Player Discussion Chris Tanev (4 years, 4.5m AAV)

[Anglesmith]

I am quite happy about this. It's not a crazy amazing defenceman, but I think the term and AAV is entirely fair.

 

[super6646]

Tanev's last two years:

CF%: 45.51
SF%: 45.94
GF%: 47.40
xGF%: 46.37
SCF%: 43.95
HDCF%: 46.52
HDGF%: 44.68

Where was our vaunted analytics department on this one? Chris Snow... where tf are you to save our asses on this one?

 

[Mobiandi]

This has to be better than 3x3.5 for Stone right

 

[Anglesmith]

I saw 4 years and told myself I don’t like it. Couldn’t sign Brodie for that extra half a mil? SMH

I don't personally buy this. Treliving was quoted as saying Brodie had other priorities. I don't think the Flames simply had to match the offer to keep him.

 

[super6646]

Lucic agreed to be unprotected?

I'd assume so. If he doesn't waive you buy him out.

 

[super6646]

"Heart and Soul player"

James Neal... Troy Brouwer... Travis Hamonic...

Face palm*

 

[Bounces R Way]

This has to be better than 3x3.5 for Stone right

Jesus take the wheel

 

[Fig]

Someone tell me how I should feel about this.

Yes! Ya'll are crazy. Other than Brodie this is the best alternative.

Tanev was asked to play as the Canucks #1D and he over extended himself which was why he was always injured with Edler. From 2016-2018 only MDZ played all games a Canucks dman. In 19-20, Tanev, Edler, Hughes and Myers played basically all games in a shortened season.

Manage Tanev's TOI and he won't miss games. This is same as Gio. Tanev also isn't blocking shots properly. Gio needs to train him so he gets hurt less.

This isn't as bad as you guys think. Split Tanev and Gio to mentor Andersson and Hanifin as top line. Then about a quarter to half way, pair Gio and Tanev and let Andersson and Hanifin do the heavy lifting. Go back to Gio - Andersson and Hanifin - Tanev if the two young guys languish.

Essentially we have two top pairing Dmen mentoring two second pairing dmen to be top pairing dmen. The top pairing dmen we want to manage their TOI which gives the two young guys opportunities to do heavy lifting. There are benefits to this combo because we wouldn't try and pull this combo off with Gio - Brodie. Brodie is better than Tanev fit wise on this team IMO, but for passing the torch to Hanifin, Valimaki and Andersson, Tanev is better IMO.

Injuries, as many have stated, is a possible concern. However, a healthy Tanev can still play at the sex of a #2 defenseman.

 

[TheHudlinator]

If he can stay healthy it's a solid deal for us but he can't stay healthy

 

[FerklundCGY]

Last year, Hughes spent 705:48 with Tanev as his D-partner and 427:06 away from Tanev.

CF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.46%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.70%
Change: +8.24%

FF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.65%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 56.02%
Change: +6.37%

SF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 48.03%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 55.56%
Change: +7.53%

SCF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 47.52%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.35%
Change: +9.83%

HDCF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.64%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 56.79%
Change: +7.15%

GF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 46.03%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 59.18%
Change: +13.15%

xGF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 50.22%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.22%
Change: +7.00%

Hughes w/ Tanev = below average defenseman
Hughes w/o Tanev = elite #1 defenseman

Holy f*** what an awful signing

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Someone tell me how I should feel about this.

I, too, am looking for advice on what my feelings should be.

 

[Fig]

If he can stay healthy it's a solid deal for us but he can't stay healthy

I blame Green's system and the Canuck's system. From 2016 to 2019, only one dman played all games. The man games lost on that blue line were like Hartley era Flames. They literally don't have enough talent on the blue line, so part of their system is that they collapse the net and it's a firing range on their dmen. Just like Hartley's system.

The Flames since Gully, Peters and Ward have had ridiculously low man games lost on the blue line. The system helps to protect them from excess wear and tear.

I think Tanev will literally play 90% or more of all the games in Ward's system assuming we aren't changing to one that requires a ridiculous amount of blocked shots.

 

[Mobiandi]

I guess if there's something to like about this signing is that it helps the rest of the team get accustomed to Markstrom's style faster (@Fig)

 

[Fig]

I guess if there's something to like about this signing is that it helps the rest of the team get accustomed to Markstrom's style faster (@Fig)

Agreed.

I will say you guys aren't wrong in being upset that we have Tanev instead of Brodie. Brodie is the superior dman, especially for only $500K more. However, IMO, the downside of Brodie is that we would never get around to giving the young guys more responsibility as we'd always be deploying our aces in Gio - Brodie pairing in the most important plays. In this situation, we are more likely to deploy Hanifin - Andersson as a pairing due to sensitivity of TOI management of Gio and Tanev.

The silver lining in Tanev is that he is a better training wheel to train the young guys than Brodie. Plus, Having Tanev as Hanifin's partner may help to speed up his defensive learning (since he says he wants to round out his defensive game and not cheat on it to do offense like Gio does as mentioned in the podcast).

 

[Anglesmith]

Last year, Hughes spent 705:48 with Tanev as his D-partner and 427:06 away from Tanev.

CF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.46%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.70%
Change: +8.24%

FF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.65%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 56.02%
Change: +6.37%

SF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 48.03%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 55.56%
Change: +7.53%

SCF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 47.52%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.35%
Change: +9.83%

HDCF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.64%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 56.79%
Change: +7.15%

GF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 46.03%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 59.18%
Change: +13.15%

xGF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 50.22%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.22%
Change: +7.00%

Hughes w/ Tanev = below average defenseman
Hughes w/o Tanev = elite #1 defenseman

Holy f*** what an awful signing

Just to play Devil's advocate, what kind of correlation is there between "not playing with Tanev" and "not playing against top lines?"

 

[TheHudlinator]

I blame Green's system and the Canuck's system. From 2016 to 2019, only one dman played all games. The man games lost on that blue line were like Hartley era Flames. They literally don't have enough talent on the blue line, so part of their system is that they collapse the net and it's a firing range on their dmen. Just like Hartley's system.

The Flames since Gully, Peters and Ward have had ridiculously low man games lost on the blue line. The system helps to protect them from excess wear and tear.

I think Tanev will literally play 90% or more of all the games in Ward's system assuming we aren't changing to one that requires a ridiculous amount of blocked shots.

Tanev seems like the kind of guy that is going to try and block a shot even if he doesn't have to. It makes him a fan favorite but I expect him to still miss time every year.

 

[FerklundCGY]

Just to play Devil's advocate, what kind of correlation is there between "not playing with Tanev" and "not playing against top lines?"

Honestly great question and that might make the numbers a bit better, but even then the difference in competition wouldn't/shouldn't affect the numbers that drastically + it shows how bad Tanev is competing against top lines

 

[Rubi]

Seriously, did Calgary's amateur scouts suck all the talent out of their pro scouts?

It really seems like while the amateur scouts seem to hit more than they miss, it's the complete opposite when it comes to their pro scouts.

The Flames are paying Tanev $4.5M to play 60 games a year knowing full well he's likely going to miss the other 20+. Might as well prorate his salary to $6M.

Infuriating.

Tanev has had a number of unfortunate injuries but he did play all 69 Vancouver games and 17 playoff games in the 2019-20 season.

 

[Fig]

Tanev seems like the kind of guy that is going to try and block a shot even if he doesn't have to. It makes him a fan favorite but I expect him to still miss time every year.

Agreed. The good news is that our current system should help to reduce the times he feels he had no choice to make that type of defensive play. We have active dmen who push the puck to the perimeter. This should help with his health and while maybe he won't play 100% of games, should be close to 90% ish IMO.

Tanev has had a number of unfortunate injuries but he did play all 69 Vancouver games and 17 playoff games in the 2019-20 season.

Look at the talent for the last 3 seasons. This season the Canucks added two top 4 dmen in Hughes and Myers and the load distribution of having 4 top 4 dmen helped to keep him healthy.

We should be able to do the same easily as we have 5 top 4 calibre dmen.

 

[Mazatt]

Have analytics ever favoured heavy defensive, shut down d-men? They seem kind of counter-productive to judging Tanev.

 

[MS]

Tanev's last two years:

CF%: 45.51
SF%: 45.94
GF%: 47.40
xGF%: 46.37
SCF%: 43.95
HDCF%: 46.52
HDGF%: 44.68

Where was our vaunted analytics department on this one? Chris Snow... where tf are you to save our asses on this one?

Last year, Hughes spent 705:48 with Tanev as his D-partner and 427:06 away from Tanev.

CF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.46%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.70%
Change: +8.24%

FF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.65%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 56.02%
Change: +6.37%

SF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 48.03%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 55.56%
Change: +7.53%

SCF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 47.52%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.35%
Change: +9.83%

HDCF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 49.64%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 56.79%
Change: +7.15%

GF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 46.03%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 59.18%
Change: +13.15%

xGF%:
Hughes w/ Tanev: 50.22%
Hughes w/o Tanev: 57.22%
Change: +7.00%

Hughes w/ Tanev = below average defenseman
Hughes w/o Tanev = elite #1 defenseman

Holy f*** what an awful signing

Tanev was getting softer minutes acting as a babysitter for Hughes and then getting absolutely buried in shutdown minutes with Edler. The splits make sense when you understand the context.

Circa 2016 Tanev might have been the best pure defensive defender in the NHL. He’s slowed a bit with all the injuries but is still very solid. Was outstanding in the Minnesota/St. Louis series this year.

 

[tmurfin]

I think he’ll fit in really well next to Hanifin, acting as a babysitter of sorts, like Hammer was supposed to be, but I think Tanev is better positionally and not as prone to boneheaded plays. I’m hoping this opens up Hanifins offensive game a bit, he’s going to have to step up to help replace Brodie’s offense.

I’m fine with the money, let’s be real, ~4.5 seems pretty standard for a top 4 dman these days, let alone a righty. Term is meh, would’ve liked 3 years a lot more but that’s the UFA tax. Overall it is what it is, I’m we needed a top 4 righty, we got one, one with incredible heart and character to boot.

As for Brodie, I’m getting tired of seeing “why didn’t we give that money to him?” , uh, the timing of these signings seems to spell it out pretty clear to me. The Flames did have an offer to Brodie, who WANTED to test the market, he signed in TO, Flames moved on to their next target. I have zero doubt the Flames offered similar if not the same money TO, but it takes 2 to tango.

 

[Dertell]

tanev used to be a decent player

Flames fans: shake up the team!

Also flames fans: why didn’t we keep the same players?!?

Yea when people says shake the team they really meant add several brutal UFA band-aid contracts. spot on

 

[Mazatt]

tanev used to be a decent player



Yea when people says shake the team they really meant add several brutal UFA band-aid contracts. spot on

Calgary is an actively better team after today though

 

[Bankerguy]

I was happy that you guys got Markstrom.. but Tanev too.... ugh.. cmon guys :-( leave us sumthin...