Player Discussion Charlie Coyle

[nickschultzfan]

Coyle is a fine player, but Fletcher and almost every pundent said he was going to be this amazing power forward. And he showed plenty of flashes. And power forwards are often late bloomers.

But he might just be a middle 6, RHS forward. And that is ok. Contenders need depth.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

You're the guy who called Zucker a 4th liner , so look in the mirror before you post.

I'd like to see where I said that, for real. I assigned him a middle-six rating back in 2010 for Hockey's Future and he has surpassed that, to his credit, for this team. I do think Zucker is a poor value contract waiting to happen and I base that opinion on watching him play, plus looking at the statistical evidence.

 

[2Pair]

The problem is: Ennis's nothing still costs $4.6 million.

My issue with Coyle is he's one of the usual suspects who doesn't perform. For 70% of the season he is invisible. His reputation of being a good player and someone who could break out is built on a handful of games per season. That's just not good enough for me to justify keeping him on this roster.

Coyle getting consistant time with Nino and Staal last year put up 60 points. This year he spent most of the season with guys like Cullen, Eriksson Ek, Foligno, Winnik, and Ennis on the 3rd line, had to deal with a broken leg, and still paced for 46 points over 82 games.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Coyle got neutered by the NHL when they kept slapping him with fines.

 

[HollaHaula]

I'd like to see where I said that, for real. I assigned him a middle-six rating back in 2010 for Hockey's Future and he has surpassed that, to his credit, for this team. I do think Zucker is a poor value contract waiting to happen and I base that opinion on watching him play, plus looking at the statistical evidence.

I have to agree with this and I'm hesitant to pay Zucker big money. He's got speed, which is what we need, but he's not the type of player that wants the puck on his stick and will take over a game. His game revolves around going to where the puck will be/cleaning up loose change and getting open to shoot. If he's off his game then it's like he's not getting the puck at all. He's got a good shot but, it's not world class. His shooting percentage this year was also a career high at 14.9%.

I see Zucker as a very good complimentary player but not a core piece. I've always thought that if he had an elite center (similar to Staal this year) Zucker would be more dangerous. I believe that is what we saw this year. He's not the driver of a line.

 

[TaLoN]

I have to agree with this and I'm hesitant to pay Zucker big money. He's got speed, which is what we need, but he's not the type of player that wants the puck on his stick and will take over a game. His game revolves around going to where the puck will be/cleaning up loose change and getting open to shoot. If he's off his game then it's like he's not getting the puck at all. He's got a good shot but, it's not world class. His shooting percentage this year was also a career high at 14.9%.

I see Zucker as a very good complimentary player but not a core piece. I've always thought that if he had an elite center (similar to Staal this year) Zucker would be more dangerous. I believe that is what we saw this year. He's not the driver of a line.

So trade with his value at an all time high?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So trade with his value at an all time high?

Sure, we have plenty of 30+ goal scorers to take his place...

 

[HollaHaula]

So trade with his value at an all time high?

I'd like to retool since I'm tired of the same result every year so, yes. I would be in favor. It's a shame he doesn't have another year left on his contract but, we could still get a good return for his rights.

 

[63firebird]

Not sure what you do with Zucker but big bodies with a scoring touch is better than small fast perimeter players that are opportunistic. Zucker is okay at getting a stretch pass and trying to cut in but as the playoffs start the D just push him to the ice as he has no weight. To win in playoffs you need speed and some size. I would put a cap at Granlund to dish. That’s enough small guys. Granny can win corner battles where Zucker is only effective in open ice which disappears in the playoffs.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Not sure what you do with Zucker but big bodies with a scoring touch is better than small fast perimeter players that are opportunistic. Zucker is okay at getting a stretch pass and trying to cut in but as the playoffs start the D just push him to the ice as he has no weight. To win in playoffs you need speed and some size. I would put a cap at Granlund to dish. That’s enough small guys. Granny can win corner battles where Zucker is only effective in open ice which disappears in the playoffs.

Top 9 forwards, under 6 feet: Granlund, Parise, Zucker
Top 9 forwards, 6'2" and over: Staal, Coyle, Nino, Koivu, Greenway, Eriksson Ek

Top 9 forwards that can be considered "speedy": Zucker
Top 9 forwards to which you be hesitant to list "speed" as a top 3 trait: everyone else

 

[DANOZ28]

not sure why were talking zucker in a coyle thread but atleast 20 other teams would want zucker on their roster so noway do we get him on a less than 5 mill contract. if i was zuckers agent i'd say trade me dont insult me! coyle only 11G vs rookie tuch 15G no big contract heading his way.

 

[Bazeek]

Well there's your problem:

Nino: 25G-32A-57P in his contract year
Granlund: 23G-43A-69P in his contract year
Zucker: 33G-31A-64P in his contract year

We just signed Coyle for too long. Come 2019-20 he'll put up 60-65 points easy!

 

[HollaHaula]

Well there's your problem:

Nino: 25G-32A-57P in his contract year
Granlund: 23G-43A-69P in his contract year
Zucker: 33G-31A-64P in his contract year

We just signed Coyle for too long. Come 2019-20 he'll put up 60-65 points easy!

We'll extend the entire roster so that everyone's contract ends on the same year. Then, after we win the Cup, we let the whole team walk.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Dude broke his $%^&^& leg and never caught up.

I expect next year will be better. I trust his integrity and work-ethic.

 

[TaLoN]

Dude broke his $%^&^& leg and never caught up.

I expect next year will be better. I trust his integrity and work-ethic.

I see a guy who is playing today the same as he played last year February and March. He played all season like this, and finished the last few months of last season like this.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Coyle_

I think he is a good piece to move, great contract and has some upside still.

Life...

I am getting closer and closer to a (half) rebuild. Making the playoffs 6 years in a row is great but when you never make it past the 2nd round, then it's irrelevant after some time.

 

[TaLoN]

Coyle_

I think he is a good piece to move, great contract and has some upside still.

Life...

I am getting closer and closer to a (half) rebuild. Making the playoffs 6 years in a row is great but when you never make it past the 2nd round, then it's irrelevant after some time.

He's on a friendly contract, but trading him now would be selling low. Last season was the season to move him if you wanted to get a good return, this season the market will have dried up quite a bit.

Zucker is the sell high option.

 

[TheeNorthStar]

Trade this man tomorrow.

 

[NHL1674]

He's on a friendly contract, but trading him now would be selling low. Last season was the season to move him if you wanted to get a good return, this season the market will have dried up quite a bit.

Zucker is the sell high option.

Problem is so many have been upset all year watching Haula score goals. So imagine what will happen when Zucker gets moved and is still scoring. I know we need a shake-up, and I know he hasn't been good in the postseason. But a guy with his speed and scoring ability is something that I think we need to hang onto. We need a guy like him simply to even make the postseason. You need guys who can score in the regular season. I just don't see any other decent options to replace him.

 

[TaLoN]

Problem is so many have been upset all year watching Haula score goals. So imagine what will happen when Zucker gets moved and is still scoring. I know we need a shake-up, and I know he hasn't been good in the postseason. But a guy with his speed and scoring ability is something that I think we need to hang onto. We need a guy like him simply to even make the postseason. You need guys who can score in the regular season. I just don't see any other decent options to replace him.

We need to be willing to take a step backwards if we truly want to move forwards. Yes, losing Zucker would hurt, but if we get a young skilled player in return, one who has more than 1 tool in the toolbox (Let's be honest, it's Zucker's speed is the only thing he really brings to the table most of the time), or even in a package with Coyle for a high pick as well...

I am willing to take the hit in the near term regular season success if it means finally jump starting this team in 2-3yrs to actually have post season success.

 

[Bazeek]

Problem is so many have been upset all year watching Haula score goals. So imagine what will happen when Zucker gets moved and is still scoring. I know we need a shake-up, and I know he hasn't been good in the postseason. But a guy with his speed and scoring ability is something that I think we need to hang onto. We need a guy like him simply to even make the postseason. You need guys who can score in the regular season. I just don't see any other decent options to replace him.

While I agree that Zucker brings qualities that this team doesn't have easy replacements for, if his presence is the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs we're in more trouble than I thought.

 

[TaLoN]

While I agree that Zucker brings qualities that this team doesn't have easy replacements for, if his presence is the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs we're in more trouble than I thought.

We need to stop thinking about "making the playoffs" and start thinking about "winning in the playoffs".

Zucker has NEVER helped with that. I don't expect he will seeing how he played this year either. We need to sell now when his stock will NEVER be higher than it is today!

 

[Bazeek]

We need to stop thinking about "making the playoffs" and start thinking about "winning in the playoffs".

Zucker has NEVER helped with that. I don't expect he will seeing how he played this year either. We need to sell now when his stock will NEVER be higher than it is today!

That too. I'll happily risk missing for a year if it offers some sort of path forward.

 

[NHL1674]

Fine. But Coyle goes first. And we keep Nino! He's been good in the postseason with exception to this year. Again, was he hurt? That remains to be seen.

 

[TaLoN]

Fine. But Coyle goes first. And we keep Nino! He's been good in the postseason with exception to this year. Again, was he hurt? That remains to be seen.

I agree, I have faith that Nino can improve...

I also agree that Coyle should go as well, but moving Coyle alone isn't going to change much. I think if we can only move one, Zucker is the choice because he can get the most return atm, but if we can move both, it would be better.