsi for: 59.7%
nyquist - goals for: 66.7% corsi for: 60.3% (71.4% and 64.5% respectively, if we go back 3 years)
brunner - goals for: 66.7 % corsi for: 57.0%

not really seeing how abdelkader has improved puck possession. goals for and against rate is similar as it was with alfie and franzen but the sample size is pretty small so corsi is usually the better predictor. datsyuk has basically identical corsi, whether he's with or without abdelkader. if abdelkader were good at winning board battles and retrieving pucks, this should show up in corsi. it doesn't.

What are the numbers for just this year? Abby wasn't really all that productive last season with Datsyuk, but I'd say that so far he's made some great strides in his game. He is definitely losing the puck less and protecting it better in the o-zone. And obviously his rate of production is much much higher.

Tough to say whether it's just a fluke or a sign of the future. I like what I see this year though, even before last game where he scored 2+1, he was looking good (or at least better) and I know I'm not alone in that assessment.

 

[InjuredChoker]

If I remember Babcock tried Nyquist before. The problem is that, other skilled guys CAN work well for brief period time. I mean, playing with D and Z is like hitting a jackpot. I'm sure they are motivated as hell for a game or two or maybe longer.

But over the course of 82 games, against other teams top pairing and shut down units, it just is not ideal and it wears on D and Z as well if someone is not doing the heavy lifting. Besides, IMO it's little bit of waste putting another prime scoring threat with D and Z. Datsyuk and Z like to hold on to puck and the other guy prolly will see the puck less.

Obivously you dont want someone who can ONLY provide heavy forechecking but I think Abby has matured over the years and can provide little bit of playmaking/scoring/chemistry on that line.

If the line doesnt perform for troubling amount of time, I'm all for change but I'm just pointing out possible reasons behind such 'madness' of Babcock.

well i don't think it's madness from babcock. playing cleary would be madness but having abby there isn't that bad option. i'd just like to see other options tried.

i'm afraid that they have to do too much dump and chasing with abdelkader there as he can't enter the zone well. zetterberg isn't as magical in that area as he used to be.

but anyway, this sin't the biggest issue with this team. if i could get guarantee that zetterberg and datsyuk stay healthy for rest of the season i'd be ok with abby being their linemate.

 

[InjuredChoker]

What are the numbers for just this year? Abby wasn't really all that productive last season with Datsyuk, but I'd say that so far he's made some great strides in his game. He is definitely losing the puck less and protecting it better in the o-zone. And obviously his rate of production is much much higher.

Tough to say whether it's just a fluke or a sign of the future. I like what I see this year though, even before last game where he scored 2+1, he was looking good (or at least better) and I know I'm not alone in that assessment.

those stats aren't available for this year. they are usually posted after the season ends.

so far the sample is way too small to draw any conclusions anyway.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

well i don't think it's madness from babcock. playing cleary would be madness but having abby there isn't that bad option. i'd just like to see other options tried.

i'm afraid that they have to do too much dump and chasing with abdelkader there as he can't enter the zone well. zetterberg isn't as magical in that area as he used to be.

but anyway, this sin't the biggest issue with this team. if i could get guarantee that zetterberg and datsyuk stay healthy for rest of the season i'd be ok with abby being their linemate.

Keep in mind Abdelkader did spend a decent amount of time having his line with Datsyuk impacted by Cleary. He also played with Franzen a great deal, so it is interesting that their numbers seem pretty similar. I have long championed Franzen away from Datsyuk.

We will see, I think Abdelkader has been far better this year in terms of valuing the puck and is playing his role extremely well. I will be curious to see the results around the mid-point or a little farther along if he keeps playing with him. Gator looked good with Z too, he has got out of the gate impressively. Lets hope he keeps it up.