Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

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pockets

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Bro most of you don't even wanna give up that shit... its like every one of your prospects and players are untouchable unless its like Jost or something, even then Avs fans will say he costs too much. Avs should just stick with their team as is, since the fans can't stand losing a single asset from the org even for an upgrade to their team.
Besides Byram and Newhook, which is actually quite reasonable, what other players have Avs' fans said were untouchable in a trade for Giroux? On the flip side, a 34 year old playoff rental is not going to net you 2 high-end prospects and a 1st, that shit just doesn't happen in the cap era.
 

Price is Wright

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I'm not advocating that the avs should or would make that trade, but regarding the bolded- Let's turn this around: when's the last time a rental of Girouxs stature has been available?

St. Louis and Iginla come to mind. The Iginla trade downright sucked. St. Louis trade was also a lot of pressure and one team to negotiate with so both had their own reasons.
 
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pockets

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I'm not advocating that the avs should or would make that trade, but regarding the bolded- Let's turn this around: when's the last time a rental of Girouxs stature has been available?
Look at what Mark Stone got Ottawa, and that deal essentially came with an 8-year extension for Vegas, yet some people here are asking for more than that for a playoff rental.
 

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He was also in the middle of a season where he was less than half a PPG, and had scored two goals.

Giroux is putting up just shy of a PPG on a team that's just as bad as Hall's Sabres were.

You do realize Taylor Hall was traded as a UFA rental twice right?

When he was in the middle of a Half PPG season, he returned a 2nd round pick. That's it.
 

Starat327

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St. Louis and Iginla come to mind. The Iginla trade downright sucked. St. Louis trade was also a lot of pressure and one team to negotiate with so both had their own reasons.

St. Louis is the one that came to mind for me. Iginla was a bad deal, but he also blocked a trade to...Boston I think, Originally?

I'm certainly not of the mindset thay Giroux doesn't control his destiny, but im also not of the mindset that Giroux will five Fletcher one team and thays it, either. Obviously if he does, that will impact the return.

But Giroux, Despite being 34 ( I see you all throwing around his age disingenuously as though he isn't playing at an elite level on both sides of the puck despite being on a garbage team), is playing exceptional level hockey still. His age at this point, in terms of his status as a rental, means nothing.
 

Starat327

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You do realize Taylor Hall was traded as a UFA rental twice right?

When he was in the middle of a Half PPG season, he returned a 2nd round pick. That's it.

Yes, I'm aware. I assumed calling out the initial trade to Arizona wasn't really applicable here, as were talking about actual deadline deals.
 

Starat327

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Look at what Mark Stone got Ottawa, and that deal essentially came with an 8-year extension for Vegas, yet some people here are asking for more than that for a playoff rental.

You realize that "coming with an 8 year extension" isn't ideal for all teams, right? Sure, Vegas wanted that. But there's also value to some/most teams in having a player not under contract past this season.

Longer contracts aren't always a bonus.
 

John Johnson

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Besides Byram and Newhook, which is actually quite reasonable, what other players have Avs' fans said were untouchable in a trade for Giroux? On the flip side, a 34 year old playoff rental is not going to net you 2 high-end prospects and a 1st, that shit just doesn't happen in the cap era.
There was a poster arguing that Foudy and Behrens(?) are basically off the table because they've "played beyond their draft position. I've never heard of these prospects until today and I keep pretty well up to date with team prospects. But I'll bite just because I haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they can't be good. I look up Foudy, pedestrian numbers 2 years running in the AHL. I look up Olausson, pedestrian numbers in the OHL. You even replied to a poster asking what else the Flyers add if they take out Foudy and add Olausson to the trade. Like what? I honestly wouldn't these prospects for free and my teams prospects cupboard is bare.
 

Ararana

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There was a poster arguing that Foudy and Behrens(?) are basically off the table because they've "played beyond their draft position. I've never heard of these prospects until today and I keep pretty well up to date with team prospects. But I'll bite just because I haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they can't be good. I look up Foudy, pedestrian numbers 2 years running in the AHL. I look up Olausson, pedestrian numbers in the OHL. You even replied to a poster asking what else the Flyers add if they take out Foudy and add Olausson to the trade. Like what? I honestly wouldn't these prospects for free and my teams prospects cupboard is bare.

The craziest posters are always the loudest. Every prospect [excluding Byram and Newhook] and every pick should be available. The time has never been better for the Avs to go all in, and Giroux is the perfect piece to complete their forward group.
 

wankstifier

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There was a poster arguing that Foudy and Behrens(?) are basically off the table because they've "played beyond their draft position. I've never heard of these prospects until today and I keep pretty well up to date with team prospects. But I'll bite just because I haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they can't be good. I look up Foudy, pedestrian numbers 2 years running in the AHL. I look up Olausson, pedestrian numbers in the OHL. You even replied to a poster asking what else the Flyers add if they take out Foudy and add Olausson to the trade. Like what? I honestly wouldn't these prospects for free and my teams prospects cupboard is bare.

Foudy's pretty young for the AHL. Behrens has had a good season with Denver. They both seem to have good NHL upside.
 

pockets

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There was a poster arguing that Foudy and Behrens(?) are basically off the table because they've "played beyond their draft position. I've never heard of these prospects until today and I keep pretty well up to date with team prospects. But I'll bite just because I haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they can't be good. I look up Foudy, pedestrian numbers 2 years running in the AHL. I look up Olausson, pedestrian numbers in the OHL. You even replied to a poster asking what else the Flyers add if they take out Foudy and add Olausson to the trade. Like what? I honestly wouldn't these prospects for free and my teams prospects cupboard is bare.
Neither of them should be untouchable, and Olausson isn’t untouchable either but he’s not even a full season removed from being a 1st round pick for the Avs at a position of weakness, so his value may be more to the Avs than other teams given their situation. For that reason I personally think he has a good amount more value than Foudy and wouldn’t include him in a trade that already has Behrens and a 1st without something else coming back. Either way, only looking at stats doesn’t give you the full picture of any player’s development.
 
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John Johnson

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Neither of them should be untouchable, and Olausson isn’t untouchable either but he’s not even a full season removed from being a 1st round pick for the Avs at a position of weakness, so his value may be more to the Avs than other teams given their situation. For that reason I personally think he has a good amount more value than Foudy and wouldn’t include him in a trade that already has Behrens and a 1st without something else coming back. Either way, only looking at stats doesn’t give you the full picture of any player’s development.
Thats fair if these prospects mean more to your team than another team, its just some fans don't know that unless someone like you explains why they want to hold on to their prospects for certain reasons. I also agree that stat watching is not a good way of interpreting how good a player is, thats why a lot of Canucks fans are trying to explain why JT is so valuable being more than just a ppg C. I just did because I had nothing else to go off of really.
 

Richard88

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There was a poster arguing that Foudy and Behrens(?) are basically off the table because they've "played beyond their draft position. I've never heard of these prospects until today and I keep pretty well up to date with team prospects. But I'll bite just because I haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they can't be good. I look up Foudy, pedestrian numbers 2 years running in the AHL. I look up Olausson, pedestrian numbers in the OHL. You even replied to a poster asking what else the Flyers add if they take out Foudy and add Olausson to the trade. Like what? I honestly wouldn't these prospects for free and my teams prospects cupboard is bare.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that either Foudy or Behrens were off the table.

What I said was that Behrens (note: no mention of Foudy) was outperforming his draft position. Here's my post:

Not really, that's a big price to pay for Colorado. Behrens is outperforming his draft position this year and Foudy is probably a late 1st round level talent in the eyes of Avs scouts. Many Avs fans would have been happy if he had been our 1st round pick where Barron was taken.
I made that statement based on the fact that Behrens is the 5th highest scoring U20 Dman in the NCAA this year. If you go just U19 then he's only behind Luke Hughes by 0.01 point/game. This is a prospect who according to some scouts likely would have gone in the 1st round if not for his size (5'10'' 176lbs), and is clearly having a great year.

That being the case it's not at all unreasonable to say that he's outperforming his draft position at #61 based on how he's playing this year. (And btw, not sure how you can argue against that in any way, given that you yourself admitted that you've never even heard of this prospect until today).

upload_2022-2-17_0-27-54.png


As for Foudy, I said that he is "probably a late 1st round level talent in the eyes of Avs scouts". Again, that is not me saying that he's off the table; all I'm implying is that his value to the Avs is likely to be higher than his value to other organizations. That's simply because his best skills (i.e. elite skating and breakout ability) are likely to be valued higher by the Avs than any organization in the league given the emphasis the Avs put on skating and rush offense.

That said, apologies if I offended you in my posts, it was not my intention. If I may make a humble suggestion however, since you said that "I've never heard of these prospects until today", it might be wise to read up on the prospects being discussed in trade proposals here before making blanket statements about another fanbase and how cheap their trade proposals are. :thumbu:
 
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John Mandalorian

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Thats fair if these prospects mean more to your team than another team, its just some fans don't know that unless someone like you explains why they want to hold on to their prospects for certain reasons. I also agree that stat watching is not a good way of interpreting how good a player is, thats why a lot of Canucks fans are trying to explain why JT is so valuable being more than just a ppg C. I just did because I had nothing else to go off of really.

Keep in mind that the names the Avs fans have been reading about were Barron, Ranta, and Jost. If Avs fans are focused on those names, it's not to suggest others are off limits but moreso that this is what has been recently reported.

Here are bullet point summaries of the Avs prospects (in no specific order): And keep in mind the Avs put a heavy emphasis on skating (as has been mentioned by others):

  • Justin Barron - Projected to be a top 10/15 pick going into his draft season, he endured a medical problem with blood clots in his arm. The Avs got good feedback from the doctor and thought the upside was worth it where they were drafting. So the Avs kind of got a top 10/15 talent that had been discounted due to medical reasons. His big skill is transition. That's the Avs identity. And he has that in spades. He's a better skater than Helleson (the Avs other RD prospect) but not as strong defensively.
  • Drew Helleson - He's in his 3rd year at Boston College where he has progressed marvelously. He was drafted in the mid 2nd but as a prospect his value would probably now be bottom half of the first. Also consider that Barron and Helleson are each RD, which is a position with elevated value.
  • Sean Behrens - He gets comparisons to Sam Girard. He's undersized but a good skater who thinks the game extremely well. He's skilled offensively and is having an exceptionally strong college season offensively. But he's not totally helpless on defense. He can be shoved around due to his size but he's also adept at taking away space for forwards who are on the rush.
  • Sampo Ranta - This guy has a ton of tools. He hasn't quite taken the last step of putting it together in the NHL yet. Great skater. Good scorer. Good size.
  • Oskar Olausson - A Burakovsky clone. Great shot. Great skater. Spectacularly inconsistent.
  • JL Foudy - Explosive skater. Very undersized. Not very physical. No heft to his game whatsoever. He's probably a playmaker more of a scorer. Might be C but probably a LW.
 
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flyerslducks

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I'm willing to bet that if/when Giroux gets traded you're really not going to like the return, rentals don't fetch what's essentially 2 1sts and a 2nd.
Ty but I never said he would. 1st and a prospect, yes he can and should
 

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What the f*** are you talking about? The assets being offered by Avs fans in this thread, i.e. a 1st, Barron, Helleson, Behrens, aren’t cheap throw-ins especially for a rebuilding (or even just retooling) team. I don’t know what world you live where a 34 year old pending UFA is going to net you some huge haul.
I value all of those prospects mentioned more than the ‘23 1st.
 
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Ararana

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We know Briere was also scouting the Eagles where Barron and Ranta play, but this is the second time Friedman has brought up Helleson as a guy Philly is specifically interested in.
 

Tripod

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Pretty sad that no Flyers fans are expecting a trade to happen, and afterward think "good deal Flyers".

Fletch is an awful GM and should have been fired long ago. But here we are.

If Avs get G, you will have lots of Flyers fans pulling for you especially because lots already like them due to how they play. Envy, for sure.
 

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If Giroux gets traded to Colorado I'll be pissed. They already have more than their fair share of good players.
 

Fight4yourRight

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If Giroux gets traded to Colorado I'll be pissed. They already have more than their fair share of good players.

Yes, and G may well put them over the top by a fair margin. There is a good deal of really butthurt Avs fans who are proposing quite frankly pathetic offers. You’d think they have won 3 cups in a row. Though they will be a threat for years to come, this is a once in a decade time situation with a bunch of key guys due for raises or heading to free agency.
 

Meatwagon

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Yes, and G may well put them over the top by a fair margin. There is a good deal of really butthurt Avs fans who are proposing quite frankly pathetic offers. You’d think they have won 3 cups in a row. Though they will be a threat for years to come, this is a once in a decade time situation with a bunch of key guys due for raises or heading to free agency.

One also needs to take into account that Av’s fans believe ALL of their prospects will be 1st line/pair players and everyone but them undervalues them. Adding a good forward helps their chances, but until they sure up goaltending, they’ll be a 2nd round out.
 
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