News Article: Chris Chelios on Babcock: Veteran FA's don't want to play for Babcock

jaster

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Jun 8, 2007
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Babcock came across as highly skeptical on the Stephen Weiss signing. Said if Weiss played the way he needed to play he'd be fine. We all know how that turned out. Perhaps Babcock knew something about Weiss the rest of us and Ken Holland didn't know?

It was Babcock who insisted Weiss be brought to Detroit. He was Weiss's biggest champion.
 

Fugu

RIP Barb
Nov 26, 2004
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My memory is great. Yours is apparently revisionist history and speculation.

Unless you have a link or some proof that Shanny left because of Babs?
Yzerman was considering retirment because he couldn't skate and was playing so poorly.
Flip left for more money and more icetime that he wouldn't get behind Dats and Z.
Who knows why Hudler does what he does. Could've been Babs. Hudler left and came back once.

Chelios, who had no role in signing free agents when Babcock was coach and wasn't even on the team after 2009 is apparently sad he couldn't "win his heart" which probably has more to do with Chelios not getting as much ice time because he was an old man than anything else.

It's funny how the tune has changed regarding Babcock now that he coaches Toronto.

Hudler had to come back to the Wings because he left after his arbitration situation was filed.

Shanahan said he wasn't into the screaming that happened that first year. He felt that after three Cups and all the blood he'd shed for the Wings, he didn't need to be treated like a rookie looking for a handout. Iirc, he had a 40G season that year too. Yzerman mentioned the shouting too. Babs even commented that the screaming was stupid and he was disappointed he'd come in that way.

Now...links? Well, they were here but the team boards got wiped a year ago, except the last three years. Looking for them now might only yield links to archives, and money is required, so no, thank you.

You honestly believe I would post something that isn't true? These comments came from the players -- not a reporter or anyone else speculating. Do you remember the Finnish player who said Babs wanted him to play like Holmstrom (in front of the net), and he just wasn't going to do that? He was traded to Philly.

The tune has not changed. Some of us talked about this stuff as it was happening.
 

Fugu

RIP Barb
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And yet Shanny is part of the brain trust to give Babcock the largest contract an NHL coach has ever seen. Weird. Then there's Steve Yzerman as executive director of Team Canada has Babcock coaching that team, and strongly influencing player selections, twice.

For really wanting to get away from the guy, these boys sure do find ways to keep him close and put him into positions of influence.

All of that said, I'm confident Babcock is a pain in the ass to play for just like Belichick, but without the billion titles.


Shanny is a lot older, and probably more worried about turning the sapless Leafs around.

I mean, all that stuff happened initially with the team Babs inherited, and mostly with veteran players. Then with the loss of all the superstars and HOF'ers-To-Be, was it better, or did the younger guys just not have the experience with what it was like to play for other NHL coaches?
 

Fugu

RIP Barb
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Babcock is a coach that doesn't give much leeway to vets just because they are vets. He rides everyone equally, and hard, and often. If a guy stinks he pulls their job until they stop stinking. He tends to require the player to facilitate the team rather than forcing the team to facilitate the player.

He is also an elite coach.

This means that in certain situations, like a tournament setting with Team Canada or on a roster with a bunch of kids on it in Toronto, his negatives are minimized and his positives are maximized. It also means that in other situations, like a largely veteran roster, the inverse is true.

If Babcock was coaching Detroit right now they'd be a better team in the standings and vets would dislike playing here.


Maybe, but it would be the most boring hockey to watch ever, so it's good that things changed -- at least on that point.

And seriously, you think a player like Shanahan or Chelios needed to be ridden? They're beyond ultra-competitive.
 

Fugu

RIP Barb
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2 players of literally over 90 to play for the Wings since. One who has an ego a mile wide in Chelios, who in his mid 40s was still being played nearly 1/3rd of a game despite him being slow and an offensive blackhole. The other was a 7th d-man who had "career AHL/NHL tweener" written all over him. Neither are what I would call unbiased sources. If veterans didn't want to play for Babs why did they land Hossa and Rafi? Why would Stuart resign when he had the best possible out? There is a lot of counter evidence to this article. I would say that the fact that Detroit's decline was becoming obvious had a lot more to do with it to be honest.

The way I remember it, the UFAs lost interest in Detroit after Bowman, Yzerman et al. left. I think it was Babs, but also a belief that they were somewhat declining.
 

PuckDynasty

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May 3, 2014
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The way I remember it, the UFAs lost interest in Detroit after Bowman, Yzerman et al. left. I think it was Babs, but also a belief that they were somewhat declining.

Which not so coincidentally was when the salary cap came along.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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To add to the Babcock was a turn off thing and the first year was rocky, I still remember an interview where Holland said he essentially went down and told Babcock that the Wings play a certain way, they do things a certain way, and that wasn't going to change. That Babcock needed to get with the system more than the org had to get with Babcock. That first year was rough, but it's hidden behind the fact that the team still did alright that year, and then later won a cup.

Which not so coincidentally was when the salary cap came along.

also when the horses we drafted and rode to greatness were aging. The idea that the salary cap killed us, I'm just not buying.
 

chances14

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Jan 7, 2010
10,396
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the wings 1st round drafting from 2005-2012 is what killed the wings, not the salary cap. none of those picks turned out to be elite, which when you are drafting at the bottom due to your sucess, is what the current system is designed to do.

thinking you could build a 3rd straight elite core without top 10 picks was a pipe dream
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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The idea that the salary cap killed us, I'm just not buying.

Kill would be too strong a word. But hamstrung? Oh yes.

In the pre-cap era, spending teams like Detroit were immune to bad decisions. You could overpay aging veterans to overpower teams on the 3rd and 4th lines with no consequence to your ability to retain players or sign future free agents. The Wings were able to cultivate elite talent, yes, but they also were able to lock in veterans throughout the lineup with no need to draft and develop those positions.

If there was no salary cap today, I'd be thrilled with Helm and Abdelkader mucking it up on the bottom 6 for the next 4 years.
 

Fugu

RIP Barb
Nov 26, 2004
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Which not so coincidentally was when the salary cap came along.

No, Babs came in after the first lockout, so the 2005-06 season. That's when the Wings had to get down to $39 MM in salary, from their $80+ MM! Then next lockout was in 2012. Winger is correct too that Holland had to point out to Babs the kind of players the Wings had. Skilled -- not buffoons and pylons. More of that came later.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
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To add to the Babcock was a turn off thing and the first year was rocky, I still remember an interview where Holland said he essentially went down and told Babcock that the Wings play a certain way, they do things a certain way, and that wasn't going to change. That Babcock needed to get with the system more than the org had to get with Babcock. That first year was rough, but it's hidden behind the fact that the team still did alright that year, and then later won a cup.

Oh, you mean that season where they finished with 124 points? :laugh:
 

SpookyTsuki

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Dec 3, 2014
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To add to the Babcock was a turn off thing and the first year was rocky, I still remember an interview where Holland said he essentially went down and told Babcock that the Wings play a certain way, they do things a certain way, and that wasn't going to change. That Babcock needed to get with the system more than the org had to get with Babcock. That first year was rough, but it's hidden behind the fact that the team still did alright that year, and then later won a cup.



also when the horses we drafted and rode to greatness were aging. The idea that the salary cap killed us, I'm just not buying.

Good on holland. Coaches shouldn't have that much power
 

SpookyTsuki

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Dec 3, 2014
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Oh, you mean that season where they finished with 124 points? :laugh:

Right now. Babcock always starts out good and then slowly declines. Amazing year with the ducks. And then poof. Not an amazing first year. Good 3 years (but disappointing) and then another 2 years or so with disappointments. And now the leafs have a good year (first year was bad but I don't think bowman could have helped them that year either)

Even if you go back to his really old coaching he does this. Except for maybe one year
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Nov 8, 2011
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Oh, you mean that season where they finished with 124 points? :laugh:

And got upset in the first round. You want to give Babcock all the credit for the times he punched above his weight. The 06 playoffs where he got crushed by Chris Pronger, Ales Hemsky and Fernando Pisani isn't exactly his Mike Babcock is the man moment....

If we give credit for Babcock overachieving in 2014 to make the playoffs. The embarrassment in 06 where he had the best team and got beat is underachievement in a big way.

Expectations coach, he generally delivers to them. But Mike Babcock should have won more than one cup in Detroit. Since all a decent number of people care about are Cups, it is said here a lot that is the bottom line, why are we not more upset with the golden boy having the best roster in hockey several times and coming up short all but once?

I get that the league screwed us in 09, but still from 06-12 he has a roster that if he was the guy I read about we have more than one banner.
 

Detroit Swed Wings

#FireHolland
Jan 17, 2013
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You guys are missing the possibility that Stevie and Shanahan where more interested in being the boss of Babcock than the other way around. Funny how business work like that.
Professionalism.
 

PuckDynasty

Registered User
May 3, 2014
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Yeah, and Bowman won the Cup here every year. Yeah, Bowman, who wanted to trade Yzerman for Yashin. But everyone loved his warm and fuzzy demeanor. And he won the Cup every single year.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Which was all due to the planning and roster development by Babcock, right?

:popcorn:

Not to mention if we're looking at season points only, Dave Lewis guided the Wings to some good seasons, too.

Kill would be too strong a word. But hamstrung? Oh yes.

In the pre-cap era, spending teams like Detroit were immune to bad decisions. You could overpay aging veterans to overpower teams on the 3rd and 4th lines with no consequence to your ability to retain players or sign future free agents. The Wings were able to cultivate elite talent, yes, but they also were able to lock in veterans throughout the lineup with no need to draft and develop those positions.

If there was no salary cap today, I'd be thrilled with Helm and Abdelkader mucking it up on the bottom 6 for the next 4 years.

It's only hamstrung because we haven't been able to draft and develop the sort of talent that really drove those massive payrolls. Yeah, they could better hide mistakes, but they also had fewer mistakes to hide, and didn't have to horribly over pay a guy like Gator to keep him around. It's why LaPointe was told to take a hike when Boston got stupid and offered him $5m a year. We became Boston, unfortunately.

Good on holland. Coaches shouldn't have that much power

I don't disagree. It's just this idea that Babcock had some sort of smooth transition and the club became a cup winner because of him. Holland gave him a ton of talent and then told him he needed to use it better. Credit to Babcock for changing a bit.
 

SpookyTsuki

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Dec 3, 2014
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Not to mention if we're looking at season points only, Dave Lewis guided the Wings to some good seasons, too.



It's only hamstrung because we haven't been able to draft and develop the sort of talent that really drove those massive payrolls. Yeah, they could better hide mistakes, but they also had fewer mistakes to hide, and didn't have to horribly over pay a guy like Gator to keep him around. It's why LaPointe was told to take a hike when Boston got stupid and offered him $5m a year. We became Boston, unfortunately.



I don't disagree. It's just this idea that Babcock had some sort of smooth transition and the club became a cup winner because of him. Holland gave him a ton of talent and then told him he needed to use it better. Credit to Babcock for changing a bit.

Just like the patriots now. If bill has someone that asks for more then he is worth. He's gone. Holland will actually double it up. You want 3.5? Here's 7
 

SirloinUB

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Aug 20, 2010
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Sorry Cheli, Ive got respect but not much sympathy. Guy was 44 and in the twilight of his career by the time Babcock came around. I remember many on this board being extremely frustrated with his play the year Detroit won the cup. Chelios was literally in the AHL the year Pitt beat Detroit.

I absolutely believe Babs is/was a difficult guy to play for. Mike was in the business of coaching a perennial Cup contender and not making friends. Playing for a cup contender in the NHL is a privilege (not a right) so expectations were high. If player X can't meet those expectations they'll find another guy who can.

What's with these guys having marginal roles on a Stanley Cup contender complaining about their treatment under Babs?
 

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