Checking in on the 2017 Red Wings Draft

[lomekian]

I think a number of us were curious about the mid round picks last year.

Ras will be an NHL-er injuries permitting...we just don't know if he'll be a 1st, 2nd or 3rd liner as all 3 possibilities are on the table longer term.
Lindstrom is a solid guy that scouts and coaches like and should get a chance at the NHL - the questions is will he be a #4 or a #6? Making decent if not exciting progress.
Kotkansalo is hard to get a handle on - scouts seem to like him, but his output is hardly promising
Zablocki looked like they were hoping for Tyler Bertuzzi #2, but he's gone the opposite way. Since being traded its been a disaster for him.
Gallant is a consistent shut down center. He needs to up his point production next year, but for perspective, he's ahead of where Glendenning was at the same point in time. He was always projected to be a likely 4th liner, so no time to panic yet.
Petruzzelli was hailed as a steal and then had an awful start, but seems to be adjusting to the higher level now. I personally never look at goalie stats until they are at least draft +1, unless they have amazing numbers or beyond awful ones. In his case, his size and changing leagues was always going to lead to a slow start
Setkov - decent toolset, making decent progress, was always going to be a project that would take time.
Fraser is another example of the wings drafting a hard nut but one without a promising skillset. He seemed a long shot to me at the time, and seems more so now.
Adams just a punt on a guy with size who suddenly found his game from nowhere - 1st year college kids often struggle a bit, so no real conclusions yet - after all David Pope looked a wasted pick until about 18 months ago, and now we want to sign him.
Webb was an uber-punt. Really didn't understand this one, and still don't. The guy has had so many injuries, it was always likely that he'd struggle this year.
Gilmour - for a 7th rounder, the pick wasn't bad, but he has gone backwards sadly - particularly in the last month or so where his production has black-holed

 

[SaginawFan]

I can only speak on behalf of Webb and Gilmour as I watch them play every night.

Webb is a big, non flashy defensive. He has played very well in Saginaw and provides a tough role. As said, he is big, no high end skill, but very mean. His interest in points is not his focus, he is just a steady player with no flash. You go an entire game without noticing him. I don't think he will be signed, but I do think he is better than most are saying.

Gilmour has been injured for about 6 weeks. Again, smaller guy at 5'10 and 180, but the heart of a lion. He hasn't had the luxury of most kids and play with high end players. He is on the youngest OHL team and doesn't see pp very much as it's obvious his style of play doesn't fit with the coach. He is a pass first type of player, and does everything right! He will never be a high point guy, but every team should have a Gilmour, true leader and makes players around him better. Good chance he is signed before June 2019 if he can fully recover from the injury. Far much better and valuable than stats show, and Detroit knows that as they are here in Saginaw lots. Look at team stats since his injury, very noticeable.

 

[Henkka]

They drafted these extra lower round guys because of their character, to push other prospects at future training camps/Griffins by creating a certain competitive environment. Tyler Wright and Håkan Andersson kind of clearly said that. They "wasted" this weak draft after higher picks for this purpose. Andersson did also say, on next draft they will concentrate again on skill, like they did with Cholowski, Hronek and Saarijärvi etc at earlier drafts. So, in the big picture, these guys purpose is to make other prospects better on the long run. There's more than just their individual effort at current junior team on the play.

They whole drafting ideology goes deeper than anybody in here seems to understand.

 

[TheMule93]

That's the worst draft strategy I've ever heard

I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion lol

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

They drafted these extra lower round guys because of their character, to push other prospects at future training camps/Griffins by creating a certain competitive environment.

Wouldn't drafting players who are actually good at hockey create more competition than drafting hard-working, low-skill guys who will never make it? And who are they pushing? It seems like the Wings have yet to draft those players. I don't see the value add here.

So they wasted basically an entire draft on what is essentially training camp padding? Couldn't they invite guys and do the same thing? The drafted guys are hard-working, but not skilled. Invitees are also hard-working, but not skilled. What's the gain?

This strategy makes no sense at all. It's a net loss no matter how you look at it. Like I get that you're trying to find meaning in the failure here, but this is a really implausible explanation. The Wings are not playing 4D chess. They might not even be capable. The much more reasonable interpretation is that the Wings intend for these guys to be valuable roster players and are seemingly failing miserably.

 

[lomekian]

Wouldn't drafting players who are actually good at hockey create more competition than drafting hard-working, low-skill guys who will never make it? And who are they pushing? It seems like the Wings have yet to draft those players. I don't see the value add here.

So they wasted basically an entire draft on what is essentially training camp padding? Couldn't they invite guys and do the same thing? The drafted guys are hard-working, but not skilled. Invitees are also hard-working, but not skilled. What's the gain?

This strategy makes no sense at all. It's a net loss no matter how you look at it. Like I get that you're trying to find meaning in the failure here, but this is a really implausible explanation. The Wings are not playing 4D chess. They might not even be capable. The much more reasonable interpretation is that the Wings intend for these guys to be valuable roster players and are seemingly failing miserably.

That's the worst draft strategy I've ever heard

I have nothing constructive to add to this discussion lol

One would presume they are also hoping some of the guys in question take a step forward or at least have a Glendenning like trajectory which allows them to develop into something of value.

 

[RedWingzz]

They drafted these extra lower round guys because of their character, to push other prospects at future training camps/Griffins by creating a certain competitive environment. Tyler Wright and Håkan Andersson kind of clearly said that. They "wasted" this weak draft after higher picks for this purpose. Andersson did also say, on next draft they will concentrate again on skill, like they did with Cholowski, Hronek and Saarijärvi etc at earlier drafts. So, in the big picture, these guys purpose is to make other prospects better on the long run. There's more than just their individual effort at current junior team on the play.

They whole drafting ideology goes deeper than anybody in here seems to understand.

Uhhh...excuse me?

"Let's draft terrible players with character in order to help push our future draft picks next year!"

Why not just draft good players to begin with?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

we need new scouts

Yep i think Jim Nill took the best ones with him to Dallas.

 

[TheMule93]

I havent read all the interviews but if our scouting department really said that that was their strategy, i can only facepalm. Really, you drafted a bunch of good characters to provide high-fives and encouragement to your previous draft classes during training camps? ok

 

[Henkka]

They said on a video right after the draft. And videos were on some HSJ article.

Another source was some Art Regner radio podcast at last summer.

 

[BinCookin]

They said on a video right after the draft. And videos were on some HSJ article.

Another source was some Art Regner radio podcast at last summer.

if you can find any of those sources, that would be fun.

I mean i could see detroit picking several players like:

-tough Defensive D man
-rugged 3rd/4th line checker

and one can describe these guys as low skill. But all teams need them.

Maybe thats what they mean?

 

[DanStewart]

With the exception of HA over in Sweden, I think Detroit's scouting staff is slipped into the bottom half of the league now with all the long tenured names that had pull at the draft table leave in the past few seasons. While this group will draft NHL players in the early rounds I think the days of mining the later rounds for talent are done with the group of guys making the calls today. Lets look at who the Wings could have picked in 2017 instead of who they did select.

9th overall F Michael Rasmussen - Considering the need on defense they could have traded back from 9th and added D Callan Foote (TB), D Erik Brannstrom (LV), D Timothy Liljegren (TOR) or D Nicolas Hague (LV). But in saying that I understand the "take the scorer with size with a high pick" mentality. Grade B-

38th overall D Gustav Lindstrom - Went with a need which I am good with here but other options included G Michael DiPietro (VAN), F Aleksi Heponiemi (FLA), D Ian Mitchell (CHI), D Max Gildon (FLA), or F Maxime Comtois (ANA). Grade C

71st overall Kasper Kotkansalo - I liked this pick as Kotkansalo is a solid, smart blue liner with strong leadership skill and could really help stabilize the Wings blueline down the road. Could have taken a skill guy like F Alexei Lipanov (TB) instead but I am not against this pick. Grade B+

79th overall Lane Zablocki and 83rd overall Zach Gallant - Here is where the wheels fell off for me when they used two third round picks looking for some grit. Should have added more positional need defenders guys like D Cale Fleury (MTL) or D Reilly Walsh (NJ) or took a swing at puck movers from the backend with higher upside like D David Farrance (NASH) or D Clayton Phillips (PIT). They even had the option to add some bigger forwards like F Scott Reedy (SJ), F Matt Strome (PHI) or F Adam Ruzicka (CAL) with these two picks. Grade F

88th overall Keith Petruzelli - This pick was also one I thought was decent. Give him some time and he could be another Matt Murray type. Grade B+

100th overall Malte Setkov - Not a bad pick if you do not look at where they picked him. At this point they could have scooped up guys like F Drake Batherson (OTT), F Ostap Safin (EDM) or D David Noel (STL). Grade D

131st overall Cole Fraser - A bad pick from the get go. Not going to spend much time but to say they could have drafted G Olle Eriksson Ek (ANA), D Jarret Tyszka (MTL), or F Noah Cates (PHI). Grade F

162nd overall John Adams and 164th overall Reilly Webb - Wright's love of size got in the way of making actual skill based selections with these two. Add in the last pick 193rd overall Brady Gilmour who was not a bad stab in the dark but still there were other options with these last three selections that would have been better. Could have drafted a potential stud G Cayden Primeau (MTL), or guys like F Kirill Slepets and D Artyom Minulin who went undrafted but has so much skill and/or upside. Grade D-

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but this missing on picks has become a tend over the last couple drafts.

2016
1st round - Could have added instant top-4 defender Jakob Chychrun instead of projects Cholowski and Hronek (and dumping Datsyuk's contract and in turn the signing of Nielsen's stupid contract).
2nd round - Could have added one of Samuel Girard or Kale Clague or even Filip Hronek instead of G. Smith.

2015
1st round - Could have had current NHLers Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Jack Roslovic or Noah Juulsen instead of E. Svechnikov.

2014 - The Larkin draft so they did hit on their first rounder.
3rd round traded up to grab Turgeon when they could have taken smaller but skilled Brayden Point who is lighting it up with Tampa (pun intended).

 

[Roy S]

It seemed like an underwhelming draft at the time and it still feels that way. Ras will play in the NHL for sure (barring injury) and at worst be a quality role player. I'm not that confident about anyone else.

 

[Pavels Dog]

With the exception of HA over in Sweden, I think Detroit's scouting staff is slipped into the bottom half of the league now with all the long tenured names that had pull at the draft table leave in the past few seasons. While this group will draft NHL players in the early rounds I think the days of mining the later rounds for talent are done with the group of guys making the calls today. Lets look at who the Wings could have picked in 2017 instead of who they did select.

9th overall F Michael Rasmussen - Considering the need on defense they could have traded back from 9th and added D Callan Foote (TB), D Erik Brannstrom (LV), D Timothy Liljegren (TOR) or D Nicolas Hague (LV). But in saying that I understand the "take the scorer with size with a high pick" mentality. Grade B-

38th overall D Gustav Lindstrom - Went with a need which I am good with here but other options included G Michael DiPietro (VAN), F Aleksi Heponiemi (FLA), D Ian Mitchell (CHI), D Max Gildon (FLA), or F Maxime Comtois (ANA). Grade C

71st overall Kasper Kotkansalo - I liked this pick as Kotkansalo is a solid, smart blue liner with strong leadership skill and could really help stabilize the Wings blueline down the road. Could have taken a skill guy like F Alexei Lipanov (TB) instead but I am not against this pick. Grade B+

79th overall Lane Zablocki and 83rd overall Zach Gallant - Here is where the wheels fell off for me when they used two third round picks looking for some grit. Should have added more positional need defenders guys like D Cale Fleury (MTL) or D Reilly Walsh (NJ) or took a swing at puck movers from the backend with higher upside like D David Farrance (NASH) or D Clayton Phillips (PIT). They even had the option to add some bigger forwards like F Scott Reedy (SJ), F Matt Strome (PHI) or F Adam Ruzicka (CAL) with these two picks. Grade F

88th overall Keith Petruzelli - This pick was also one I thought was decent. Give him some time and he could be another Matt Murray type. Grade B+

100th overall Malte Setkov - Not a bad pick if you do not look at where they picked him. At this point they could have scooped up guys like F Drake Batherson (OTT), F Ostap Safin (EDM) or D David Noel (STL). Grade D

131st overall Cole Fraser - A bad pick from the get go. Not going to spend much time but to say they could have drafted G Olle Eriksson Ek (ANA), D Jarret Tyszka (MTL), or F Noah Cates (PHI). Grade F

162nd overall John Adams and 164th overall Reilly Webb - Wright's love of size got in the way of making actual skill based selections with these two. Add in the last pick 193rd overall Brady Gilmour who was not a bad stab in the dark but still there were other options with these last three selections that would have been better. Could have drafted a potential stud G Cayden Primeau (MTL), or guys like F Kirill Slepets and D Artyom Minulin who went undrafted but has so much skill and/or upside. Grade D-

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but this missing on picks has become a tend over the last couple drafts.

2016
1st round - Could have added instant top-4 defender Jakob Chychrun instead of projects Cholowski and Hronek (and dumping Datsyuk's contract and in turn the signing of Nielsen's stupid contract).
2nd round - Could have added one of Samuel Girard or Kale Clague or even Filip Hronek instead of G. Smith.

2015
1st round - Could have had current NHLers Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Jack Roslovic or Noah Juulsen instead of E. Svechnikov.

2014 - The Larkin draft so they did hit on their first rounder.
3rd round traded up to grab Turgeon when they could have taken smaller but skilled Brayden Point who is lighting it up with Tampa (pun intended).

The thing is you're still EXTREMELY early in measuring those drafts. I won't even get into the '17 draft since literally everyone you mention that we could have had instead are still just as much up in the air as our own picks.

"Instant top 4D Chychrun" has 11 points and is pacing pretty much exactly like what he did last season. If you listen to AZ fans many also question his defensive abilities. Maybe he's a #4D.. and maybe that's all he'll ever be. Cholowski and/or Hronek could end up superior. Givani Smith MAY be a mistake, but he's also the kind of player that doesn't need to score at a high rate in order to stay an NHL potential player .

Svechnikov might be a bad pick, but probably deserves at least next year in order to see how much the injuries hampered him this year.

Missing Point in 2014 is one of those things... how many teams missed him? I'm sure Tampa knew exactly what they were doing with DeAngelo, Masin and Macleod in the first 2 rounds. They had one good pick that draft and it was Point. Lucky accidents happen, hopefully we get one too.

 

[obey86]

With the exception of HA over in Sweden, I think Detroit's scouting staff is slipped into the bottom half of the league now with all the long tenured names that had pull at the draft table leave in the past few seasons. While this group will draft NHL players in the early rounds I think the days of mining the later rounds for talent are done with the group of guys making the calls today. Lets look at who the Wings could have picked in 2017 instead of who they did select.

9th overall F Michael Rasmussen - Considering the need on defense they could have traded back from 9th and added D Callan Foote (TB), D Erik Brannstrom (LV), D Timothy Liljegren (TOR) or D Nicolas Hague (LV). But in saying that I understand the "take the scorer with size with a high pick" mentality. Grade B-

38th overall D Gustav Lindstrom - Went with a need which I am good with here but other options included G Michael DiPietro (VAN), F Aleksi Heponiemi (FLA), D Ian Mitchell (CHI), D Max Gildon (FLA), or F Maxime Comtois (ANA). Grade C

71st overall Kasper Kotkansalo - I liked this pick as Kotkansalo is a solid, smart blue liner with strong leadership skill and could really help stabilize the Wings blueline down the road. Could have taken a skill guy like F Alexei Lipanov (TB) instead but I am not against this pick. Grade B+

79th overall Lane Zablocki and 83rd overall Zach Gallant - Here is where the wheels fell off for me when they used two third round picks looking for some grit. Should have added more positional need defenders guys like D Cale Fleury (MTL) or D Reilly Walsh (NJ) or took a swing at puck movers from the backend with higher upside like D David Farrance (NASH) or D Clayton Phillips (PIT). They even had the option to add some bigger forwards like F Scott Reedy (SJ), F Matt Strome (PHI) or F Adam Ruzicka (CAL) with these two picks. Grade F

88th overall Keith Petruzelli - This pick was also one I thought was decent. Give him some time and he could be another Matt Murray type. Grade B+

100th overall Malte Setkov - Not a bad pick if you do not look at where they picked him. At this point they could have scooped up guys like F Drake Batherson (OTT), F Ostap Safin (EDM) or D David Noel (STL). Grade D

131st overall Cole Fraser - A bad pick from the get go. Not going to spend much time but to say they could have drafted G Olle Eriksson Ek (ANA), D Jarret Tyszka (MTL), or F Noah Cates (PHI). Grade F

162nd overall John Adams and 164th overall Reilly Webb - Wright's love of size got in the way of making actual skill based selections with these two. Add in the last pick 193rd overall Brady Gilmour who was not a bad stab in the dark but still there were other options with these last three selections that would have been better. Could have drafted a potential stud G Cayden Primeau (MTL), or guys like F Kirill Slepets and D Artyom Minulin who went undrafted but has so much skill and/or upside. Grade D-

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but this missing on picks has become a tend over the last couple drafts.

2016
1st round - Could have added instant top-4 defender Jakob Chychrun instead of projects Cholowski and Hronek (and dumping Datsyuk's contract and in turn the signing of Nielsen's stupid contract).
2nd round - Could have added one of Samuel Girard or Kale Clague or even Filip Hronek instead of G. Smith.

2015
1st round - Could have had current NHLers Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Jack Roslovic or Noah Juulsen instead of E. Svechnikov.

2014 - The Larkin draft so they did hit on their first rounder.
3rd round traded up to grab Turgeon when they could have taken smaller but skilled Brayden Point who is lighting it up with Tampa (pun intended).

Don't get why people here have this obsession with Jakob Chychrun and think he's a good player right now. Might he be better than Cholowski and/or Hronek in the long run? Absolutely. Has he done anything to this point for anyone to have an answer to that question right now? Absolutely not.

He was a high floor ready to play immediately/low ceiling type of player going into the draft according to most and he hasn't yet done anything to change that perception.

 

[Frk It]

We will miss out on guys like Brayden Point as long as Tyler Wright is here, unless he switches things up a bit. He doesn’t draft that type of player nearly often enough to actually hit on one.

 

[Run the Jewels]

They whole drafting ideology goes deeper than anybody in here seems to understand.

I gotta admit that I never really understood the stealth tank.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Don't get why people here have this obsession with Jakob Chychrun and think he's a good player right now. Might he be better than Cholowski and/or Hronek in the long run? Absolutely. Has he done anything to this point for anyone to have an answer to that question right now? Absolutely not.

He was a high floor ready to play immediately/low ceiling type of player going into the draft according to most and he hasn't yet done anything to change that perception.

Phoenix fans are really pleased with Chychrun. It also highlights the many awful decisions Holland has made to try to remain competitive. It's been s total failure and it's setting back the eventual rebuild.

 

[Frk It]

Phoenix fans are really pleased with Chychrun. It also highlights the many awful decisions Holland has made to try to remain competitive. It's been s total failure and it's setting back the eventual rebuild.

I was bullish on that McAvoy/Chychrun/Fabbro trio that year, and I still believe in those kids. But the progression of Chychrun and Hronek helps me be at peace with that trade at this point. I don't think that particular trade will be why the re-build fails if the re-build fails at this point in time.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

With the exception of HA over in Sweden, I think Detroit's scouting staff is slipped into the bottom half of the league now with all the long tenured names that had pull at the draft table leave in the past few seasons. While this group will draft NHL players in the early rounds I think the days of mining the later rounds for talent are done with the group of guys making the calls today. Lets look at who the Wings could have picked in 2017 instead of who they did select.

9th overall F Michael Rasmussen - Considering the need on defense they could have traded back from 9th and added D Callan Foote (TB), D Erik Brannstrom (LV), D Timothy Liljegren (TOR) or D Nicolas Hague (LV). But in saying that I understand the "take the scorer with size with a high pick" mentality. Grade B-

38th overall D Gustav Lindstrom - Went with a need which I am good with here but other options included G Michael DiPietro (VAN), F Aleksi Heponiemi (FLA), D Ian Mitchell (CHI), D Max Gildon (FLA), or F Maxime Comtois (ANA). Grade C

71st overall Kasper Kotkansalo - I liked this pick as Kotkansalo is a solid, smart blue liner with strong leadership skill and could really help stabilize the Wings blueline down the road. Could have taken a skill guy like F Alexei Lipanov (TB) instead but I am not against this pick. Grade B+

79th overall Lane Zablocki and 83rd overall Zach Gallant - Here is where the wheels fell off for me when they used two third round picks looking for some grit. Should have added more positional need defenders guys like D Cale Fleury (MTL) or D Reilly Walsh (NJ) or took a swing at puck movers from the backend with higher upside like D David Farrance (NASH) or D Clayton Phillips (PIT). They even had the option to add some bigger forwards like F Scott Reedy (SJ), F Matt Strome (PHI) or F Adam Ruzicka (CAL) with these two picks. Grade F

88th overall Keith Petruzelli - This pick was also one I thought was decent. Give him some time and he could be another Matt Murray type. Grade B+

100th overall Malte Setkov - Not a bad pick if you do not look at where they picked him. At this point they could have scooped up guys like F Drake Batherson (OTT), F Ostap Safin (EDM) or D David Noel (STL). Grade D

131st overall Cole Fraser - A bad pick from the get go. Not going to spend much time but to say they could have drafted G Olle Eriksson Ek (ANA), D Jarret Tyszka (MTL), or F Noah Cates (PHI). Grade F

162nd overall John Adams and 164th overall Reilly Webb - Wright's love of size got in the way of making actual skill based selections with these two. Add in the last pick 193rd overall Brady Gilmour who was not a bad stab in the dark but still there were other options with these last three selections that would have been better. Could have drafted a potential stud G Cayden Primeau (MTL), or guys like F Kirill Slepets and D Artyom Minulin who went undrafted but has so much skill and/or upside. Grade D-

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but this missing on picks has become a tend over the last couple drafts.

2016
1st round - Could have added instant top-4 defender Jakob Chychrun instead of projects Cholowski and Hronek (and dumping Datsyuk's contract and in turn the signing of Nielsen's stupid contract).
2nd round - Could have added one of Samuel Girard or Kale Clague or even Filip Hronek instead of G. Smith.

2015
1st round - Could have had current NHLers Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Jack Roslovic or Noah Juulsen instead of E. Svechnikov.

2014 - The Larkin draft so they did hit on their first rounder.
3rd round traded up to grab Turgeon when they could have taken smaller but skilled Brayden Point who is lighting it up with Tampa (pun intended).

With hindsight the Wings could have drafted better? You don't f***ing say.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I gotta admit that I never really understood the stealth tank.