Babcock seems to be really good with a limited lineup. He can bleed a stone like few others. I'm not sure he's that hot when he starts getting handed a lot of talent, because he still has that bleed a stone mentality.
News Article: Chris Chelios on Babcock: Veteran FA's don't want to play for Babcock
- Thread starter obey86
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Babcock seems to be really good with a limited lineup. He can bleed a stone like few others. I'm not sure he's that hot when he starts getting handed a lot of talent, because he still has that bleed a stone mentality.
How long was Babcock here?
10 seasons:
3 Conference Finals
2 Finals
1 Cup
I think, given his roster, he did about as well as anyone could expect. Starting at about 2010, the writing was on the wall. Our best players were getting older, Lidstrom was going to retire within a couple years, and we had no talent in the pipeline who could fill in for those holes. I don't blame Babcock *at all* for not reaching the conference finals or finals in his last 5 seasons here.
Heaton
Moderator
The veterans who had a problem with Babcock and decided to leave were guys the fans wanted to leave anyway.
maybe, except in hindsight we may as well have kept Hudler and Flip would have been far better than Weiss turned out to be.
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
Most fans want useful but only moderately useful veterans to leave, because they're usually blocking awesome prospects. Short tenured veterans who aren't splashy are almost always the ones fans choose to obliterate.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Ehhhh.
Veterans stopped wanting to come to Detroit when the team started to get worse.
Babcock became a problem when the winning stopped.
Veterans stopped wanting to come to Detroit when the team started to get worse.
Babcock became a problem when the winning stopped.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Yeah, we had a great three year window. In 2007 both Kronwall and Schneider were injured. If healthy we probably beat the Ducks and smoke the Sens.
2008: Cup
2009: Lids and Pav both injured. League starts the Finals immediately after the conference final ends. Again, with a few days rest there's reason to believe we win back to back. Which Detroit had only done once before since the Original Six days.
Yes. Shanny was pretty much done. He wasn't going to hustle at that point in his career.
Everyone hated Robert Lang with the intensity of 1,000 suns.
Schneider was replaced with Brian Rafalski. You take that trade 100 times out of 100.
5x won division
2x won presidents trophy
Yeah, he totally shoulda done better.
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That's the crux of the matter.
Easy to tolerate a taskmaster coach when he's going to lead you to a championship. See: Belichick, Bill.
If Belichick wasn't winning, he'd just be another ******* with a big ego nobody wanted to play for.
I'm imaging but I'm not coming up with much. Free agency hasn't exactly been a bonanza of high impact players. Who are we talking about exactly?
The Red Wings got some of the better free agents when they had a high caliber lineup and they paid more than anyone else before the cap. To read anything else into it is just silly.
Some of you folks have bad memories. Yes, Shanny left because of Babs. Yzerman said he was about to retire during the season, but then Lang got hurt so he felt his team needed him. Hudler and Flip both left as soon as they could. And the GM did nothing to alleviate the situation, still wanting to keep Babs even though the writing was on the wall.
Cheli is just telling us what we should know as keen observers of the Wings. Babs only had one modus operandi, but it was a poor fit for the Wings - imho.
Cheli is just telling us what we should know as keen observers of the Wings. Babs only had one modus operandi, but it was a poor fit for the Wings - imho.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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My memory is great. Yours is apparently revisionist history and speculation.
Unless you have a link or some proof that Shanny left because of Babs?
Yzerman was considering retirment because he couldn't skate and was playing so poorly.
Flip left for more money and more icetime that he wouldn't get behind Dats and Z.
Who knows why Hudler does what he does. Could've been Babs. Hudler left and came back once.
Chelios, who had no role in signing free agents when Babcock was coach and wasn't even on the team after 2009 is apparently sad he couldn't "win his heart" which probably has more to do with Chelios not getting as much ice time because he was an old man than anything else.
It's funny how the tune has changed regarding Babcock now that he coaches Toronto.
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accuses poster of speculation, then refutes his post with nothing but speculation.The only actual evidence we have of players perceptions of Babcock is the word of former players and now we have multiple saying they didn't like playing for Babcock.
Do you have any evidence to refute what Chelios said?
Someone please post a list of all these top notch free agents that the Red Wings missed out on.
The backstabbing makes Chelios sound like a total ****** and his motives can only be seen as trying to defend the failures of his current boss, Ken Holland.
FWIW, the Wings let Hudler go because they didn't have the funds to sign him.
It's laughable that fans are bemoaning the "loss" of Filppula. Superstar GM Steve Yzerman just dumped him and his horrid contract he signed him to. Wow, was Babs ever wrong about him.
The backstabbing makes Chelios sound like a total ****** and his motives can only be seen as trying to defend the failures of his current boss, Ken Holland.
FWIW, the Wings let Hudler go because they didn't have the funds to sign him.
It's laughable that fans are bemoaning the "loss" of Filppula. Superstar GM Steve Yzerman just dumped him and his horrid contract he signed him to. Wow, was Babs ever wrong about him.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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The only actual evidence we have of players perceptions of Babcock is the word of former players and now we have multiple saying they didn't like playing for Babcock.
Do you have any evidence to refute what Chelios said?
Multiple players? Chelios and friggin Commodore? Chelios also said he'd never play for Detroit.
So because I don't have evidence to refute total hearsay, it must be true? I don't doubt that Babcock isn't a touchy feely coach but what solid evidence could Chelios have that was scaring away free agents?
And mine isn't actually speculation.
There was an article at the time how Yzerman contemplated retiring halfway through the season because he was playing so poorly. This is the only currently link I could find but it was widely referenced around the time of Stevie's retirement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/sports/hockey/yzerman-isnt-ready-for-jersey-to-be-raised.html
Flip leaving for more money is verifiable from many sources.
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/11/detroit_red_wings_gameday_was_1.html
Shanny felt it was a changing of the guard for the Wings, and he went on to work in the front offices for the NHL so going to New York made a lot of sense.
http://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=2514278
That's not to say it couldn't have been something else but there's actual evidence of those reasons and none that it was Babcock.
I think it was time for Babcock to move on but it's hilarious watching all these different things pinned on him now that he's gone.
Ask Chelios.
Also he didn't say "top notch" free agents he said veteran free agents.
When did Babcock become some demi-god that is immune to any type of criticism whatsoever?
The idea that some players don't want to play for him isn't anything new. Its been said about him since he began coaching.
It also doesn't mean he isn't a great coach. Many players didn't want to play for Bowman either.
For once we get an honest answer from someone within the organization on a question asked to them, and now he's criticized for it. Maybe this is why we normally get every question answered with the canned company responses.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
The jersey ad still sucks
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Why would you want someone who has never been a head coach at any level to become the Red Wings coach?
And yet Shanny is part of the brain trust to give Babcock the largest contract an NHL coach has ever seen. Weird. Then there's Steve Yzerman as executive director of Team Canada has Babcock coaching that team, and strongly influencing player selections, twice.
For really wanting to get away from the guy, these boys sure do find ways to keep him close and put him into positions of influence.
All of that said, I'm confident Babcock is a pain in the ass to play for just like Belichick, but without the billion titles.
I'll ask again? Who? Who are these coveted veterans who didn't want to play here? Brian Rafalski? Daniel Alfredsson? Dallas Drake? So no veterans UFAs wanted to come here, eh?
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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He actually said:
He doesn't even seem to be referencing any specific instances other than maybe Suter who he says is a close friend of his.
If you listen to the interview he refers to Babcock "not wanting him in the lineup." During the first couple years under Babcock Chelios got over 18 minutes a night, which is pretty good for an aging Dman who wasn't exactly fast. Yes sadly in 08 Cheli was only playing 16+ minutes a night as a 46 year old. Sounds like Babcock sure didn't like him.
Holy hyperbole. Do you really think Babcock has been immune to criticism?
Im' not criticizing Cheli for it. He's never been afraid to say what he thinks. But it doesn't mean that Babcock actually chased away a bunch of potential free agents during his time here and ran roster players out of town.
Multiple - Definition - consisting of, including, or involving more than one
Hearsay is third hand information. Direct quotes from both Chelios and Commodore are not hearsay. A reporters opinion of why Flip left for Tampa is.
I can't answer what evidence Chelios has without my own speculation, so here goes. Chelios is likely friends with a good portion of the NHL. He was also a big part of the union and a popular player for long enough that there really isn't any reason to doubt his opinion on the matter. I'm sure he knows of multiple players that hit free agency during Babs tenure that didn't want to play for him. Was he being hyperbolic when he said that "no" veteran would want to come here? probably, but I don't doubt he's telling the truth at his greater point.
You speculated that Chelios is only saying this because he was an old man who wasn't getting enough ice-time.
I didn't say Fugu wasn't also speculating but if you're going to call someone out for something you probably shouldn't do the very same thing in the same post.
As for why these things are coming up now that he's gone, when else would the come out? Commodore said his piece as soon as he no longer played for Babcock and Chelios waited until he was no longer a co-worker of Babs. Why would he say these things while Babs was still here? that would make for an awkward workplace.
aar000n
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2006
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Babcock is a coach that doesn't give much leeway to vets just because they are vets. He rides everyone equally, and hard, and often. If a guy stinks he pulls their job until they stop stinking. He tends to require the player to facilitate the team rather than forcing the team to facilitate the player.
He is also an elite coach.
This means that in certain situations, like a tournament setting with Team Canada or on a roster with a bunch of kids on it in Toronto, his negatives are minimized and his positives are maximized. It also means that in other situations, like a largely veteran roster, the inverse is true.
If Babcock was coaching Detroit right now they'd be a better team in the standings and vets would dislike playing here.
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