Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[Mbraunm]

Is Maurice... a good coach?

These last two games have been a shock to my system.

I think that strategically (F3 up, Zone coverage, special teams, finally changing the D-men pairings) the credit goes to Mark Lowry-for all his time here, Maurice NEVER made these necessary adjustments. He is a poor strategist.

However, Maurice deserves credit for getting the entire team to buy in as a whole - that counts for a lot!

 

[Whileee]

That’s what happens when you finally play zone and your forwards buy into NZ coverage.

Next step is realizing that DeMelo is a top 4 D...

Kind of interesting that Maurice went to Morrissey-DeMelo for the playoffs. I kind of wonder if Maurice was using DeMelo to help develop Stanley. Clearly, the playoff pairings are the ones that Maurice thinks are best overall, but maybe he now has much more confidence in Stanley than he did earlier in the season.

 

[Whileee]

No Ehlers or Dubois game 1 , we win. No Ehlers game 2 , we win. Not a great defense by any means and we have shutdown the best player in the NHL and probably the 3rd best player in the NHL. I think Maurice is doing a very good job right now and i really think the players like playing for him. Keep it up Jets.

Yup. Ehlers is one of the most important possession / impact players in the NHL, so winning a couple without him is big. The Jets had a good game plan, and their D certainly have tightened up in the playoffs. Also, not surprisingly, Scheifele has really amped up his D zone play. Lots more low support on zone exits.

 

[Whileee]

I think that strategically (F3 up, Zone coverage, special teams, finally changing the D-men pairings) the credit goes to Mark Lowry-for all his time here, Maurice NEVER made these necessary adjustments. He is a poor strategist.

However, Maurice deserves credit for getting the entire team to buy in as a whole - that counts for a lot!

I don't think any of us have any idea where the credit lies for the various coaching strategies and decisions, but I'd bet that Maurice had a huge role. He doesn't seem like the type to defer big decisions. But it's not all that surprising that his critics blame him for poor decisions and credit others for good decisions.

 

[Whileee]

The question I have is why did it take them so long to realize this and change it up on the big team. A good many of us have been advocating for more of a zone/overload system for a long time here. We have all touched on how such a system would really help our team get the puck out cleaner and quicker. I am glad we have moved in this direction and as we strengthen the defense the system should yield even more positive defensive results but I can't believe it took a good almost two years of awful play to make Maurice adapt it. I don't know if its Lowry's influence or not, but I wouldn't be surprised given how our PK transformed overnight under him if he was the brains behind the change.

When you have a season playing just 6 other teams, it makes some sense to make adaptations for the playoffs.

I find it really unlikely that they just overhauled their entire system in a couple of practices before the playoffs. Seems more likely that they've worked on variations and implemented a different system / look for the playoffs. Also, the D pairing decisions seem calculated. I wonder if the Jets knew they were likely going to have to develop a young D or two, and thought DeMelo would be the right partner. He's steady and very vocal on the ice.

However they've come to this, they seem to have caught the Oilers a bit off-guard, and Stanley looks steady now, even with Poolman as a partner.

 

[surixon]

I don't think any of us have any idea where the credit lies for the various coaching strategies and decisions, but I'd bet that Maurice had a huge role. He doesn't seem like the type to defer big decisions. But it's not all that surprising that his critics blame him for poor decisions and credit others for good decisions.

Well of course as head coach he is involved in the major decision making and has final say. But I think it's pretty clear that Lowry has had some influence on tactics and systems this year. We are using a completely different PK scheme then we did for years under Moe. It changed about a month or two into this season and the only different variable is Lowry joining the staff.

Lowry is a coach Maurice has wanted on his staff for a while now so maybe he's more likely to trust his insights and judgements leading to him being convinced to do some things differently.

in the end I don't care how the change ce about we are playing a better defensive and PK scheme and that is having an impact on team success. We just need to rejig our offensive systems, this team still seems disjointed on our cycle. We continually seem unsure where the support is going to be and often cycle the puck wrong way. My guess is they haven't spent enough time in practice on it.

 

[Mbraunm]

I don't think any of us have any idea where the credit lies for the various coaching strategies and decisions, but I'd bet that Maurice had a huge role. He doesn't seem like the type to defer big decisions. But it's not all that surprising that his critics blame him for poor decisions and credit others for good decisions.

Good point. That being stated, Maurice has provided us with a long and reliable precident. Not until Lowry arrived did we begin to see changes to the systems which Maurice had cemented in place for years This isn’t guess work.

That being stated, Maurice has been the key to ensure complete buy-in. This has always been his strength-great communication and high EQ when dealing with the players.

 

[Whileee]

Good point. That being stated, Maurice has provided us with a long and reliable precident. Not until Lowry arrived did we begin to see changes to the systems which Maurice had cemented in place for years This isn’t guess work.

That being stated, Maurice has been the key to ensure complete buy-in. This has always been his strength-great communication and high EQ when dealing with the players.

Did you watch the 2014/15 and 2017/18 versions of the Jets?

I think it's likely that Lowry has had a role, but it seems likely that the Jets specifically wanted him to revise systems. For some reason fans seem to think coaches have no clue about how different coaches deploy different systems. Maurice would have had a very clear understanding of Lowry's systems and approaches, and bringing him in indicates he wanted the Jets to move in a specific direction.

 

[surixon]

When you have a season playing just 6 other teams, it makes some sense to make adaptations for the playoffs.

I find it really unlikely that they just overhauled their entire system in a couple of practices before the playoffs. Seems more likely that they've worked on variations and implemented a different system / look for the playoffs. Also, the D pairing decisions seem calculated. I wonder if the Jets knew they were likely going to have to develop a young D or two, and thought DeMelo would be the right partner. He's steady and very vocal on the ice.

However they've come to this, they seem to have caught the Oilers a bit off-guard, and Stanley looks steady now, even with Poolman as a partner.

It very well could be that but I'm a bit skeptical based on how long we've stuck with M2M when it was clearly not working. Poolman had always been decent when played in an appropriate role for his skill so no real surprise that pairing is having some success.

I would buy the need to develop a young dmen angle had Moe looked like that was going to be his plan heading into the season. He loaded up on vets instead and only played Logan as much as he did due to a long term vet injury. Having said that it seems Tree has now fully earned Maurices trust and if a young player does that to the coaches credit that player stays in the lineup.

Anyhow I'm less concerned about the long term health of our dcore given Stanley's emergence as a possible plus third pairing PK dmen. Pionk's very good play on our second pairing and Morrissey really finding his game again. He's looked like that first pairing all around dmen he was a couple of years ago these playoffs. We get another two plus top 4 dmen abs we move DeMelo to the third pair with Stanley and we are set imo.

 

[Whileee]

Well of course as head coach he is involved in the major decision making and has final say. But I think it's pretty clear that Lowry has had some influence on tactics and systems this year. We are using a completely different PK scheme then we did for years under Moe. It changed about a month or two into this season and the only different variable is Lowry joining the staff.

Lowry is a coach Maurice has wanted on his staff for a while now so maybe he's more likely to trust his insights and judgements leading to him being convinced to do some things differently.

in the end I don't care how the change ce about we are playing a better defensive and PK scheme and that is having an impact on team success. We just need to rejig our offensive systems, this team still seems disjointed on our cycle. We continually seem unsure where the support is going to be and often cycle the puck wrong way. My guess is they haven't spent enough time in practice on it.

Maurice would have had a deep knowledge of Lowry's systems. It's not like Lowry showed up and said "hey Paul, here's an idea you've never seen before. Let's try it."

If Lowry had a very different style, then Maurice wanted to bring that style and adapt it.

 

[surixon]

Maurice would have had a deep knowledge of Lowry's systems. It's not like Lowry showed up and said "hey Paul, here's an idea you've never seen before. Let's try it."

If Lowry had a very different style, then Maurice wanted to bring that style and adapt it.

Well that seems to be Moe's MO according to Murat, not much of an in inovator but poaches other people's ideas. I have said on more the one occasion that I have no issue keeping him around if he's more open to changing his schemes to something that is better tailored for this roster. What we are doing now in the dzone is a much better fit for this team and it has had an impact in us getting the puck out cleaner and quicker.

If he has recognized that Lowry brings a set of schemes and skills our team has needed and given him some autonomy to implement them then I am good with that. It is what a good manager does, they bring in good talent and give them the resources to succeed.

 

[ecolad]

The question I have is why did it take them so long to realize this and change it up on the big team. A good many of us have been advocating for more of a zone/overload system for a long time here. We have all touched on how such a system would really help our team get the puck out cleaner and quicker. I am glad we have moved in this direction and as we strengthen the defense the system should yield even more positive defensive results but I can't believe it took a good almost two years of awful play to make Maurice adapt it. I don't know if its Lowry's influence or not, but I wouldn't be surprised given how our PK transformed overnight under him if he was the brains behind the change.

Obviously nobody can answer this. My guess is that it took until now for Maurice to firmly draw the line with the team leadership and insist that all the forwards had to make a commitment to a disciplined defensive zone system, even if it meant forgoing offensive opportunities .[ Pretty sad if this guess is accurate and nothing was done earlier, but that`s another point altogether]

If memory serves, this ream struggled in it`s end from the earliest days, even when we had a superior D group.This was imo because of the loose play of our entire forward group on our half of the ice; however, we glossed things over by occasionally defaulting to a m2m in short term in-game situations to help restore order when things got really chaotic. Over time, the m2m was used more and more often as the go-to system, and it became cemented in place after 2028/19 season end, with the changeover to a weaker D. This began a 2 year period where imo Maurice simply went overboard and erred on the side of simple, risk-averse approach to hockey in every zone. His unwillingness to draw the line with his team leaders left him with no ability to implement a disciplined zone coverage system.

This is the only perspective that makes much sense - it surely cannot be possible that Maurice did not recognize the shortcomings of the m2m and the problems his roster had in trying to execute. Once he secured the buy-in of the leadership, all of his coaching staff were probably pleased to implement and coach the boys up.

 

[surixon]

Obviously nobody can answer this. My guess is that it took until now for Maurice to firmly draw the line with the team leadership and insist that all the forwards had to make a commitment to a disciplined defensive zone system, even if it meant forgoing offensive opportunities .[ Pretty sad if this guess is accurate and nothing was done earlier, but that`s another point altogether]

If memory serves, this ream struggled in it`s end from the earliest days, even when we had a superior D group.This was imo because of the loose play of our entire forward group on our half of the ice; however, we glossed things over by occasionally defaulting to a m2m in short term in-game situations to help restore order when things got really chaotic. Over time, the m2m was used more and more often as the go-to system, and it became cemented in place after 2028/19 season end, with the changeover to a weaker D. This began a 2 year period where imo Maurice simply went overboard and erred on the side of simple, risk-averse approach to hockey in every zone. His unwillingness to draw the line with his team leaders left him with no ability to implement a disciplined zone coverage system.

This is the only perspective that makes much sense - it surely cannot be possible that Maurice did not recognize the shortcomings of the m2m and the problems his roster had in trying to execute. Once he secured the buy-in of the leadership, all of his coaching staff were probably pleased to implement and coach the boys up.

That's a good theory, it could very well be that. If we can get the forwards to see the benefit of strong team defense then it allows the coaches to build things that will help the offensive ontop of it. Strong defensive schemes and a commitment to team defense doesn't mean you need to sacrifice offense to get it. Perhaps some players have a hard time wrapping their heads around that concept but being able to get a stop quickly and being able to move the puck pit quickly and cleanly should lead to more speed in transition and more zone time.

Granted we have a more restrictive offensive scheme in place for McDavid and Drai and I think that is appropriate for this series but we have the potential to get a more aggressive forecheck going against moat other teams.

Given what I remember this team only had one elite year in terms of defensive metrics and that was our stacked 17-18 year. We were decidedly middle of the pack to slightly worse most other years prior to the last two.

 

[WolfHouse]

I don't think any of us have any idea where the credit lies for the various coaching strategies and decisions, but I'd bet that Maurice had a huge role. He doesn't seem like the type to defer big decisions. But it's not all that surprising that his critics blame him for poor decisions and credit others for good decisions.

Holy man. This is a stretch - I have to call you on this one...

when our D sucked the Mo crew blamed Huddy or blamed Chevy for not providing personnel to Maurice so his system could work...

now we change to a zone D that works - a system we have NEVER tried in seven years - we see Lowry actively coaching the PK and D - and you kind of give full credit to Maurice haha cmon

I’ll give Maurice credit for bringing in Lowry and putting him in charge of first our PK and now our D - probably saved his job

 

[Mbraunm]

Did you watch the 2014/15 and 2017/18 versions of the Jets?

I think it's likely that Lowry has had a role, but it seems likely that the Jets specifically wanted him to revise systems. For some reason fans seem to think coaches have no clue about how different coaches deploy different systems. Maurice would have had a very clear understanding of Lowry's systems and approaches, and bringing him in indicates he wanted the Jets to move in a specific direction.

I agree with you here. I think we are stating the same thing.

You are stating that Maurice brought in Lowry to make necessary systemic changes. I agree with that.

I am simply crediting Lowry as being responsible for making these changes-changes which Maurice (who is not an Xs and Os coach) could not make.

 

[ecolad]

That's a good theory, it could very well be that. If we can get the forwards to see the benefit of strong team defense then it allows the coaches to build things that will help the offensive ontop of it. Strong defensive schemes and a commitment to team defense doesn't mean you need to sacrifice offense to get it. Perhaps some players have a hard time wrapping their heads around that concept but being able to get a stop quickly and being able to move the puck pit quickly and cleanly should lead to more speed in transition and more zone time.

Granted we have a more restrictive offensive scheme in place for McDavid and Drai and I think that is appropriate for this series but we have the potential to get a more aggressive forecheck going against moat other teams.

Given what I remember this team only had one elite year in terms of defensive metrics and that was our stacked 17-18 year. We were decidedly middle of the pack to slightly worse most other years prior to the last two.

Yes, I think we can reasonably expect that we will adopt once again a more aggressive forecheck - similar to what we saw in 2017/18. We maybe don`t have quite the same individual player types and it will not quite have the physicality dimension, but the tactics will be the same (reduce time and space). I think we have to be cautious with being too aggressive with the Oil given who they have in net.Smith is an excellent puck handler and can be a major factor

 

[10Ducky10]

Regarding Maurice and how he plays his D pairings and apologies if this has been discussessed already but maybe he was playing Stanimal with DD to learn the game from a journeyman D man?

While that has been going on, maybe he played Poolman on the first pairing because he didn't want to pair him with Forbort and Stanimal might not have learned as well/much if paired with Poolman?
Now, in the playoffs he has played DD with JMO and moved Poolman back to the 3rd pairing and is starting Stanimal. Was this the plan all along?

Forbort probably had his best game this season so I will give some deserved credit to him on last night's play.

 

[WolfHouse]

Regarding Maurice and how he plays his D pairings and apologies if this has been discussessed already but maybe he was playing Stanimal with DD to learn the game from a journeyman D man?

While that has been going on, maybe he played Poolman on the first pairing because he didn't want to pair him with Forbort and Stanimal might not have learned as well/much if paired with Poolman?
Now, in the playoffs he has played DD with JMO and moved Poolman back to the 3rd pairing and is starting Stanimal. Was this the plan all along?

Forbort probably had his best game this season so I will give some deserved credit to him on last night's play.

Mo clearly stated this early in the season so it’s not really up for debate... that and demelo was getting up to speed after the birth of his kid

however it just went on too long... poolman needed to be replaced on the top pairing halfway through the season - luckily poolman injury forced Mo’s hand

 

[10Ducky10]

What did he state?

 

[Jets 31]

Holy man. This is a stretch - I have to call you on this one...

when our D sucked the Mo crew blamed Huddy or blamed Chevy for not providing personnel to Maurice so his system could work...

now we change to a zone D that works - a system we have NEVER tried in seven years - we see Lowry actively coaching the PK and D - and you kind of give full credit to Maurice haha cmon

I’ll give Maurice credit for bringing in Lowry and putting him in charge of first our PK and now our D - probably saved his job

And the Maurice haters blamed Maurice for everything, every line adjustment, every defense pairing, even playing Helly too much in a short 56 game season. I can't imagine the credit another head coach would be getting right now if they were playing the Oilers and after 2 games McJesus and Dri didn't have 1 single point, not 1 .

 

[WolfHouse]

What did he state?

That DeMelo was on the third pairing to mentor Stanley

 

[WolfHouse]

And the Maurice haters blamed Maurice for everything, every line adjustment, every defense pairing, even playing Helly too much in a short 56 game season. I can't imagine the credit another head coach would be getting right now if they were playing the Oilers and after 2 games McJesus and Dri didn't have 1 single point, not 1 .

I am not apologizing for ranting about Beaulieu on our first pairing haha...

Either way, the adjustments have been made that many of us were begging for and it’s working.

what I will give Mo full props on is Toninato-Thompson-Lewis line... never seen a fourth line shut down McDavid like that - they are playing smart vet hockey

 

[LowLefty]

And the Maurice haters blamed Maurice for everything, every line adjustment, every defense pairing, even playing Helly too much in a short 56 game season. I can't imagine the credit another head coach would be getting right now if they were playing the Oilers and after 2 games McJesus and Dri didn't have 1 single point, not 1 .

There were a ton of adjustments made that led to where we are now.
Many of them could have been part of the plan if we are prepared to give the coach any credit.

This D group were not ready to play zone D earlier in the season - they were already struggled with an easier M2M system.
Zone is tough in that you need to be quick and confident in adjusting to your assignment - shifting off from player to player is not easy and with the D compliment we had, would likely turn into a tangled mess out there.

Our D, in general, are better players at this point - including guys like JoMo, Poolman, and Stanley - they are in a better position to play zone at this point and that appears to be the case. I'd give coaching in general, the props that are due - assuming Mo worked with his D coach through the season.

Some will assume Mo fell into the result and he gets no credit - others will assume there was a plan in play from the beginning.
You can argue either side until you are blue in the face but you don't really know how this all came to be.

Sometimes you need to adapt to systems by working with the players that actually have to execute that system - calling out for a change is easy - understanding the underlying points (personnel, ability, or the stage a player is in their growth) - that's not nearly as easy unless you are part of the coaching squad.

 

[surixon]

There were a ton of adjustments made that led to where we are now.
Many of them could have been part of the plan if we are prepared to give the coach any credit.

This D group were not ready to play zone D earlier in the season - they were already struggled with an easier M2M system.
Zone is tough in that you need to be quick and confident in adjusting to your assignment - shifting off from player to player is not easy and with the D compliment we had, would likely turn into a tangled mess out there.

Our D, in general, are better players at this point - including guys like JoMo, Poolman, and Stanley - they are in a better position to play zone at this point and that appears to be the case. I'd give coaching in general, the props that are due - assuming Mo worked with his D coach through the season.

Some will assume Mo fell into the result and he gets no credit - others will assume there was a plan in play from the beginning.
You can argue either side until you are blue in the face but you don't really know how this all came to be.

Sometimes you need to adapt to systems by working with the players that actually have to execute that system - calling out for a change is easy - understanding the underlying points (personnel, ability, or the stage a player is in their growth) - that's not nearly as easy unless you are part of the coaching squad.

Or a new assistant who has a history of running that dzone system came in and sold the head coach on its merits and it was eventually implemented.

I dont agree that our defense is better able to execute it now then earlier, it just looks that way because they look much better in this system then they did playing straight M2M. It was only two weeks or so ago that we looked awful aging m2m in the regular season. Also I have a hard time agreeing m2m is easier imo it is much more difficult and physically taxing on the player. All of these players will have significant experience playing a zone hybrid in various leagues growing up. It is actually incredibly rare for any team to use a heavily weighted M2M hybrid system which imo is one of the reasons our players had such an issue with it. It is a scheme many aren't overly familiar with.

 

[LowLefty]

Or a new assistant who has a history of running that dzone system came in and sold the head coach on its merits and it was eventually implemented.

I dont agree that our defense is better able to execute it now then earlier, it just looks that way because they look much better in this system then they did playing straight M2M. It was only two weeks or so ago that we looked awful aging m2m in the regular season. Also I have a hard time agreeing m2m is easier imo it is much more difficult and physically taxing on the player. All of these players will have significant experience playing a zone hybrid in various leagues growing up. It is actually incredibly rare for any team to use a heavily weighted M2M hybrid system which imo is one of the reasons our players had such an issue with it. It is a scheme many aren't overly familiar with.

Like I said, there are several ways to look at it -