Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

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JetsUK

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Maybe not just those who "defend" Maurice...
View attachment 436952

Reposting some articles on coaching changes and impact from May 5th.

Also, like many here, I do not consider PoMo to be a "Neanderthal," and I have rarely seen that opinion offered by informed fans or pundits. Most analysts and pundits I've read seem to regard him as an excellent communicator and perhaps limited tactician who deserves credit for the work he has done with the team but may not be the answer going forward.

And it's worth noting that the view that coaches are "mostly" interchangeable is based on limited analysis and data -- there isn't a large pool of peer-reviewed experiments or studies available, despite the penetration of the idea that coaches are crucial components of team performance. So what does "mostly" mean? Some coaches are worth the investment; some aren't. Most here would consider that swapping Claude Noel for Paul Maurice as interim and later head coach of the Jets made a positive difference -- the team got fitter, became more structured, and developed a style of hockey that exploited team strengths and addressed longstanding weaknesses. So why shouldn't we expect a similar positive impact with a coach replacing PoMo with a very different team?

I think this thread has contained some carefully thought-out and nuanced takes on coaching evaluation and directions that are well beyond the FIRE MAURICE THAT JABRONI!!! PGT complaints. I'm not sure it's as simple as a debate between enlightened sophisticates (Maurice supporters) and uninformed reactionaries (those arguing for a different, more modern or at least more tactically diverse coaching staff).

Is Changing the Coach Really the Answer? - Freakonomics

What does all this mean? Henry Abbott – of ESPN’s True Hoop – suggested in 2008 that the argument that NBA coaches don’t tend to change player productivity indicated that coaches could be replaced with “deck chairs.” These studies, though, don’t indicate that teams are better off without a coach. That is because none of these studies looked at a team with and without a coach. What these studies did is look at teams or players with different coaches and failed to find much of a difference. That suggests that coaches in sports are not very different from each other. It may be true (and more than likely very true) that you are better off with a professional coach than with a random person grabbed from the stands (or no one at all). But it doesn’t appear that the choice of professional coach matters much.
 

Ducky10

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It means that I think there isn't that much difference between NHL coaches, or even potential coaches. Or at least, the differences are exaggerated by fans and pundits.

Just wanted to note that I never referred to anyone as a Neanderthal. I wrote that many fans and pundits think that Maurice is a Neanderthal.
Is it exaggerated? I think it’s people just voicing their opinion on what they feel Maurice’s shortcomings are. Let’s face it, the man has had an unusually long career for someone who has never won anything. Not convinced he gets the most out of what he has. I don’t think the standings are an indication that he does. The team needs a fresh set of eyes more than anything. Longevity can lead to blind spots and things getting stale. The team has been playing the same way for a few years now, it seems stale to me. It’s not change for change sake, it’s change because it’s time to try a fresh approach with a fresh set of eyes. Staying the course is easy, but unlikely to work at this point imo.

Your comment was that those calling Maurice an idiot and a Neanderthal was more a reflection of them, not the caricature. Subtle, but not that subtle.
Anyway, GJG.
 
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WolfHouse

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It means that I think there isn't that much difference between NHL coaches, or even potential coaches. Or at least, the differences are exaggerated by fans and pundits.

Just wanted to note that I never referred to anyone as a Neanderthal. I wrote that many fans and pundits think that Maurice is a Neanderthal.
I guess no coach should ever be fired then...
 
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Whileee

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I guess no coach should ever be fired then...
I think some coaches genuinely wear out their welcome or their relationship with the players, GM, fans, etc. Also, the NHL is entertainment and sometimes change can add to the entertainment (consider how excited everyone gets at the TDL).

If anyone reviewed my posting history, they would find many, many critiques of Maurice's decisions. I've said I think Maurice will be "on the clock" next season, assuming Chevy overhauls the D as I expect. So, I'm not averse to criticizing Maurice per se.

But I also tend to be a bit of a contrarian, since it can balance out discourse and provide counterpoint to popular takes.
 
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WolfHouse

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I think some coaches genuinely wear out their welcome or their relationship with the players, GM, fans, etc. Also, the NHL is entertainment and sometimes change can add to the entertainment (consider how excited everyone gets at the TDL).

If anyone reviewed my posting history, they would find many, many critiques of Maurice's decisions. I've said I think Maurice will be "on the clock" next season, assuming Chevy overhauls the D as I expect. So, I'm not averse to criticizing Maurice per se.

But I also tend to be a bit of a contrarian, since it can balance out discourse and provide counterpoint to popular takes.
If he gets the team to stick with the same zone system tonight, I’ll be a lot less anti maurice for sure...
 

Jets 31

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No Ehlers or Dubois game 1 , we win. No Ehlers game 2 , we win. Not a great defense by any means and we have shutdown the best player in the NHL and probably the 3rd best player in the NHL. I think Maurice is doing a very good job right now and i really think the players like playing for him. Keep it up Jets.
 

surixon

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Now if we fix our defense in the offseason we have a good base in the hybrid zone defense to build a good breakout and transition system on top of it. It may allow us to get back to that aggressive 2-1-2 forecheck we employed back in 17-18. Incorporate more 5 man rotation in the offensive end and I think we are poised to get back to being a major contender.

This team knows how to dial it up in the playoffs with the amount of experience we have now.
 

Jack7222

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Now if we fix our defense in the offseason we have a good base in the hybrid zone defense to build a good breakout and transition system on top of it. It may allow us to get back to that aggressive 2-1-2 forecheck we employed back in 17-18. Incorporate more 5 man rotation in the offensive end and I think we are poised to get back to being a major contender.

This team knows how to dial it up in the playoffs with the amount of experience we have now.


I've wanted to see a new coaching direction for a while now, but one thing you can say for Maurice is the players always seem willing to play for him. I don't know if the defensive scheme we're running in the playoffs is him or Lowry (...Huddy?) but I'm warming to the idea of Mo as head coach with some stronger assistants to provide strategic focus.
 

ecolad

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Jets have had a good plan, and they were all dialled in. Kind of shocking how well a D featuring Forbort, Poolman and Stanley has managed the challenges the Oilers present.

Just reflect on how much things have changed as this team has entered the playoffs:
* they have seemed to abandon the infamous m2m D in their zone and are playing what appears to be a more traditional zone D strong-side overload. The advantage of this will rally show up when they are attempting to break up a low cycle, one of their current weaknesses.
* this zone is MUCH better suited to Forbert, Poolman, Stanley.
* the pairings are finally much better (dropping this nonsense of big/little guy), with DeMelo now on top pairing and Poolman back to 3rd pairing per their skillsets.
* as a result of the change in D, they are in much better position to initiate breakouts when they get puck control.
* they have finally eased off on the imperative to beat a retreat to deep into their end and "collapse around the house" whenever they lose the puck, and are now trying to move their entire 5 man unit forward somewhat ,to better close gaps and pressure. And importantly, they are being far more aggressive with finishing their checks and taking the body rather than stick checking. The D still do not aggressively close down on attempted zone entries but there are signs thatthis may be changing a little as well.
* they have totally abandoned the conservative, full on collapsing box that served as their PK in favor of something much more aggressive. It may actually be more of a Diamond formation now than a Box .

In many respects we should look forward to the Jets playing even better game by game as they become more accustomed to these not-insignificant changes.
 

surixon

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Just reflect on how much things have changed as this team has entered the playoffs:
* they have seemed to abandon the infamous m2m D in their zone and are playing what appears to be a more traditional zone D strong-side overload. The advantage of this will rally show up when they are attempting to break up a low cycle, one of their current weaknesses.
* this zone is MUCH better suited to Forbert, Poolman, Stanley.
* the pairings are finally much better (dropping this nonsense of big/little guy), with DeMelo now on top pairing and Poolman back to 3rd pairing per their skillsets.
* as a result of the change in D, they are in much better position to initiate breakouts when they get puck control.
* they have finally eased off on the imperative to beat a retreat to deep into their end and "collapse around the house" whenever they lose the puck, and are now trying to move their entire 5 man unit forward somewhat ,to better close gaps and pressure. And importantly, they are being far more aggressive with finishing their checks and taking the body rather than stick checking. The D still do not aggressively close down on attempted zone entries but there are signs thatthis may be changing a little as well.
* they have totally abandoned the conservative, full on collapsing box that served as their PK in favor of something much more aggressive. It may actually be more of a Diamond formation now than a Box .

In many respects we should look forward to the Jets playing even better game by game as they become more accustomed to these not-insignificant changes.

The question I have is why did it take them so long to realize this and change it up on the big team. A good many of us have been advocating for more of a zone/overload system for a long time here. We have all touched on how such a system would really help our team get the puck out cleaner and quicker. I am glad we have moved in this direction and as we strengthen the defense the system should yield even more positive defensive results but I can't believe it took a good almost two years of awful play to make Maurice adapt it. I don't know if its Lowry's influence or not, but I wouldn't be surprised given how our PK transformed overnight under him if he was the brains behind the change.
 

WolfHouse

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The question I have is why did it take them so long to realize this and change it up on the big team. A good many of us have been advocating for more of a zone/overload system for a long time here. We have all touched on how such a system would really help our team get the puck out cleaner and quicker. I am glad we have moved in this direction and as we strengthen the defense the system should yield even more positive defensive results but I can't believe it took a good almost two years of awful play to make Maurice adapt it. I don't know if its Lowry's influence or not, but I wouldn't be surprised given how our PK transformed overnight under him if he was the brains behind the change.
This is 100% Lowry - he’s played this style of zone overload for his whole career... same as our PK, hard on the puck and aggressive now
 

surixon

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This is 100% Lowry - he’s played this style of zone overload for his whole career... same as our PK, hard on the puck and aggressive now

I am not super familiar with his coaching style so I'll take your word for it. If he's taken over the defense from Huddy as well as our PK then all the better.
 
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WolfHouse

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I am not super familiar with his coaching style so I'll take your word for it. If he's taken over the defense from Huddy as well as our PK then all the better.
He used this with Hockey Canada but Laine and bigger ice defeated it... it’s just the right scheme for the right times now
 

surixon

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He used this with Hockey Canada but Laine and bigger ice defeated it... it’s just the right scheme for the right times now

Well that was probably the best team Finlad has ever sent so no real shame in loosing to it. It was a hard fought game from what I recall.
 
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