Confirmed with Link: [CHI/DAL] Sharp & Johns traded to Stars for Daley & Garbutt Part 2

[Toews2Bickell]

I think the Hawks were lights out during the regular season of 2013 because they played like every other night. They seem to perform a lot better when they're playing without many long breaks between games. See their b2b record in the last 6 years.

 

[southernbeardown54]

unfortunate the market right now backed stan in a corner but the talk of how daly sucks is silly he was asked to jump in the play offensively last year I live in Dallas and i see him a lot the dude has serious wheels and will probably look amazing in the Hawks system.

He is also a great guy. Quick story a few years ago players hit the glass and knocked it into a young fan who was crying and real upset. Daly was on the bench he jumped off and skated to the fan and gave her his stick. Dudes a great guy he will give it all he has got hope it works.

 

[JaegerDice]

Daley will need to be sheltered.

Which is fine, so long as Rundblad is in the minors. You can't shelter two guys, we saw that in the playoffs.

That said, if he's given a ton of ozone starts, and is paired with somebody that can cover for all the 2-on-1s that will spring the other way, then he could put up a ton of points on this team.

We shall see.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Or he could develop a defensive side of his game much like JO did once he joined Q's system and played with Hammer.

 

[slappipappi]

D You can't shelter two guys, we saw that in the playoffs.

Except we sheltered 2 guys in the playoffs and won the Stanley Cup.

 

[JaegerDice]

Or he could develop a defensive side of his game much like JO did once he joined Q's system and played with Hammer.

It's possible. I doubt it though. Oduya had demonstrated with NJ that he could be a solid defensive defensemen, before he went to ATL/WPG and was asked to do to much on a bad team.

It's possible that Daley is in the same situation in Dallas, and will benefit from being further down the depth charts in Chicago, but unlike Oduya there's nothing on his record to demonstrate solid defensive skills. He's always had the same MO as a guy that can put up a ton of points, and spend most of his time in his own zone after creating a 2-on-1 the other way with a bad pinch.

Except we sheltered 2 guys in the playoffs and won the Stanley Cup.

We didn't shelter them, we barely played them at all.

There's a difference.

Sheltered guys may get less minutes, but they shouldn't be playing under 8. They should be sheltered in terms of zone starts and QoC sure, but playing Keith, Seabrook, Hammer and Oduya (if he comes back for cheap) 25+ minutes a night, every night, through 82 games is not doable.

 

[tdfxman]

Man this trade sucks so hard. This is what Day 2 and it still sucks.

What sucks is the BS from Bowman. What sucks are the lies.

I mean "we wanted to improve the team this year". WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

That is crap. So he basically said, as others have stated, he DID NOT WANT PICKS.

So explain to me how instead of taking these 2 players that are below avg on a below avg team, (read championship teams don't have these guys) we are BETTER than if we take picks and

SIGN KRUGER and ODUYA.

HOW THE ##@$ are we BETTER now than if we took picks and signed those 2 guys.

I mean I don't mind much, but it's illogical crap that just ticks me off. Someone is lying here.

I mean better is 16 and JO signed and no daley or garbage (i will admit if he would settle down and maybe under some real leadership garbutt can play for us more effectively).

I mean why can't anyone else see that?

So I guess the only hope I have is we

dump bicks+ prospect for a 7th with maybe even 1M retained and then trade versteeg with none retained and not another body gone (unless it is morin/tropp)

So we still have a path to what should be wanted.

The hawks fan Kubler ross grief progression steps

1) lose brian Bickel
2) trade versteeg
3) sign 16 to a 2 year 2.1AAV contract
4) sign JO to a whatever is left 2 year deal


This would leave us in 2 years with big issues again after all the young guys hit ELC and we are forced to deal with stuff again. Next year is seebs and AA hitting, but cap will go up a bit to handle AA's raise.

Anyway, it's BS for him to say we wanted to make our team better THIS YEAR and not resign champions but instead sign chumps how haven't won anything.

 

[tdfxman]

It's possible. I doubt it though. Oduya had demonstrated with NJ that he could be a solid defensive defensemen, before he went to ATL/WPG and was asked to do to much on a bad team.

It's possible that Daley is in the same situation in Dallas, and will benefit from being further down the depth charts in Chicago, but unlike Oduya there's nothing on his record to demonstrate solid defensive skills. He's always had the same MO as a guy that can put up a ton of points, and spend most of his time in his own zone after creating a 2-on-1 the other way with a bad pinch.



We didn't shelter them, we barely played them at all.

There's a difference.

Sheltered guys may get less minutes, but they shouldn't be playing under 8. They should be sheltered in terms of zone starts and QoC sure, but playing Keith, Seabrook, Hammer and Oduya (if he comes back for cheap) 25+ minutes a night, every night, through 82 games is not doable.

Good posts here. We just can't have all these guys we need to shelter. Amen to that, how freaking hard is it to get players that can just play?

Now, there is what 120 D minutes to go around.

Trying to think this through. What would be acceptable RS #'s for our 6 D
Keith 25
Seabrook 23
hammer 22
daley 20
TVR 17 (that is what Rozy was playing in the PO when he was playing well)
bla bla bla 13

can bla bla bla #6 handle 13 minutes a game. I mean Stan freaking 2 Cup bowman can't come up with a guy that can play 13 minutes a game for 2 years in a row.

Anyway, so frustrating to see this piss poor asset management lately. Has Stan done some good things, no doubt about it. But he doesn't seem to draft players we develop that make OUR team.

if I could be king for a day and be GM for a day I dump bicks for whatever it takes, calling each team each day until I get an offer. I trade KS. I call 16 and Jo and say sign. THEN, daley as your #5 is what Cup winning teams look like. He can play PP and he can be ok with 17 sheltered minutes. daley as the 5 and not forced to have to play lockdown D is what a winning team next year requires. We can't win with Daley playing 35 minutes in an OT game in the playoffs, his crap D game will catch up with us.

Anyway, trying to think about minute targets for next year.

Why is SB trading for 2 pieces THAT ARE LESS GOOD THIS YEAR that what he has on the roster? I can only hope he rids us of bickell and Versteeg and signs 16 and JO.

 

[hawksfan50]

Well Shaw Baun Garbutt Desjardins Hossa Dano and Anisimov can all go and fetch and soI do not think jam will be a problem...Also it is one thing to force a go and fetch with 2 shutdown Dmen stymied Kane 's puck carry ...but what do you do with Panarin "s puck carry on the other top line..You will not shut down both lines ...If Dano is on a third line...with Teuvo...now you have a reap big problem..Go and fetch will not be any problem with this amount of puck carry talent..

 

[Fortyfives]

How is the defense with Daley and TVR as the bottom pair with with the same top 4 not better than last year?

rosival is **** and Daley is better.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

How is the defense with Daley and TVR as the bottom pair with with the same top 4 not better than last year?

rosival is **** and Daley is better.

It is better. The assumption is Oduya is gone

 

[tdfxman]

How is the defense with Daley and TVR as the bottom pair with with the same top 4 not better than last year?

rosival is **** and Daley is better.

That is what I said as well. Daley is primo #5. Can play PP all the time and that will help his TOI. So yeah give me

top 4 from last year and Daley and TVR. That is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY way way, did I say way?, better than last year.

That is what a team that can win the Cup looks like on D. Not this crap.

 

[Fortyfives]

That is what I said as well. Daley is primo #5. Can play PP all the time and that will help his TOI. So yeah give me

top 4 from last year and Daley and TVR. That is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY way way, did I say way?, better than last year.

That is what a team that can win the Cup looks like on D. Not this crap.

I love that defense. Makes it so you can live with a inexperienced and cheap forward group that will make mistakes. I actually think I would sign oduya before Kruger.

 

[southernbeardown54]

It's possible that Daley is in the same situation in Dallas, and will benefit from being further down the depth charts in Chicago, but unlike Oduya there's nothing on his record to demonstrate solid defensive skills. He's always had the same MO as a guy that can put up a ton of points, and spend most of his time in his own zone after creating a 2-on-1 the other way with a bad pinch.

I have to laugh at this as there really is no truth in it at all. Daley has always had a healthy plus minus with small point totals except this past year when ruff pushed him to join the rush and take advantage of his speed. He was always a responsible second paring dman in Dallas. I guess if you say "always" and just go by last year you would be right

 

[tdfxman]

He has had NEGATIVE rCorsi in 5 of the last 6 years.

he is crap playing D. period full stop. He does NOT drive puck possession. period.

What more do you need?

I mean de-nile is a river in Egypt.

Could be play 15 minutes a game as a #5 with better O zone starts, sure. he was 52% D zone starts, so he wasn't sheltered at all in DAL.

He is a Cup winning team's 5th D man that helps on the PP. That is what he is. To say you can play him 40 minutes a game in a triple OT playoff game, odds are he is one of the 2 d man out there when you lose the game. that is all I am saying.

In the crunch of PO hockey he has not, to date, shown he can lock it down like our top 4 did last year. period. I mean what am I missing that you are saying?

I want to believe, try me. And if all you have is +/-, then wow really you would mock someone with nothing to back it up?

 

[here come the]

He has had NEGATIVE rCorsi in 5 of the last 6 years.

he is crap playing D. period full stop. He does NOT drive puck possession. period.

What more do you need?

I mean de-nile is a river in Egypt.

Could be play 15 minutes a game as a #5 with better O zone starts, sure. he was 52% D zone starts, so he wasn't sheltered at all in DAL.

He is a Cup winning team's 5th D man that helps on the PP. That is what he is. To say you can play him 40 minutes a game in a triple OT playoff game, odds are he is one of the 2 d man out there when you lose the game. that is all I am saying.

In the crunch of PO hockey he has not, to date, shown he can lock it down like our top 4 did last year. period. I mean what am I missing that you are saying?

I want to believe, try me. And if all you have is +/-, then wow really you would mock someone with nothing to back it up?

You mean like Johnny Oduya has?

 

[HockeySauce]

Well I did say "Like a"...

He does seem to have better hands than either Shaw or Saad, but his game is comparable to a mix of Shaw and Saad.

Like you said, he isn't afraid of going to the net. Has a bit of an edge in his playing style. Plays beyond his size. Sound familiar?

He's also a winger who plays a strong two way game, has some speed (albeit less than Saad), and is strong on the puck. Again, does that sound familiar?

Comparing him to Panarin (a playmaker) is a much bigger stretch than saying he's like a mix between Shaw and Saad.

It sounds like a hockey player. He doesn't have Saad's size or straight-line speed, but has better hands and playmaking. They're not similar at all. Dano's most likely to beat you by making a quick pass, finding an open teammate or trying a quick wrist shot. Saad's going to beat you with his speed/power. He'll blow by you.

He's MUCH closer to Panarin than "a mix of Saad and Shaw". What does that even mean, bud? It's like saying Dano is a mix of Toews and St.Louis because he has some similar characteristics.

He's strong on his stick - Toews
Has a good low center of gravity - St.Louis
Is a good playmaker - St.Louis
Plays both ends of the ice - Toews

Does anyone really think Dano is comparable to either player? Not really. Saying he's "kinda a combination of both" is dumb.

 

[CallMeShaft]

It shouldn't be too hard to decipher what type of player I mean when I say Dano is a mix between Shaw and Saad. It's not hard to imagine a player who is a blend of those two playing styles. In fact, Marchand is a great example of that type of player.

Dano is not a playmaker like Panarin is. Panarin has never been strong defensively, and will likely never be a big contributor on the PK. Why you think Dano is a similar player to Panera-bread is beyond me.

 

[HockeySauce]

It shouldn't be too hard to decipher what type of player I mean when I say Dano is a mix between Shaw and Saad. It's not hard to imagine a player who is a blend of those two playing styles. In fact, Marchand is a great example of that type of player.

Dano is not a playmaker like Panarin is. Panarin has never been strong defensively, and will likely never be a big contributor on the PK. Why you think Dano is a similar player to Panera-bread is beyond me.

And of course, you've seen both players countless times. God damn.

You could literally say any player is kinda like a mix between any two players.

Dano is a high-skill player. The strongest parts of his game are his offensive abilities: his hands, his playmaking, his shot. It's for those reasons he's closer to Panarin and TT than some imagined hybrid between Saad and Shaw.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Okay whatever, forget I said anything...

I was feeling bad about derailing the Sharp trade thread anyway (though Sharp's probably feeling worse at the moment).

 

[Blackhawks4life]

Sharp obviously did not return what fans and even management thought we could get but there is so much bashing on this board. Stan obviously knows what he is doing and has other moves lined up. I'm a sharp fan and it sucks to see him go but we flipped a contract for a D in Daley that fits how we play and has a low cap hit for a #4. These are the same things that were said about JO when we traded for him and signed him. Daley as a 4 is just fine!! Johns is obviously a long term hit but I guess we shall see how he turns out. Teams can feast on the hawks like they did in 2010 and 2013. It's a luxury when we have all this talent; however it hurts us when we are up against the cap and don't get market value.

We won 3 cups in 6 years and an OT goal away from a 3peat and 4 in 6 and theres people whining and complaining about things. Become a leafs fan and feel their pain; better yet look what boston has done with salary cap problems. Seguin, Hamilton, Lucic, Boychuk, traded for what?

We have a core and will be right there next year again and for years to come.

It's so easy saying to trade for this guy or do this, do that. Do you not think Stan is trying to do what is best for the team? Bicks will be gone as well as others. Coming off a cup win; I just don't get the negative comments. I would rather try to win this year then rolling the dice, getting prospects or draft picks.

 

[hawksfan50]

Dano is said to be a 2 way player...Panarin is not a lazy one-way player in the classic sense that Patrick Kane sometimes is when he is disinterested and prone to cheating staying high for transitions the other way...Rather Panarin does come back and try to back-check ...but he does not hold the check long enough in body to body strength contesting and so a stronger player can muscle past him and get free to attack and unless Panarin can recover with the stick-check the opponent could get some scoring chance opportunities..The difference is that Kane sometimes does not even bother trying to check...sometimes he does but many times he does not...whereas Panarin will always try go check...he just is not great at doing it effectively ...so you need a good defensive 2 way centre to help him out...Maybe if the Hawks can bulk up Panarin a bit more he would be more effective on the
back-check and close-offs on guys coming off the boards in the d-zone to attack the net...He is much better on the forecheck where speed to the loose puck and quick stick determine possession more than pure strength.. But he us not lazy like Kane can be...he will hustle back and try to back-check..but he will lose battles due to lack of pure strength.

Dano is better in winning checking battles in the neutral and d-zone ...a better back-checker on technique and strength battles ...and so on the board battles in both zones.









.

 

[hawksfan50]

You know today the hot stove bloggers at hockeybuzz.com debated if the Hawks got enough return for Sharp...as we do here...

But funny how the persective of impartial non-Hawks fans are on this..all the debate was either on the merits of Dailey and Garbutt for Sharp or on whether the Hawks cleared enough cap with this deal...NOTHING about JOHNS! Did not even mention his name ...as if he was a nothing throw -in to the deal..Whereas on the Hawks boards here we fans debate the liss 8f Johns as the Primary reason we lose in this deal...if not immediately...for far more seasons down the line and for this reason alone this was a bad deal...Yes Stan will be triumphant if we win another Cup in the next 2 years...Maybe Dallas will still not win a Cup in the next 10 years...but we fear that down the line...Once Keith Seabrook and whatever over-emphasis on aging vet Dmen in our D-group ALL hit past peak if we do not have the correct balance of vet to younger Dmen at that time ...it will doom us ...So if we one day find we have 4 of our starting 6 D-men over age 32 and one at 29 and just one under 25-26 ...then you know the window of success will spoon be closing in 2-3 years from that point..Well that point is just 2 years away meaning we are doomed 5 years out unless yoyounger blood to the top 4 is inserted with the talent to be a n effective top 4 ..You simply cannot bank on top much of your relied on d-corps to get old all at the same time except for just one or two..This will come back to haunt us...

 

[HawksBeerFan]

And of course, you've seen both players countless times. God damn.

You could literally say any player is kinda like a mix between any two players.

Dano is a high-skill player. The strongest parts of his game are his offensive abilities: his hands, his playmaking, his shot. It's for those reasons he's closer to Panarin and TT than some imagined hybrid between Saad and Shaw.

Pot kettle black

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Was watching the Hawks-Preds rerun on Comcast, holy cow the team next year will look so much different.